Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing

[bif24701]

I just added my Pukani dry rock that I had soaking in RO/DI for the last 5 days. I have started adding vinegar 75ml twice per day. Goal here is to dose carbon to assist with removing nutrients while curing the Pukani rock. I also plan to use AC and GFO as needed. I have a good strong skimmer that will removed as much as possible and run on the wet side.

 

[007Bond]

If you squint,....I can see a beautiful tank in the near future. I like your rock stacking and the over all clean set up. What leds are you using? :thumbsup:

 

[bif24701]

If you squint,....I can see a beautiful tank in the near future. I like your rock stacking and the over all clean set up. What leds are you using? :thumbsup:

Not sure why I am havering problems posting pictures suddenly. They are the new Kessil A360WE, love them!

 

[bif24701]

 

[tmz]

Personally, I'd wait until after the nitrification cycle before dosing organic carbon and then only when there was some NO3 and PO4. I'm inclined to let the ammonia detoxifiers have their time without competition for ammonia, nitrogen, phosphate and oxygen from the facultative herterotrphic bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing.
If there is a concern about the rock leaching PO4 , curing it in a bin with salt water and if needed some lanthanum chloride can reduce that.

 

[bif24701]

Personally, I'd wait until after the nitrification cycle before dosing organic carbon and then only when there was some NO3 and PO4. I'm inclined to let the ammonia detoxifiers have their time without competition for ammonia, nitrogen, phosphate and oxygen from the facultative herterotrphic bacteria encouraged by organic carbon dosing.
If there is a concern about the rock leaching PO4 , curing it in a bin with salt water and if needed some lanthanum chloride can reduce that.

If organic carbon dosing would impose on the growth of the nitrifying bacteria then I'll will hold off. The BRS Pukani is however notorious for leaching both nitrates and phosphates. My PO4 is already up to .09 and that seems high for less than 24hrs. As everything is new I would prefer to keep everything together in the main tank rather than maintaining two trash cans and a display with water changes, temp, and flow. My reasoning is to get ahead of the leaching nutrients before i want to add livestock.

 

[TylerHaworth]

Quick question Tom:

I saw that you run Rox carbon, but I can't seem to find how much you use, and how often you change it… I know the Zeo guys are religious about running pretty aggressive GAC regimens, and I wonder what your thoughts/practices are for vodka/vinegar.

Thanks!

 

[tmz]

I use about 5 ozs per 100 gallons ;changee monthly. Sometimes less. Half of it is in a reactor .;the other half is in an old canister filter in mesh bags. I think it's useful as an organics remover but not entirely sure it's absolutely necessry with good skimming.

 

[reefpatrol3]

Very good read, cleared some of the stuff up.

 

[reefpatrol3]

Let me see if I've got it right.
1. End result there is not much difference between vodka and vinegar.
But vinegar would increase ph quicker than vodka.
2.better to dose in a high flow area with live rock, hoping to get the carbons to attach to
That rock vs the rock in the display.
3. Still use gfo and gac but possibly less.
4. Better to have N and P already low.
5. Start slow but increase dosage until N and P are where you want them OR if you get
Snotty white stringy stuff.

 

[bif24701]

Week 2, heavy carbon dosing, 450 ml vinegar. I will now stop and let things settle. Here is one day of skimming! Nothing in tank but curing 50 lbs Pukani.

 

[TylerHaworth]

I use about 5 ozs per 100 gallons ;changee monthly. Sometimes less. Half of it is in a reactor .;the other half is in an old canister filter in mesh bags. I think it's useful as an organics remover but not entirely sure it's absolutely necessry with good skimming.

Thanks, that's pretty close to what I've been running - 10oz of Large Particle Lignite in my 150 cube changed out every 30 days

 

[tmz]

Let me see if I've got it right.
1. End result there is not much difference between vodka and vinegar.
But vinegar would increase ph quicker than vodka.
2.better to dose in a high flow area with live rock, hoping to get the carbons to attach to
That rock vs the rock in the display.
3. Still use gfo and gac but possibly less.
4. Better to have N and P already low.
5. Start slow but increase dosage until N and P are where you want them OR if you get
Snotty white stringy stuff.

1. No ,vinegar drops pH quicker initially.

2. No, the carbon won't attach. Surface area is needed by the bacteria that consume it along with N and P. Yes, high flow helps move it around even thugh it moves relatively fast via diffusion. it is highly miscible.

3. Probably less gfo if you need any; no less gac since it helps export the extra organic material from organic carbon dosing.

4. yes , but present at detectable levels.

5. yes, build up the dose slowly.

 

[Red_Ant]

Tom,

When is it too early to start carbon dosing? I'm setting up my new 300 gallon tank that has a 100g sump (with dsb), 120g cryptic and 75g frag tank. I acid wash/lanthanum'd some old LR and dry rock to get all the leaching phosphates out. The cycle just finished as well with 0 phosphates and under 10 nitrates. I will be move my 12 small fish over to the new tank this weekend.

Is it too early to start carbon dosing? I want to maintain my low levels even when I add my fish instead of fighting nutrients after they get high from adding/feeding the fish. I don't want to have to run GFO so I figured now would be good since I am at zero now. Can I start now or should I wait a couple of weeks? I just don't want to end up with the rocks sucking up and holding onto phosphates then releasing them back into the water. I had this uphill issue with my last tank, though I have to admit it was because I waited 3-4 months before adding GFO.

 

[tmz]

The nitrification phase of the cylce may be done but I'd give the denitrification phase at least a couple weeks to see if the nitrate level drops without the extra organic C..

 

[Red_Ant]

Got it. After a couple of weeks should I start dosing then? I would rather do carbon dosing to handle phosphates instead of GFO. And I know my phosphates will start creeping up in the next 2-4 weeks. As always thanks for your help.

 

[bif24701]

Cycle done, ammonia 0ppm nitrite 0ppm nitrate 0ppm



I owe the quick cycle of 2 weeks to my carbon dosing and starting with some ammonia in the system. There is a bacteria bloom going on right now so water is cloudy will do a large water change. I think there may be a build up of the vinegar causing the cloudiness. I started out with 75ml up to 450 until a few days ago. I am pleased with the progress of the system at this point. I seeded my refugium with a nag of tisbe pods from what I read should have a tank full hatched in 8 days.

 

[007Bond]

Hey guys a question. Dosing vinegar has worked exceptionally well for me, I would say I have 0 algae. Now the other day I did a water change, and at the same time I changed out my GAC. My GAC comes in mesh bags, so I replaced the 3 bags I have in the sump. Over the next 11/2 to 2 days my sand and rocks turned a color of brown,...very fast. So I started a LC treatment which completely reversed/stopped the browning (yay!!)
Now the question, I don't think the water change was the culprit,...so in changing the 3 bags of GAC, did I disrupt the bacteria colonies growing on the carbon bags,...should I have only changed two bags, and left one to seed the two new bags? Any thoughts/input will be appreciated.---Rick

 

[tmz]

It's possible. The bacteria seem to like to colonize around gac as gac attracts organics .

 

[007Bond]

If I wouldn't have did the water change and GAC at the same time, I would know for sure. I use IO for salt, but I suspect I upset some balance with the GAC from the quick reaction I got. Next time I leave one of the bags and only change two.---Rick