Vodka, vinegar,biopellets and other organic carbon dosing

[tmz]

The dose now is the highest I've ever used. I brought the N an P down first with a GFO and a sulfur dentirator. PO4 <0.1ppm and NO3 around 5ppm at the start of organic carbon dosing

I'm not convinced the cyano uses the extra organic C;it might but I have no reason to think so. It doesn't really need it just CO2 light, water and acess to P. I think the extra CO2 from bacterial activity and/or a drop in competition at start up are more likely.

BTW, one contributor to the Reef Chemsitry Forum, had his graduate students analyze NO3PO4X. Turns out it has almost the exact mixture of ethanol and acetic acid I've been using for 6 years or so.

 

[marty9876]

Is it common for mechanical filtration to plug much faster when carbon dosing?

I just carbon dosing for the last 2 weeks and wend from plugging 10 micron (used for Lacl3 dosing) and 200 micron socks being run 24/1 from every 3-4 days to less than 24 hours now.

 

[Aquarist007]

Is it common for mechanical filtration to plug much faster when carbon dosing?

I just carbon dosing for the last 2 weeks and wend from plugging 10 micron (used for Lacl3 dosing) and 200 micron socks being run 24/1 from every 3-4 days to less than 24 hours now.

That is common. Are you running a skimmer? If I would remove the socks

 

[marty9876]

That is common. Are you running a skimmer? If I would remove the socks

Running two skimmers.

Does this filter sock clogging go away after bacteria is established/once levels (no3/po4) drop down or is it pretty common anytime one is carbon dosing?

 

[tmz]

Yes, it gets better but can still be a lesser problem . It can take a while. They need surface area to colonize. Dosing the organics upstream of a refugium with live rock or other surface area could help.

 

[marty9876]

I've been dosing into a unlit 75g packed with live rock (no livestock, rock only). This happens to drain into a 10 micro sock (I dose that drain with Lacl3 form another tank's drain- the drains are tied together to a common sump).

I had a pretty good break out of the while filmy/slimy stuff in the sump, cut back dosing and that cleared up. Making good progress on no3/po4 reduction. I'm trying to get an idea if I need to adjust my lacl3/mechanical filtration approaches.

 

[tmz]

I don't use any lantuam chloride or gfo or filter socks( except for one of seven drains , the one is from a sehorse tank), anymore fwiw. Haven't used lanthanum in a few years and no gfo in the last year. Watch the PO4 it might fall too low too quickly with lanthanum or other removers.

 

[007Bond]

Interesting Tom,...no LC or GFO,...does your carbon dosing keep your PO4 and NO3 in check/where you want it? Do you keep the same feeding regiment all of the time, what else, regular water changing? Would be nice to put the LC and GFO away for good.:dance: Do you ever have to adjust your carbon input or keep it the same also? Thanks,---Rick

 

[tmz]

PO4 runs .02ppm to .04 ppm per hanah 713 ; NO3 around 0.2ppm per Salifert. 1% daily water changes .Occasional siphoning of detritus buildups. Carbon dose is consistent at 36ml 80proof vodka and 80 ml vinegar daily for 650 gallons.Also, heavy skimming adn GAC ( about 24 ozs of rox 8 for the 650 gallons changed monthly). System has had organic C added for the last 5.5 years so I aimagine bacteial colonization is pretty steady now.

 

[007Bond]

Do you keep feeding the same,...I thought it could add to NO3 and PO4 ,... maybe the water changes come into play in keeping away from the LC and GFO.

 

[tmz]

Feeding is very heavy by most standards.

 

[007Bond]

I know carbon dosing comes into play,...but keeping 40 fish fed and happy,...your skimming, your daily water changing ect.,..."export" must come into play, keeping NO3 down and PO4 in check

 

[Aquarist007]

Feeding is very heavy by most standards.

Tom, what does your feeding consist of?

 

[tmz]

About 2.5 ozs of frozen foods, (mysis, brine, bllodworm, cyclopeeze or nutrimar ova or cylcops for samll stuff; brodacst feeding every day split into two feedings. Plus some extra PE musis for the seahorses once a day. Plus 3x per week they get some nori , Prime Reef flake,spirulina flake, and krill. Once in wheil I add a little coral frenzy.

 

[marty9876]

I'm in the ~20 cube a day range also, it's a lot of food to deal with.

 

[007Bond]

What do you do to keep your NO3's and PO4 in check,...any advice? Thanks,---Rick

 

[Aquarist007]

About 2.5 ozs of frozen foods, (mysis, brine, bllodworm, cyclopeeze or nutrimar ova or cylcops for samll stuff; brodacst feeding every day split into two feedings. Plus some extra PE musis for the seahorses once a day. Plus 3x per week they get some nori , Prime Reef flake,spirulina flake, and krill. Once in wheil I add a little coral frenzy.

thanks I wasnt aware that blood worm was a marine food. I have lots of that for fresh water fish. Tks for the tip....I'm all for variety:idea:

 

[Aquarist007]

What do you do to keep your NO3's and PO4 in check,...any advice? Thanks,---Rick

I don't want to be blunt here but have you read the thread....its jammed full of advise and suggestions for you.

 

[007Bond]

Have been subscribed and following Tom's thread since February 2012. My question was not directed to you!

 

[tmz]

Only about 10% of the mix is bloodworms( Chironomidae), aka midge fly larvae . I use the Hikari which is gut loaded. Chironomidae are found in inland lakes and coastal waters. They are a known food source for some brackish fish like kilifish and some saltwater fish like sticklebacks. The later is a scaleless fish with plating. They are related to pipefish and seahorses. My long lived fish of all types like them and have been eating them for around 10 years. I try for variety and wouldn't recommend them as a a complete diet. . I think they may be a useful source of cartenoids and vitamin A.

BTW, for clarity and a side stroy, there is also a species of polycahaete marine worm (glycera) known as bloodworm ; I often use them for bait when fishing the Outerbanks of NC. I don't feed them to the aqarium ;they are much too expensive ,messy and they bite. They are related to the common bristle worm we see in our tanks . Birstle worms can be harmful to some fish btw. One morning last year , I noticed one of my teenage seahorses hanging on to a rock on the bottom . It seemed to be try to move to feed but was struggling I picked it up and a one and half inch bristle worm was locked on its' tail,probably tried to eat it during the night. I removed it. After a couple of days a sectoin of the tail turned white andthe fish wsn't eating well. I treated the fish with an anitbiotic and it recoverd but lost about a qaurter inch of his tail and did not ever regenrate it .