Walt's Official A. thiellei Page

[Laticialm]

Walt, I love your fish. I live on the other side of the bay...is there any place close that I could get good fish? I am very hesitant to order online because of the stress factor (I have never raised a goldfish much less a saltwater fish and I want to make the survival rates of the fish increase however I can). I found through another member on this board Pacific East Aquaculture...but they are more corals than fish right now. The local pet store recommended that I use a damsel to cycle my saltwater tank...which told me that I probably didn't want to buy anything from there...I had already done enough reading to figure out that using a fish to cycle your tank is cruel espeically if you aren't going to keep that fish. Would love to find out that there is a Saltwater Fish Store on in the Baltimore area...gotta take my son up to Hopkins next week and would love to take the time to visit that store

 

[WDLV]

That is a question best answered offline. Please shoot me a PM and I will reply via e-mail.

 

[Dan]

Curious why you chose those meds.

I am thrilled they are doing better. Ouch.

Dan

 

[WDLV]

It was what was available. Luckily it doesn't appear that meds will be necessary.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Well thank you for the response and there is a lot of good information. Has anyone breed them and what do the fry look like. The cross you are talking about is very possible and I am sure could be duplicated by a crafty hobbiest. I still say they are very nice looking fish, What are the sizes of them as you stated that they are the smallest of clownfish. They look larger in your pictures and video.
Michael

 

[WDLV]

Burgess says the max length is 65mm. I'd currently put that closer to 100mm.

I have not been able to find anyone who has bred them in captivity nor have I found pictures of any that have common captive breeding flaws.

 

[jake levi]

Official A. thielli Page

Official A. thielli Page

Walt this is a fascinating thread, I look forward to someone breeding these, and soon.

Could you pm me your website?

Thank you for sharing all of this, they are truly beautiful fish, whatever their origin, from what you said I think only DNA will nail it down any further.

 

[WDLV]

My PWP is in my details. It is in need of some updating but the vast majority of the info there is current. LMK if you still need me to PM you a link.

I was talking to a lab in Canada a couple years ago who had been doing some DNA mapping on the skunk complex and said that this particular complex was difficult to map due to apparent permiscuity between species. While this lends no real conclusion to the question, it does confirm that this complex is subject to a lot of cross breeding. There's not a lot of DNA research on them because there is very little money yo be gained from such research. No payoff - no research grant. That said, when it is fully mapped I'm guessing it will be done by slave laborers... um... err... I mean Masters and Doctorate seeking students at a University.
Even a homozygous breeding success will prove nothing but will lend credance to the theories that it is a hybrid and point to a couple potential parent species.

 

[WDLV]

I learned enough about genetics this weekend to know that I don't know enough to persue any portion of this endeavour from a genetics aspect and that even if I did that there are also too many unknown variables to make any sort of accurate statistical prediction. What I do still have is crackpot science and a shot at breeding them to see what really happens.

I have constructed a chart of approximately what I expect to see if I were successful at breeding these and raising the fry. That I can share with you. Some of these pictures are mine, some I have direct permission and some are other's photos and I did not have access to their names to give photo credit. So, if they are yours, please feel free to speak up and take credit and if need be, ask me to remove them.

I may draw up a better chart either way.

Here's what I'd expect to see.

 

[Winwood]

So you're expecting a lot of misbarred ocellaris! JK! In all seriousness I am really curious to see what you're pair might produce.

 

[WDLV]

Yeah, since the need to quarrantine them arose I have been rethinking my current plans of doing a 180 gallon and just down sizing the plans to a 75 or some other manageable size that I can move upstairs. I'm wanting less to have other fish in the system for risk of introducing a pathogen. I still want to do a 500 in the next house but I'm kinda asking myself, "with all the other things going on in my life and the risk of pathogen introduction etc., do I really need a 180 right now?" I'm doing a 50 gallon water change ever week or two, I could do a larger water change with a smaller tank. Not that the salt is really a problem. A lot of what is keeping me wanting a larger system is that I have this huge skimmer and don't want to buy a smaller one that would fit under a stand and that larger water volume allows for more stability of parameters.
Not much point to this. I'm just sorta thinking out loud.

 

[WDLV]

This update really needs to go on this thread for informational purposes.

A few weeks ago when my clowns were really starting to bicker I started seeing these splotches on the male and assumed that she had been biting him.

When ths problem carried over to the female, I quarantined them and put them in hypo for a couple weeks. I put them back in their main display a couple days ago (Saturday) and last night they both had the splotches again. I don't think it was the hypo that cured them but rather time out of the main system. I noticed last night that there were very large blotches on them and smaller ones this morning but in different places. Then it hit me. The friends I had asked offline about this are both very experienced with mating pairs and they've never seen this. I personally have had a lot of different species of clowns and never saw this (to my recollection.) So I asked myself; "self, what is in the display that's not in the quarrantine tank that my more experienced breeder friends have not typically contended with?" Answer - Aptasia and bristle worms! So, I'm putting my money on one of the two. This might also explain the missing scales, as they would be inclined to wipe off any irritant on the rocks.

These were taken last night.


Female -

Female -

Male -

 

[WDLV]

I don't know if anyone is still reading this but I'll go on in case anyone is....

The better part of a week ago I tried pairing the #3 thiellei with a much larger female ocellaris. I came back a few hours later to a fin shredded fish cowering in the upper corner of tthe tank. Um... that would be the large female I'm talking about. Based on this and the fact the previous owner described it as being aggressive, I'm going to presume this fish (despite it's small stature) is female and proceed on that assumption because if it's not, it's well on it's way. Let me reiterate that my other two are quite docile and that I once allowed the female (when she was smaller) to share space with an ocellaris of about the same size difference in an 8 gallon with no problems.
Looks like I'll be selling the ocellaris pair once she's fully healed.... I am NOT trying to rebuild my clown collection.
Anyhoo, I think my next attempt will be adding a tiny male sandaracinos and see how that goes.
I'm currently reducing the LR in the current display so I can add branch rock rubbel and essentially coat the bottom of the display with (R)BTAs for better access and feeding not to mention aptasia management.

 

[deangelr]

still following..

 

[trueblackpercula]

I am still here as well...I don't think its worms or apts...have you checked for a mantis shrimp? Maybe
Stray voltage?
Other fish?
presoaked fish food?
Brook?
To much phosphate remover?
Have you tried video recording them at night?
Are they scratching on rock work?
Is there a heater in the tank with them maybe burn marks?
If I can think of more I will ask....I am sure we can figure out what is wrong. I really want to see you raise some fry....keep us posted and can you get a good close up picture?
MICHAEL ANTHONY

 

[WDLV]

I am still here as well...I don't think its worms or apts...have you checked for a mantis shrimp? Maybe
Stray voltage?
Other fish?
presoaked fish food?
Brook?
To much phosphate remover?
Have you tried video recording them at night?
Are they scratching on rock work?
Is there a heater in the tank with them maybe burn marks?
If I can think of more I will ask....I am sure we can figure out what is wrong. I really want to see you raise some fry....keep us posted and can you get a good close up picture?
MICHAEL ANTHONY

Stray voltage? - Unlikely. The circuit they're on was installed just for them and should have an in tact ground.
Video? No. Don't have a CCD camera with IR.
I use Rod's food (which I rinse), cyclopeeze, frozen blood worms, rarely flake and pellet
No Scratching
No heater in tank.
I don't use phosphate remover.... probably should. I feed heavily and get the cyano like crazy.
No other fish in the tank.
Brook would have killed them before now.
Cant get a good closeup. I had a Digital Rebel but someone saw me put it in my car at a wedding and must have needed it more than me. Now I don't have a Digital Rebel any more.... Maybe my underwater camera would work better.

 

[jake levi]

Walts A.thielli

Walts A.thielli

Hi Walt

I have been following this right along.

THose almost look like scrape marks, but....... ?

Do you have a quarantine tank they could go into?

 

[WDLV]

I probably need to quell any sense of urgengy here by mentioning that these marks aren't really showing up much anymore since I did the last kalking (after the pictures were taken.) So, I'm pretty sure it's aptasia at the root of the problem. I had just taken them out of quarrantine when the pics were taken. So, yes, I do have several quarrantine tanks on standby. The marks are definately not scrapes. There are no scales missing and the marks travel over the course of a couple hours.
My BTAs are doing very poorly now I think water quality (very heavy feeding) is the problem. So, I may just do a sterile-style breeder tank if they continue to digress... and yes, I am taking steps to improve the water quality.

 

[deangelr]

I run Biopellets on one of my systems and it really makes a difference with heavy feedings for me.. FWIW

 

[WDLV]

I run Biopellets on one of my systems and it really makes a difference with heavy feedings for me.. FWIW

Thanks. I'll put that in the back of my mind.