I just posted on the that thread regarding LaCl and leaching rock treatment.
Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing
- Thread starter tmz
- Start date
I just posted on the that thread regarding LaCl and leaching rock treatment.
No charge, glad to do it, I'm learning too. You are welcome.
Maybe spreading the orgnic carbon dosing dosing to a area of faster flow could help avoid the stringy buildup even at a ;slightly higher dose.. I dose most of mine ( small portions into drain areas ahead of refugia too to encourage sponge growth there) into a very trublent sump that moves around 4500 gallons of water per hour through it. Not sure if the film you are seeing is from LaCl precipitant or bacteria from the organic carbon .
Aquarist007
New member
What do you do to keep your NO3's and PO4 in check,...any advice? Thanks,---Rick
Rick,
It's a short question with a long answer.
Balancing nutrient export while feeding heavily in a closed system housing a variety of animals including a large fish population, (nps, sps , lps etc. is doable) .There are a number of tools and methods to achieve it. The effect of each in isolation is often debated .I use a number of them in combination including :
Some detritus removal
Unlit refugia without algae( cryptic zones)
A lit refugium, bare bottom for macro algae; chaeto hasn't been growing or even survivng for a while now . I'm tying some caulerpa and rhodophya types of algaes now as several folks have reported they seem to fare better than chaetomorpha in more oligotrophic( low nutrient ) water. Even though I don't seem to need the macro algae for N and P reduction , I like to have it for the O2 production, CO2 reduction and habitat it can provide .
GAC(granulated activated carbon), moderate amounts. Ocasionally puirgen and /or poly fiter or cuprisorb as well .
GFO if needed. /Haven't needed any since last November. No longer sue any lanthaum chlorid in the qauriums. haven't for a couple of years. Too risky for my taste,
Small water changes (1% per day) mostly for balancing element ratios with some removal of nutrints and potentially out of balance elements like iron, iodide, potassium and accumulated metals.
A remote deep sand bed with live rock on top and brisk flow;and deep sand in some tanks on the system for habitat for the animals that need it like burying wrasses.
Use of a sulfur denitrator; not in the last 5 years for the main system though.
All of the above were used long before I started organic carbon dosing 5.5 years ago and weren't enough to manage the feeding I chose to do and the number of animals I chose to keep in terms of the low NO3 and PO4 levels, I like. The sulfur denitrator could keep the NO3 low but not the PO4. I'm not crazy about the sulfater production , pH drop and alkalinity consumption long term though .
Most of the above are still in play.
I've also tried increasing nitrogen to up ther PO4 uptake with sodium nitrate and aspartic acid. It didn't in my case.
There is also copious sponge growth likely related to the organic carbon dosing. Sponges are very good at taking in dissolved nitrogen and inorganic phosphate and releasing organicily bound nutrients in their cells which are readily eaten by some animals or exported by filtration methods. As I do with corals and algaes , I rely on skimming and GAC for some level of control of any toxins that may be produced.
Consistency in water chemistry( alk, calcium, magnesium minor and trace elements,pH ,alkinity ,temperature etc) and feeding routines are very important in my view. I do the same things each day in the same way in small increments for the most part . I tweak this and that from time to time but not much. This approach helps the aquarium find it's equilibrium points,IMO.
I also have tanks heavily stocked with healthy corals which take up nutrients including N and P.
Rick,
It's a short question with a long answer.
Balancing nutrient export while feeding heavily in a closed system housing a variety of animals including a large fish population, (nps, sps , lps etc. is doable) .There are a number of tools and methods to achieve it. The effect of each in isolation is often debated .I use a number of them in combination including :
Some detritus removal
Unlit refugia without algae( cryptic zones)
A lit refugium, bare bottom for macro algae; chaeto hasn't been growing or even survivng for a while now . I'm tying some caulerpa and rhodophya types of algaes now as several folks have reported they seem to fare better than chaetomorpha in more oligotrophic( low nutrient ) water. Even though I don't seem to need the macro algae for N and P reduction , I like to have it for the O2 production, CO2 reduction and habitat it can provide .
GAC(granulated activated carbon), moderate amounts. Ocasionally puirgen and /or poly fiter or cuprisorb as well .
GFO if needed. /Haven't needed any since last November. No longer sue any lanthaum chlorid in the qauriums. haven't for a couple of years. Too risky for my taste,
Small water changes (1% per day) mostly for balancing element ratios with some removal of nutrints and potentially out of balance elements like iron, iodide, potassium and accumulated metals.
A remote deep sand bed with live rock on top and brisk flow;and deep sand in some tanks on the system for habitat for the animals that need it like burying wrasses.
Use of a sulfur denitrator; not in the last 5 years for the main system though.
All of the above were used long before I started organic carbon dosing 5.5 years ago and weren't enough to manage the feeding I chose to do and the number of animals I chose to keep in terms of the low NO3 and PO4 levels, I like. The sulfur denitrator could keep the NO3 low but not the PO4. I'm not crazy about the sulfater production , pH drop and alkalinity consumption long term though .
Most of the above are still in play.
I've also tried increasing nitrogen to up ther PO4 uptake with sodium nitrate and aspartic acid. It didn't in my case.
There is also copious sponge growth likely related to the organic carbon dosing. Sponges are very good at taking in dissolved nitrogen and inorganic phosphate and releasing organicily bound nutrients in their cells which are readily eaten by some animals or exported by filtration methods. As I do with corals and algaes , I rely on skimming and GAC for some level of control of any toxins that may be produced.
Consistency in water chemistry( alk, calcium, magnesium minor and trace elements,pH ,alkinity ,temperature etc) and feeding routines are very important in my view. I do the same things each day in the same way in small increments for the most part . I tweak this and that from time to time but not much. This approach helps the aquarium find it's equilibrium points,IMO.
I also have tanks heavily stocked with healthy corals which take up nutrients including N and P.
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Thanks Tom for taking the time to post the long analogy, although I know you have posted it many times through your thread. The reason I asked the question is because I know that carbon dosing is not the only solution to help in reducing NO3 and PO4. You've added other avenues that you do with heavy feeding to help maintain your NO3's and PO4's at levels you want, not just pouring some vodka and vinegar in your system.
My tanks PO4 is finely near 0 through curing my rock that kept the levels elevated. Now I plan to start adding fish and various over life that require being fed, and I don't want to put myself back where I was by not balancing export and import.
I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I have learned a lot from following your thread. Thanks again!---Rick
My tanks PO4 is finely near 0 through curing my rock that kept the levels elevated. Now I plan to start adding fish and various over life that require being fed, and I don't want to put myself back where I was by not balancing export and import.
I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I have learned a lot from following your thread. Thanks again!---Rick
I'm on post 100 reading thru this whole thread.
What a great help it is in trying to figure things out.
This may have been answered already but I will ask it anyway. ; )
Would something like seachem matrix or denitrator, with its large surface area, placed in the bottom of the refugium be a good idea to give the bacteria a place to grow?
What a great help it is in trying to figure things out.
This may have been answered already but I will ask it anyway. ; )
Would something like seachem matrix or denitrator, with its large surface area, placed in the bottom of the refugium be a good idea to give the bacteria a place to grow?
I don't know about the Seachem dinitraror , I do use some of the matrix pebbles. It's just like extra rock but more porous. I keep mine in those plastic baskets strawberries etc are packaged in at the supremarket. I swish them off occassionaly in a bucket of salt water to remove any loose detritus that may clog it up.
Aquarist007
New member
Hi Tom
I've had three tanks now including my own where hammer coral is bleaching. All these tanks are vodka dosed and running Rowphos? Could there be a correlation here?
I've had three tanks now including my own where hammer coral is bleaching. All these tanks are vodka dosed and running Rowphos? Could there be a correlation here?
Aquarist007
New member
Tom, I would really appreciate your input on, this post
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23081659&postcount=396
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23081659&postcount=396
Maybe ,if the SRP (soluble reactive phosphate ) is limiting and or nitrogen is deficient. Euphyllia do ok in my system now ;some struggled when I dropped PO4 too low/ too fast earlier on.
Regarding the other post ;it's not in the context of a tank dosed with organic carbon so it's hard to comment here without the benefit of discussion with the post
s author .
Nonetheless,since you requested it :
I think iron is a good thing for macro algae; it can however cause issues with browning and recission in some corals in excess. So, it can effect the aqaurium and not just the refugium.
I know of no reason tho think ,cyanobacteria is allergic to high calcium or that high calcium levels influence non calcareous macro algae growth.
All corals have some need for organic carbon from foods or otherwise ; photosynthesis only gets them so far. Some nps meet close to 100% of their need for it from feeding or adsorbtion. Some leathers and lps may run 20% or so . SPs maybe 5% .
I don't think precise numbers are known . Feeding is important for all of them ;bacteria are also food.
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Aquarist007
New member
Tks Tom
Do you think the 10 mL of vodka daily on top of the Nitraguard pellets might be too much then?
Do you think the 10 mL of vodka daily on top of the Nitraguard pellets might be too much then?
Aquarist007
New member
Aquarist007
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Aquarist007
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