UV Sterilizer - Opinions Needed

serpentman

part time superhero
I have recently convinced myself that I need a UV sterilizer (thanks Ben!). Now what I can't decipher is whether this is just my need to add one more expensive gadget to my already growing list or whether it will actually improve the quality of my system.

What prompted this is a few dime sized patches of wirey algae that I believe is some species of bryopsis. This isn't your typical hair algae as it won't even come out with tweezers so manual removal isn't even an option. Currently there is not enough to warrant panic and I think I narrowed down the potential source of nutrients. However it got me thinking that it probably wouldn't hurt to knock out any algae spores floating around.

I know there is some debate as to whether they kill off pods, etc. so I thought I would solicit opinions. Who here is using a UV sterilizer on their system?
 
I personally have been of the opinion that UV in a reef is something I don't wanna do, fish only depending I might consider. I think they probably kill at least as much good stuff as they do bad. IMO algaes like hair and bryopsis and such that grow on the rocks and substrates will see little to no reduction from the UV. Only thing that the UV would kill is spores or things passed thru it. UV works well for water column based algeas where the water has a tint to it because of it such as in a pond. Things like ick may be somewhat hindered due to the parasites in the water column passing thru it but again will not cure an ick problem and once again any good pod or critter going thru it will also likely meet the same fate.

As for bryopsis(and some other algeas I have read) from my experience and reading(calfo) one of the best methods for getting rid of it is high ph for a course of a few weeks.
 
I know I am probablly one of the only few that disagree, but I also can say I have the proof it works or maybe it just works for me. I run 2 large Uv sterilizers on my 300 Gallon system as serpentman has seen before. I agree with ShawnZ that it will not kill the hair algae already in the tank but I know it will kill the free floating spores and stop a possible outbreak. The only algae you can find in my tank is from cleaning off the glass due to the lights and the NURI strips I put in to feed my fish. You can't find any on my rocks anywhere!!!!!!Since I have had the sterilizers running I have never lost a fish due to ICK. I have 10 tangs in my tank and all look beautiful. It's true it's not a cure for ICK but they due kill it if it's in the water preventing my fish from getting it. I also haven't noticed a big loss in my pods. I am sure some may suffer that fate but probably as many that suffer getting into my overflow and passing through my filters only to be thrown out every month when I replace the filter pads. Lastly My tanks are crystal clear. I think they are a huge help in cleaning my water. I am not here saying right or wrong to anyone because to be honest I really don't know. All I know is I have 2 on my 300 Gallon and 1 on my 75 Gallon and I dont have ICK problems, Algae Problems, or cloudy/dirty water problems. Thats just my opinion right or wrong, but come check out my tank and see for yourself if you want from my experiences with them. I will also add it does get expensive replaceing the bulbs every year though. They are about $50 bucks each.
 
I doubt you are one of few that will disagree as I think there is many people that will agree with you. It is just one of those things that is so hard to pinpoint whether or not it is the fix or not. Many like yourself have seen effects of adding it that would seem to point at it is working while others just the opposite. It is just hard to know for sure which is right, and in some situations or tanks like yours just the sheer amount of fish like tangs that get ick easy may make the chance that it does work worth trying for ones self.
 
This is my dilemma as I tend to vacillate back and forth. I really haven't had any parasite issues (knock on wood) or planktonic algae issues so maybe I am borrowing trouble.

I think the source of the byopsis issue was stagnant water in my fuge. Detritus was building up and most likely adding DOC's to the water. Given that the unit I am considering is about $360, perhaps I'll hold off a while (and drop the dough on more corals!).
 
No ick, no algae, no UV here. Run enough macro in your fuge to take care of nitrates and use kalk to precipitate out phosphates and take care to not stir up your sand bed too much to launch silicates into your system... algae will not have any food to eat. Don't use cheap bulbs from Ebay with low par values and bad color. I've heard both sides of the debate quite a bit and researched heavily. I decided to opt out of the UV club.

Steve
 
One other thing to mention: I have a good friend who owns/runs a reef shop. He said UV can be like "antibiotics to a human." Use it once in a while only as a last resort. I would like to see the club pool resources to buy a UV unit, spectrometer, refractometer, oxygen meter, and a few other gadgets that we can rotate around C-Sea "as needed." Just a suggestion for the forum.
 
I agree with Shawn on the NEED for one. I love gadgets as much (if not more) than the next guy so I've wasted some time reading on them. From numbers I've seen most of these lose 60% of the bulb output in the first six months. To me that means you either need to get one overrated, or buy a lot of bulbs. Adds up quick to an initial investment of over $300 new plus electric/bulb replacement down the road. Just seems to me like money better spent elsewhere.
 
Bryopsis

Bryopsis

Shawn,

You mention raising ph to help with bryopsis problems. In your opinion what is the best way to do this as I already dose with kalk. Thanks

Paul
 
Usually I would say kalk but you are using it.... are you doing all top off as kalk or just some... what is your ph and alk? If you are not doing all can your tank handle more? If I recall Calfo said slowly raising ph and maintaining it at like 8.5 for a couple weeks does the trick. I have used it myself for this purpose and had it work
 
So the only one here recommending the UV is the guy that actually has experience using it & everyone against it's use has never used one?

I don't have any personal experience either & did a lot of research as well. As far as it killing indiscriminately........so what, skimmers do the same thing. UV isn't going to effect pod,bacteria, ect. populations.

There's some good info in this thread......
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1010554&highlight=uv+sterilizer
 
Ed,
He asked for opinions and knew that a lot of us don't use one. Much like most of reefkeeping you have to read what you can, and come to your own conclusion. Most articles, or informative posts I've seen say they are good disease/parasite control.


I agree with the your post in the thread you linked that an effective unit needs to be 60% overrated. He is looking at a $400-$600 investment, and has no disease/parasite issues.

We all know what feeds algae. I feel the $400-$600 could be better spent elsewhere in the system on nutrient export.

While I'm talking to you about nutrient export what do you say we trade skimmers for a month? :)
 
UV sterilizers are a great tool for water quality management, killing free-floating algae, and promoting sound fish and invert health. I don't believe that they have any significant negative effects on reef tanks. UV and ozone are beneficial in the fight against algae, but don't expect a night & day difference.

A well established system will have ample zooplankton in the display tank, so the few stray copepods & mysids that migrate from the refugium, aren't a big part of the fish and invert diet. The amount of food that we import daily is far greater. In addition to this, zooplankton rise out of the substrate at night to provide supplemental live food for corals. The contact time and wattage of the UV is likely to be insufficient to kill them, and their larger size may offer some additional protection.

Bryopsis is a bugger. It comes in on the base of Bali aquacultured SPS, and some bali corals. I've considered hacking off the frag plug when they come in, to break the cycle.

I don't remember encountering it before 2000; perhaps it was introduced with new collection sites or mariculture facilities in tidal areas. Before that, derbasia was the scourge of reef tanks. I prefer derbasia because it's less toxic, and therefore palatable for many fish and inverts. I haven't seen derbasia since bryopsis came on the scene, and assumed the role of house cyanobacteria. Incidents of red cyanobacteria have also dropped off dramatically.

Sometimes bad things happen to good tanks. Bryopsis is fueled by poor water quality, phosphate and high DOC and POC, but like any bacterial infection, it can strike indescriminantly. Once it gets a strong foothold, it is able to sustain its' population, independent of bulk water nutrients. As some parts recede, others flourish. Bacterial algae needs to be treated like any other bacterial infection, and fought on all levels.

One cause for bryopsis blooms is carbon fixing due to residual carbonic acid from calcium reactors. Check your CA reactor effluent.

I've heard reports of staving it off by starving it of nutrients, but I've heard just as many claims of it crashing in time on its' own. I believe these two claims to be one in the same. Time was the ultimate cure in each case, with a little help wherever possible.

There are many reports of lettuce nudibranchs and sea hares being employed to create a level playing field, but this has not been my experience. Physical removal seems to be the best catalyst to a cure. It tends to grow in different forms according to aquarium conditions. If you re lucky, it will grow from one small thallus at the base, but it looks like you have a more stubborn form. Part of the problem is that bryopsis has a unique ability to quickly seal itself off when severed.

Erythromycin doesn't affect it, but there is likely to be a reef safe antibiotic out there that will. I've been meaning to do some experiments with neomycin and chloramphenical to see if they aid in the battle. Once you get the population down to a minute amount, good water quality and low phosphates should leave no room for it in the ecosystem.

If you don't have a lot of coral, you could try removing them to another tank, and turn your display tank lights off for a week.

Unfortunately none of this advice adds up to a quick cure.
 
Hi Josh,

I hear ya on the the whole cost benefit issue. I wrestled with that one when I considered buying a UV unit. I was battling a few macro algaes which thrive in low nutrient systems. One being bubble aglae, which I can't stand. I tried syphoning the stuff up & it was a losing battle. I figured that if I at least was killing the spores with a UV the macro would be confined to the original rocks of origin & I could rid those small patches manually or with herbivores.

I ended up taking all the rock out & put it in dark tubs to eradicate most of it. Theres still some around, but at a much smaller amount.......and this is with my corals on egg crate racks & very little rock in the tank. I found urchins will scrap the small remnants left on the rock after manually cleaning it.

All my main rock is clean, but I don't want another outbreak of those macros, so I may still get a UV unit.

I think the main benefits are water clarity & killing algae spores.
You don't need carbon, rowa, or any other chemical removers, so theres a small cost savings. I think one could also use lights with less par if you have a clearer system. Dare I say even 175w halides..........I know some are doing it that have UV units. Fewer lights, shorter duration, & less heat would all be other cost savings.

I think these comments summed up some UV benefits well....
http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71014&highlight=UV+sterilizer

"It's a win-win cause bacterial levels in closed systems get rapidly skewed. Organically bound phosphates are highly reactive to UV and will be converted to water soluble phosphates which can be off-gassed in a skimmer. All chemical warfare chemicals produced by corals are also highly photo-reactive when exposed to UV and will break apart immediately. No one has to identify which pathogen they are dealing with, and you can be dealing with several at the same time. Not to mention which method of treatment for which pathogen because the treatments are as different as the pathogens are. If you guess the wrong pathogen and guess the wrong treatment you've wasted your time."
 
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Ed,
I've seen Bombers claim before that UV can break the o phos bond, but at the time I couldn't find any info to substantiate that claim. I have seen Randy Farley make statements like

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6968360#post6968360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
As to the organic phosphate breakdown hypothesis, let's just say that I am skeptical. :D

I didn't want to take it down this path, but I know the root of all of Jeff's problems. He has this big thick layer of sand on the bottom of his tank. You know it has to be full of poo!
 
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I think the whole thing between Bomber & Randy is chemists & biologists have different perspectives based on their expertise. There's certian things they'll never agree on.


I'd stick with micro-organism & algae control. That's all the leading brands claim.


Yep, must be the frags
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9212974#post9212974 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottfarcuz
I didn't want to take it down this path, but I know the root of all of Jeff's problems. He has this big thick layer of sand on the bottom of his tank. You know it has to be full of poo!

This coming from the guy with a white coral collection ...

Sorry, had to do it ;)

Does it always have to go to the I'm right and you are wrong path or can we just agree that you CAN do things differently and still get acceptable results. Like my "rule breaker tank" complete with 2" crushed coral substrate, undergravel filter with powerhead, 400w 20k MH over a 29G with 20L fuge packed full of macro and DSB. I think I was breaking about every rule in the new reefer's book but it worked. I kept maxima clams, BTAs and SPS.

:D
 
Ed,
I think if they agree it would rip a hole in the fabric that is time.

Kevin,
You do have to admit I display my kills proudly, and not keep them in my freezer like I'm Jeffrey Dahmer.

okikilledem.jpg


come on kev lets see a FFS (Full Freezer Shot) :)

p.s.- I just found out you aren't the only one with a "cold one" in the freezer
 
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