timrandlerv10
New member
how would one know if one's heterortrophs were indeed carbon limited?
And Ben...some call me...Tim.
And Ben...some call me...Tim.
Vodka dosing and a monoculture
- Thread starter rhinonm
- Start date
You must "guess" C/N ratio through No3 mesures...
And you´ll know if heterotrophic are under C limitation...
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/57/11/3255.pdf (30 seconds in charge, but link runs ok)
Very good the diferentiation made by mesocom between organic and inorganic N.
off topic...
Probably with 1-2 drops Vodka/100 L daily, everybody would got results like a commercial prebiotic product...
And you´ll know if heterotrophic are under C limitation...
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/57/11/3255.pdf (30 seconds in charge, but link runs ok)
Very good the diferentiation made by mesocom between organic and inorganic N.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12903554#post12903554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mesocosm
Nitrogen ... NOT nitrate ... is the critical variable. When the hardcore European reefkeepers who pioneered carbon-dosing strategies want to tweak the N variable in the C:Nratio, they don't reach for a nitrate compound. They reach for ammonium chloride, or a protein that will be metabolized into urea. When one wants to "cleanly" and efficiently tweak the pathways in a metabolic cascade, one should manipulate the reactants, enzymes, or substrates ... not the products.
off topic...
Probably with 1-2 drops Vodka/100 L daily, everybody would got results like a commercial prebiotic product...
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Forgetting C/N ratios and no3 measurements...
We can apologyze that autotrophic bacteria never are limitated by Carbon (inorganic),
if we give a little amount of a easily biodegradable carbon source, then the heterotrophic bacteria will run...
and this is based on comercial prebiotics can be used by everybody without no3 measurements...
3 things can kill with vodka (or other carbon sources).
The N or P limitation, the fast nutirents removals, or the changes in the bacterial-fungus hosts of the animals...
I'd be inclined to add depleted O2 to that list.
Since stopping the dosing I notice that I still have the stringy bacterial blooms.
FWIW, the potential for ugly bacterial mats is one reason that I do not recommend that folks using limewater use vinegar unless they really observe they need it for one of two reasons: excessive pH or not enough potency to the limewater. Enough folks have observed that to make it something to watch for.
The N or P limitation, the fast nutirents removals, or the changes in the bacterial-fungus hosts of the animals...
I'd be inclined to add depleted O2 to that list.
Since stopping the dosing I notice that I still have the stringy bacterial blooms.
FWIW, the potential for ugly bacterial mats is one reason that I do not recommend that folks using limewater use vinegar unless they really observe they need it for one of two reasons: excessive pH or not enough potency to the limewater. Enough folks have observed that to make it something to watch for.
bergzy
New member
YEP!
n and p fast removal is a real danger...thus, it is crucially important to do it very very very slowly. i reduced n and p over a period of a year.
depletion of O2 is also a big issue...that is why i only dose a very small quantity of 1 m twice a week (very very rarely three times a week and sometimes nothing at all) for 250g NET adjusted volume.
as for vinegar, i also would not dose it if using kalkwasser...i dont use kalkwaser thus i have no issues with vinegar use...again, in very small quantities of 1 ml twice a week (sometimes only once a week or none at all).
it is in my opinion only that vodka use is not for beginners...there are too many things that can easily go wrong.
Death Shrimp99
Member
How do you guys measure out volumes like 1ml? It's such a small amount that using a teaspoon would seem to be inaccurate because I just googled that 1ml = .2 teaspoons.
Just wondering how you guys put exactly 1 ml of vodka in your tank.
Just wondering how you guys put exactly 1 ml of vodka in your tank.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
I purchase syringes from the local farm store...they don't even question what you are doing with them like the drugstore. Some drugstores (depending on where you live) even make you have prescriptions for insulin (or other injected prescriptions) before you can buy syringes. The syringes I use are graduated in .2ml increments and go to 5ml. The other nice thing I like about using syringes is that you can get to the bottom of most containers 
I have my V/S/V mix in an old 16oz kent turbocalcium bottle that is fairly tall...no probs getting to the bottom though 
I have my V/S/V mix in an old 16oz kent turbocalcium bottle that is fairly tall...no probs getting to the bottom though 
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
V/S/V?
vodka, suger, vinager?
what ration is the mix?
Thanks Roger
vodka, suger, vinager?
what ration is the mix?
Thanks Roger
I wonder how they came up with that? As far as I know there is little to no published comparative data on what happens with different types of carbon sources.
OK, thanks. Pretty much just an assertion that they think it best, but at least they claim to have tested some other combinations. .
glassbox-design
New member
Far from what we think is best. As you know there will not be any hard data on this matter anytime soon, if ever. It's a combination that we have used that happens to works well for us, and has worked well for others that have tried it. Per the title, it was found through observation and plenty of experimentation.
If you did read the entire post, then you also would have noticed we frequently change the amounts. If it was the best, or perfect this would not be needed. Every tank is unique and changing and this is something that must be considered. It was never meant nor ever will be a solution to everyone's aquarium.
Thanks.
FWIW, the folks that originally cam up with vodka dosing also claimed to have tested many things and found it best. Have you compared the mix to vodka alone, and if so, what difference did you see?
FWIW, the folks that originally cam up with vodka dosing also claimed to have tested many things and found it best. Have you compared the mix to vodka alone, and if so, what difference did you see?
JCTewks
In Memoriam
Randy, the ratio I use is different than Glass-Box's....Mine is 375ml vodka, 20ml vinegar, and 5tbs sugar. I have not iused straight vodka, but I started dosing with straight sugar at 1 tsp/day...incredible results! N and P reduced in tank, ALL HA, cheato, and diatoms died from lack of nutrirnts, and the skimmer was pulling some NASTY dark skimate. I have since reached ULNS and am dosing the v/s/v mix to maintain ULN. One anecdotal observation is that the skimate was darker/smellier with the same skimmer setting when dosing straight sugar.
As e&f mentioned, mixes of v/s/v will/should change as the tank nutrients start to drop. IMO there is a fine balance that can be reached when using this multiple carbin source method that can'tbe tweaked as easy in the "all in one" off the shelf systems.
As e&f mentioned, mixes of v/s/v will/should change as the tank nutrients start to drop. IMO there is a fine balance that can be reached when using this multiple carbin source method that can'tbe tweaked as easy in the "all in one" off the shelf systems.
Thanks for the info.
vito is hooked
New member
Thanks for all the Info, I have been doseing with 1tsp of sugar every other day for the last 6 months with great results, my nitrate went from 10 to 0 in about 3 months, Just got back from vacation, was gone for 3 weeks, had my bud feed the fish and add top off while I was gone, Nitrate at 20, PH 7.8 Alk and Cal are a little low, gonna do two water changes within a week and start redoesing with sugar, Back to the drawing board, THANKS
