Vortech Tunze and Jebao

[FirstContact]

Actually Fish Street and Reefbreeders are two among others that have warehouses in the US (and elsewhere U.K. And AU for Fish Street) and stock tons of Jaebo products. Again, if anyone had won a lawsuit in the US, this would not be possible. So we know it's above board and legal. If I was Tunze or Vortech, I'd be overjoyed if I could put Jebao out of business. If they have a case, they should go to court.

 

[jda]

It is not true. You fell for more of their lies - fish street anyway. They extra money is for quicker shipping and they put a label from a fake US address (sometimes, but not all of the time... you can still get Chinese stamps on the package). You cannot take fake, internet warehouses to court.

This goes to the ignorance that they need to keep things running smoothly. Congratulations, it is working. It would just be easier to admit that you don't care than keep on defending the indefensible. We all already know that you don't care. I get indifference - we all have some of it whether it be buying a knockoff USB charger cable, copying a movie or song. At least the Napster group admitted that they knew what they were doing was not right and had the balls to say that they did not care.

I have seen a few US stores that have them on the shelves - they quickly left. I know of one C&D letter that scared the owner and once he was informed of what they were, he never sold their stuff again... although I can probably guess that he sold out of what he had outside of the store. I don't know if the other stores got the letters as well.

 

[FirstContact]

It is not true.

Again it's legal. Otherwise Customs and government agencies would be involved. It's on going and uninterrupted because Tunze and Vortech don't have a case. Otherwise, they should sue, win, and stop the sales. Too bad that's never happening because Jebao is operating legally.

 

[jda]

I think that I finally get it. Are you getting a monthly stipend from China to troll message boards with nonsense? There is no other way that this makes any sense. They have wised up a bit and started to lie about local distributors, so why not trolls too? I am ashamed that this took me five pages to figure out. My apologies to everyone.

 

[FirstContact]

I accept your apology. If they are doing business on a regular and vast basis and it was illegal, the government would stop them. But they are not going to stop them just because you don't approve or like them.

 

[jda]

You are right - the government is not going to stop them because I don't approve or like them. THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT STOP ANYBODY THAT DOES THIS - NOBODY, EVEN IF THEY LOST AN IP BATTLE. Did you see the government taking Samsung phones off of shelves after they CLEARLY LOST an IP battle with Apple? Or even more ridiculously, stopping Samsung phones at USCBP? Nope. Samsung lost, went to court and had to pay reparations. Since these cannot, then it continues to happen, and probably always will and there are always some people who sell out their country and soul to defend them. It is true that I don't like it, but I also don't have to let people think that your dribble is anywhere near reality.

 

[FirstContact]

Clearly you've been suggesting the whole time that no one should own Jebaos. Well, I and others do. Clearly you've been suggesting the whole time that it is illegal to sell and thereby own Jebao products. I disagree. Where's the court case?

Earlier in the thread it was everything Chinese but now it's just Jebao.

 

[jda]

Earlier in the thread it was everything Chinese but now it's just Jebao.

It was never "everything Chinese" from me - maybe others. I was very clear about this. It has always been IP and Patent stealing. I have no ire towards the 80% of Chinese goods that respect the agreements that their government made since joining the World Trade Organization. It is the other 20% that I have an issue with.

My whole point has never been about a legal issue - there is none that can be brought. None. It is with education since these types of situations are only allowed to continue through indifference or ignorance. I am trying to educate the ignorant. The indifferent will always be indifferent - they just rarely have the stones to admit as much. This has been consistent as well.

I have been very clear about my message. It is firm and steadfast through real-world experience.

Again, if just one person realizes what Jebao is all about, understands their business model and has any sort of capacity for beyond-surface-level thought with even a mild understanding of right and wrong and chooses another product, then in some very, very minuscule way I helped a good company out just a bit, which helps a community which helps a country... and so on. I also know the very small amount of difference this will make, but at least I am doing something.

 

[ktownhero]

IP is for the birds. The world is a better place when people share their ideas. Let it go and buy whatever you like.

 

[rtparty]

IP is for the birds. The world is a better place when people share their ideas. Let it go and buy whatever you like.

This is EXACTLY how you kill innovation. While I think some patents are too far-reaching, you have to protect your ideas at some point.

Can you imagine inventing some product that was a massive hit (maybe you made millions or got a lot of recognition. Whatever floats your boat) and then some guy comes along, steals the entire idea and gets credit for it? Now he is making the millions while you go bankrupt. Let me tell you what happens next time you or someone else has a great idea, you/they don't go through with it. Why risk everything if someone can just wait, steal and profit?

That is what kills innovation.

 

[Potatohead]

jda;

I have kept out of the last page or so because you are saying exactly what I have been trying to say in a far better way. Thank you for that :love1:

 

[ktownhero]

This is EXACTLY how you kill innovation. While I think some patents are too far-reaching, you have to protect your ideas at some point.

Can you imagine inventing some product that was a massive hit (maybe you made millions or got a lot of recognition. Whatever floats your boat) and then some guy comes along, steals the entire idea and gets credit for it? Now he is making the millions while you go bankrupt. Let me tell you what happens next time you or someone else has a great idea, you/they don't go through with it. Why risk everything if someone can just wait, steal and profit?

That is what kills innovation.

The free and open source software and hardware communities entirely prove this wrong. Keep in mind that there is a difference between stealing and sharing. Those communities work because they effectively require "give credit where credit is due" via licensing agreements (typically either GNU or Apache). But strict IP law makes it suicide to ever admit that you are borrowing someone else's idea. So, people are forced to either give up or lie about it. It actually stifles innovation in its modern form.

EDIT: Tesla open-sourced their patents and they are on the forefront of innovation

 

[rtparty]

The free and open source software and hardware communities entirely prove you wrong. Keep in mind that there is a difference between stealing and sharing. Those communities work because they effectively require "give credit where credit is due" via licensing agreements (typically either GNU or Apache). But strict IP law makes it suicide to ever admit that you are borrowing someone else's idea. So, people are forced to either give up or lie about it. It actually stifles innovation in its modern form.

EDIT: Tesla open-sourced their patents and they are on the forefront of innovation

As much as I love Tesla, terrible example because they are barely above water and could literally fail any day now. They are bleeding money like the US government.

Again, I agreed with you that some of the patent stuff is ridiculous. But I understand why some of it is in place. Too many people won't give credit where credit is due. Especially when they aren't forced by someone in power...

 

[ktownhero]

As much as I love Tesla, terrible example because they are barely above water and could literally fail any day now. They are bleeding money like the US government.

Well that has nothing to do with patent sharing, and also people have been saying that for 14 years now... lol. It's a long game.

I was being hyperbolic in my original comment. I don't literally believe that there should be no IP law whatsoever, it's just that for me the IP law would be "you can use whatever you want, but cite your sources". I just don't think it's worth ragging on some company for borrowing ideas. I mean look at Ecotech. I LOVE Vortech pumps, but isn't it ridiculous that NOBODY else can make a pump with the dry side on the outside of the tank? That fact is not creating innovation, it is allowing the hoarding of a clever but basic idea and preventing competition. I don't think anyone should be forced to share an idea, but if other people can figure it out... I say they ought to be allowed to go for it.

 

[horseplay]

I can understand that Tunze is not going after Jebao (assuming it does have a case) because Jebao is sold on fishstreet but why Tunze is not going after Neptune WAV?

EcoTech doesn't have to go after anyone. No one has imitated its products yet.

The Chinese should go after Ecotech for the DC controlled return pumps right? Ecotech started producing them way after Jebao did.

 

[rtparty]

Well that has nothing to do with patent sharing, and also people have been saying that for 14 years now... lol. It's a long game.

I was being hyperbolic in my original comment. I don't literally believe that there should be no IP law whatsoever, it's just that for me the IP law would be "you can use whatever you want, but cite your sources". I just don't think it's worth ragging on some company for borrowing ideas. I mean look at Ecotech. I LOVE Vortech pumps, but isn't it ridiculous that NOBODY else can make a pump with the dry side on the outside of the tank? That fact is not creating innovation, it is allowing the hoarding of a clever but basic idea and preventing competition. I don't think anyone should be forced to share an idea, but if other people can figure it out... I say the law should say go for it.

I agree 100% about Ecotech. Their patent is outright ridiculous. But I give them credit for playing the game and exploiting it.

I remember an old member here on RC actually creating a dry side for the Vortech that was completely silent. He's long since been banned (I have no idea what happened there nor do I care. Just stating that so if someone asks me who, I don't remember his name.)

We could have even better pumps like the Vortech if competition was allowed on that front.

 

[ktownhero]

I agree 100% about Ecotech. Their patent is outright ridiculous. But I give them credit for playing the game and exploiting it.

I remember an old member here on RC actually creating a dry side for the Vortech that was completely silent. He's long since been banned (I have no idea what happened there nor do I care. Just stating that so if someone asks me who, I don't remember his name.)

We could have even better pumps like the Vortech if competition was allowed on that front.

I appreciate the interesting and friendly discussion! I think we're more or less on the same page. I didn't know about the member that did that, quite interesting!

 

[rtparty]

I appreciate the interesting and friendly discussion! I think we're more or less on the same page. I didn't know about the member that did that, quite interesting!

We are on the same page. I just played the other side of why parents CAN be so vital.

I am a heavy Android user for the exact reasons you shared. I don't like the big brother approach of the half eaten fruit company...

Ok I'm off topic...Let's return to morality and how we can police it

 

[FirstContact]

let it go and buy whatever you like.

+1

 

[LQT]

Speaking of stealing ideas... How bout Facebook copying Snapchat functionality pretty much dealing them a death blow! :thumbdown

Anyway, I like Tunze, specifically for their longevity. When I upgrade tanks, I'm probably gonna sell my MP10QDs and get more Tunzes.