What causes SPS to lighten or pale?

[Alex T.]

Great to see this topic up. I also have noticed a lighter color on my colonies, and havent changed light over about 7 months. I have a heavily stocked sps 80 gal tank with two fish that i feed lightly. Recently(past 2 months) i replaced my cone skimmer rated for a 150 gal tank to another rated to 300+ gal tank due to a great deal. I also have been replacing rox .08 carbon every two weeks, so i think my nutrients have been really low. I havent checked my nitrate levels, but my po4 is almost undetectable. Should i maybe start increasing with aminos maybe? Here is a pic of the tank

Honestly, why spend the money on aminos until you've exhausted better options? Remember that corals are animals. As they grow, they need more food just like any other living organism on the planet. I think this is why so many people say that their frags were colorful but as they grew they got pale. If you ate the same volume of food as a 5 year old that you did while being spoon fed Gerber baby food in a jar you might look pale and weak too:lmao:. This goes for fish as well. As they grow, they need more food. It's just the way it is.

Why not just get a couple more small fish and feed a little more? ULNS influence has gone too far IMO. People are starting to keep their tanks so clean that the same characteristics show up on many a thread about pale corals, tissue recession and polyp retraction. I didn't even see good colors in my SPS until nitrates reached 5ppm and phosphate climbed over .03ppm. Ever notice how some people can pound a 6 foot tank with three 400 watt halides for 8 hours with t5 supplements and their corals are rich like the rainbow? Then, you notice that their fish are fat and the corals get fed a couple times per week as well? Then we make the case that it would bleach our SPS in two days if we ran that much light for that long. It's no coincidence in a non-ulns system that feeding brings out colors and export is just as important. One without the other and it just won't work. Have you ever tested the water your colorful frags came in? I bet you'll be surprised at what you find. I was.

Undetectable levels are great if you're feeding a lot of food, but too many people are expecting their SPS corals to be pounded with bright light for photosynthesis without giving them enough energy in food to actually color up and grow. I don't keep a lot of fish but I do feed them a lot. The more I feed, the more water I need to change. A skimmer, carbon and gfo can only do so much. The fear of nuisance algae and losing all my SPS because of feeding too much use to scare me too. The funny thing is that as the corals grow and take over the aquascape, they consume a good amount of nutrients too, and nuisance algae has a harder time getting a foothold. I'm no longer afraid of measurable levels of nitrate and phosphate, and no longer embarrassed to say my tank runs a little dirty. Fatter fish, more colorful corals and a cleanup crew to take care of what I can't get to is my current MO.

As for ROX carbon, I'll never run it again. In fact, I no longer run carbon in a reactor either. I change out a small amount in a mesh bag once a month and leave it at that. I'd much rather do larger or more frequent water changes than try and keep nutrient levels low by not feeding.

Just my .02

 

[ReefCowboy]

Honestly, why spend the money on aminos until you've exhausted better options? Remember that corals are animals. As they grow, they need more food just like any other living organism on the planet. I think this is why so many people say that their frags were colorful but as they grew they got pale. If you ate the same volume of food as a 5 year old that you did while being spoon fed Gerber baby food in a jar you might look pale and weak too:lmao:. This goes for fish as well. As they grow, they need more food. It's just the way it is.

Why not just get a couple more small fish and feed a little more? ULNS influence has gone too far IMO. People are starting to keep their tanks so clean that the same characteristics show up on many a thread about pale corals, tissue recession and polyp retraction. I didn't even see good colors in my SPS until nitrates reached 5ppm and phosphate climbed over .03ppm. Ever notice how some people can pound a 6 foot tank with three 400 watt halides for 8 hours with t5 supplements and their corals are rich like the rainbow? Then, you notice that their fish are fat and the corals get fed a couple times per week as well? Then we make the case that it would bleach our SPS in two days if we ran that much light for that long. It's no coincidence in a non-ulns system that feeding brings out colors and export is just as important. One without the other and it just won't work. Have you ever tested the water your colorful frags came in? I bet you'll be surprised at what you find. I was.

Undetectable levels are great if you're feeding a lot of food, but too many people are expecting their SPS corals to be pounded with bright light for photosynthesis without giving them enough energy in food to actually color up and grow. I don't keep a lot of fish but I do feed them a lot. The more I feed, the more water I need to change. A skimmer, carbon and gfo can only do so much. The fear of nuisance algae and losing all my SPS because of feeding too much use to scare me too. The funny thing is that as the corals grow and take over the aquascape, they consume a good amount of nutrients too, and nuisance algae has a harder time getting a foothold. I'm no longer afraid of measurable levels of nitrate and phosphate, and no longer embarrassed to say my tank runs a little dirty. Fatter fish, more colorful corals and a cleanup crew to take care of what I can't get to is my current MO.

As for ROX carbon, I'll never run it again. In fact, I no longer run carbon in a reactor either. I change out a small amount in a mesh bag once a month and leave it at that. I'd much rather do larger or more frequent water changes than try and keep nutrient levels low by not feeding.

Just my .02

Hey Alex,

Thank you for the elaborate post. I agree with you 100%. I will add maybe two clownfish, since ive been wanting to do that for a while now. As most of others here, my corals are priority and fish comes second. Ive been running this tank for about a year and growth and color were really good until as i mentioned, the big skimmer and more efficient carbon were introduced. Color is still good, but some pieces have become more pale.

I think you nailed right in the head the fact we may be striving for an extremely clean tank. I do 10% wcs every week, religiously. I have unused 2 bottles of Red Seas reef energy and wonder if i should maybe give that a try little by little in addition to the two clownfish and see how the colonies react. What are your thoughts on that product? Not that im expecting the miracles it tries to be, but it seems to be a solid amino/ carb suplement.

Lastly, any reason you wouldnt use rox? I started using it in a reactor with rowaphos and was impressed with the water clarity.

Thanks for all the input folks! Sorry if im hijacking the tread, but ive been wanting to read about this exact topic for a while now!

 

[Alex T.]

Hey Alex,

Thank you for the elaborate post. I agree with you 100%. I will add maybe two clownfish, since ive been wanting to do that for a while now. As most of others here, my corals are priority and fish comes second. Ive been running this tank for about a year and growth and color were really good until as i mentioned, the big skimmer and more efficient carbon were introduced. Color is still good, but some pieces have become more pale.

I think you nailed right in the head the fact we may be striving for an extremely clean tank. I do 10% wcs every week, religiously. I have unused 2 bottles of Red Seas reef energy and wonder if i should maybe give that a try little by little in addition to the two clownfish and see how the colonies react. What are your thoughts on that product? Not that im expecting the miracles it tries to be, but it seems to be a solid amino/ carb suplement.

Lastly, any reason you wouldnt use rox? I started using it in a reactor with rowaphos and was impressed with the water clarity.

Thanks for all the input folks! Sorry if im hijacking the tread, but ive been wanting to read about this exact topic for a while now!

I really can't comment on the Red Sea products because I've never used them and don't know enough about them.

As for ROX, a tank already on the brink of being too clean may suffer irreversible damage. I was carbon dosing in my last tank, and when I introduced ROX I lost most of my SPS within 24 hours. Granted, I had no business carbon dosing because I now feel it's best left to those who are already good SPS keepers and want to reach another level. For most of us, it's just not a good idea until the basics are honed and we develop a methodology that works for us and that we can repeat. ROX is a very aggressive carbon and really will remove a lot of organics from your water, even at half the recommended dose. I believe this is why Zeovite disciples run high quality regular carbon passively in a filter bag instead of in a reactor as well. I'm sure that if your tank is a little dirty and you want to polish the water a little more to get things in order it may be fine. However, if you're already achieving pristine water, IMHO it's a no go.

 

[rovster]

Have really increased my feedings A LOT. I also started using the Zeo nano pack. I started the zeo supplements a few days ago.

Right now I'm Dosing:

7 or so drops of Pohls every other day alternating with 3 drops of LPS Amino. This is about 1/3 of the recommended dose. I plan to do this for a couple of weeks, then start the sponge power and Coral Vitalizer at 1-2 drops a couple of times per week. Sound like a plan to you Zeo heads?

BTW, since adding those extra fish and feeding more, my skimmer is pulling out much darker stuff.

I have noticed a little increase in algae on the frag plugs, but not any on the rock. There is also a reddish film algae I've noticed lately. It kind of looks like a cross between hair algae and cyano. I've been through cyano in the past, I don't think that's it. I did refresh my GFO, but still only running a very small amount. Will refresh my CPE next week, but only plan on using a very small amount.

One of the acros that was totally bleached is developing some blue at the tip of the coralite, and the new polyps are glowing so hopefully that's a good sign.

 

[Ckyuv]

I went through the same thing for the past few months, I thought it was from a light change but nothing improved. I removed my filter sock, added 3 fish and started feeding twice as much and now my corals and fish both look more happy! I have been adding zeo food7 twice a week as well and I'm very happy with results. I only run a skimmer and bio pellets so I can't say one way or another about carbon but I can say I'm glad I'm not the only one with a mean looking golden

 

[Jcreefer1]

Hi Rovster,

You've gotten some pretty good information above. A good rule of thumb is... you should have algae on your glass every two to three days. It should be a thin brown film. If your going a week without algae, its a good indicator of a tank that is to clean. Target phosphates betwen .01 and .03. Target nitrate of .2. The trick is to match your feeding with your filtration. Your going to need to test on a daily basis to find this balance, but when you do... stick with it. Over time, your stability will lead to steady growth and beautiful sps coloration.

On a related note, if your running low nutrients and your using carbon, you can cause your corals to become even paler. I use just enough to keep my water clear.

On a final note (for those that use bacteria/carbon dosing), you can get what appears to be a diatom bloom when you run your trates and phates at 0 for long periods of time. The "algae" (possibly bacterial driven) develops into long stringy brown patches. This will go away once your nutrient levels are elevated to the target params mentioned above.

Happy Holidays,
James

Good advise James !

 

[Jcreefer1]

Tremendous amount of great info on this thread.....I think this is a common problem among us SPS keepers. Thanks to all.

 

[CUNAReefer]

Good advise James !

Thank you Jcreefer!

@Rovster - Your going to have to increase your feeding and testing, but you will eventually find the right balance. The trick is to feed as much as possible (I like Oyster Feast) will still staying within your target params. Test every day to see how your parameters react. As strange as this sounds, you can eliminate your algae issues with more feeding. I'm pretty sure the "algae" you are seeing is long brown/reddish. Almost like long stringy strands of slime.

Good luck,
James

 

[trueblackpercula]

Thank you Jcreefer!

@Rovster - Your going to have to increase your feeding and testing, but you will eventually find the right balance. The trick is to feed as much as possible (I like Oyster Feast) will still staying within your target params. Test every day to see how your parameters react. As strange as this sounds, you can eliminate your algae issues with more feeding. I'm pretty sure the "algae" you are seeing is long brown/reddish. Almost like long stringy strands of slime.

Good luck,
James

Dead on advice

 

[Glazner]

Thanks all, excellent info

 

[Flexin5]

Thank you Jcreefer!

@Rovster - Your going to have to increase your feeding and testing, but you will eventually find the right balance. The trick is to feed as much as possible (I like Oyster Feast) will still staying within your target params. Test every day to see how your parameters react. As strange as this sounds, you can eliminate your algae issues with more feeding. I'm pretty sure the "algae" you are seeing is long brown/reddish. Almost like long stringy strands of slime.

Good luck,
James

like this?



lucky for me it's all in the refugium in the sump. that's the only algae I have in the system, with the exception of a small rock in the display that get green slime (it's also at the lowest part of flow in the tank)

 

[cumbeje]

I had that same problem. Came back from vacation and ALK had dropped from 9.8 to 7.5. Slowly raised ALK and color is coming back. Check ALK.

 

[Arc Drafter]

WOW, there is a lot of information and terms this hill billy can't understand. Sometimes I wonder if people actually know what they are talking about or just googling scientific terms and using them. I appreciate those of you put things in terms we, or at least this hill billy, can understand.

I have noticed since I started feeding more heavily and decreasing my wc from 2 weeks to 3 weeks -- not for any specific reason just lazy/busy/lazy. I have had better growth in both my SPS and algea... It is no surprise I got algae since I have not had a cuc in almost a year now. Well anyway it was a nice tread to follow and has me re-motivated to bring my nutrients down.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Mine is worse then that

 

[Flexin5]

sorry for bumping,

i started to dose phol's xtra, took GFO and carbon off line, and things have gotten brown. i also took the intensities down of the AI sols/hydra before aswell by about 20%. (10%/week), i've been feeding oyster feast, and reef roids everyday aswell as 4 pinches of flake soaked in vitachem and 4 drops of garlic xtreme.

tested and everything was good, PO4 = .02 w/hanna and nitrates are 0.2 with salifert test kit.

so what do you guys think? turn up the lights? cut the zeo in half? put carbon and/or gfo back online?

thanks very much!

 

[ReefCowboy]

I had some sps become pale after adding a big skimmer and Rox/RowaPhos in a reactor. Water clarity was excellent, but i wasnt happy witht he corals.

Taking the advice given here, added a small foxface, a pair of clowns and a green chromis to my tank(it only had a small yellow/blue tangs fed very lightly once a day for maybe a year).
Started feeding heavily and the nice blue tips of my acros started coloring up in just 2 weeks...

Tomorrow am taking offline the reactor and will go back to the usual phosban GFO and never again use carbon, especially the Rox. That stuff is really powerful, but strips everything from the water. Im curious to see what will happen over the next weeks with the tank only having gfo and the usual weekly wc's.
Hopefuly it will go back to the colorful way it was before i changed things around.

 

[rovster]

Just to update my situation, I started feeding heavy......too heavy, LOL! Can't really see an improvement in color, phos is still low at 0.03 but nitrates are way too high. I'm getting a little algae, but not too bad. Was also adding some zeo additives at like 25% of recommended dose. I'm thinking of adding vinegar to the mix so I can continue to feed heavy and maybe bring nitrates down. By no means am I trying for an ULNS, just trying to balance everything out. Have a big water change planned for this weekend.

 

[rovster]

I think I went overboard on the feeding, LOL! A bit of an algae problem, but very minor. I will say, the bleached pieces are coloring up now, and all of my acros and milles are looking more decent.

SPS row...


My bonsai went from pale blue, to deep blue, and yesterday I noticed a little brown, so I'm gonna back off a bit. Still trying to find the balance. Nitrates are running high now, but Phos still in check.

 

[Flexin5]

thought I'd toss up an update, I've been dosing 4mls of zeovit over the last 3 weeks. it's darkened up some corals well, I've also took GFO and carbon offline, and I have phosphates sitting at 0.02 with hanna and nitrates are .2 with salifert. ontop of that I've been feeding a bit more flake, added a couple more fish (even tho one jumped yesterday) and have been feeding 1teaspoon of oysterfeast every night and a pinch of reef roids about 3 times a week.

this red planet has had 0 color before, and I thought it was completely dead.

when I got this colony it had no color, I was hoping to have it color up and was trying for the longest time, different spots in the tank etc etc. now it's showing signs of color, mostly where the branches split

this acro was totally dead before. it actually came back, had no color but took off in growth, growing over the old dead skeleton I'm guessing. now it's starting to show color, a very nice pink acro, it's been so long that I forgot what color it was supposed to be haha

forest fire digi. fantastic growth, just trying to get the blue base and yellow tips going again, getting better but has a ways to go imo

I stopped dosing the zeovit two days ago, I think things are dark enough and don't want to risk everything going brown; I also saw this new patch of red slime algae, the only algae in the display.

 

[jroovers]

Hi Jason, colours are looking good! It is hard finding that fine line between too much and too little nutrient. I recently changed my shallow substrate and despite weeks of rinsing, it has definitely introduced enough nutrient for cyano to grow. I don't think I have too much nutrient in the water column, just in the sand bed for the time being. Siphon that out if you can and as you've done, back off the dosing of roids and oysterfeast a bit, and you'll find the balance soon enough.