I was hoping someone else would speak up. They didn't, so I'm speaking for myself about The Old Club (TOC)
And Phlj - shame on you.
Shame on me for what? For speaking my mind, the same as you have.
I never go to the website that was created by TOC, but too bad I missed that election thread. Why wasn't that posted here if we're supposed to be some sort of sister club? Perhaps if the existing members would have known about it, they could have talked to the governing board about their feelings and about how they should place their votes. Of coarse that would mean the board members would have to attend a member meeting.
The election was held at a club meeting. This club was not even in existence at the time. You were a member at the time but elected not to come to the meeting.
When was "long term members" defined in order to be able to vote? That's funny! Exactly how long do you have to be a member to vote? How long do you have to be a member before your notified that a vote is taking place? It sounds like everyone met and voted each other in one day. That's a good idea. Our club can do that.
If you want you can copy and paste the rules of the club here and how people can become part of the governing body. I felt that it would be a bad idea for people to become moderators of the club without showing interest in the club and service to it. This is why you can only become an moderator after you have met certain requirements. But anyone who meets the requirements are able to apply to become a club moderator. Each moderator has one vote in the governing body.
Wow, I guess you can say anything. I can't believe your trying to pass that off as anything like a member based election and expect anyone to believe it. That's quite an event for you to announce late in this clubs forum. If TOC is so organized and has changed to a member voting club, when's the next election? Surely it's scheduled.
It happens everytime someone reaches the requirements. If they do not want to be part of the governing body they just do not apply. We do not hold elections for officers as we no longer have them. I was voted in as vice president of the CVRC before the split.
IMO the recent rule changes and token appointments/elections were due to a failing membership base and lack of attendance. It would have never happened just because it was the right thing to do.
It had nothing to do with those but you can see it as you like. As a fact our club now has more members than it has ever had in the past. However, many of them do not come to meets but they are active in the club forums. I would still like to see more involvement at actual meetings.
Truth be known:
If TOC members had voting rights along time ago, I wouldn't have changed a single member. Not even the president. (I may have voted against some non-attending board members (who are now the non-attending vote base)) go figure.
I never wanted to be part of the governing body myself. I had been asked several times before I accepted the nomination. I did feel that it was important for members to have the right to vote on issues. However, I can also see why it is important not to allow just anyone who attends a meeting to vote. I think you should have some requirements to be able to vote. This is why we have a system to ensure people who become part of the governing body of our board have helped the club through service and donating time to it. This way you do not get people governing the club who know nothing about it, running it into the ground.
It was the arrogance displayed by a few who thought they owned the show, and could never be replaced, that drove all of this. I knew the thought of a vote would cause some to be more humble.
I agree to some extent with what your saying. I believe if people show interest and work for the promotion of the club they should have a voice in running it. I believe this problem has been addressed with the new system. I think our club will never need a president again.
The final straw was when club funds were going to be used to buy frags and the president was going to give them to his most trusted members and everyone else was to just get on some waiting list and you may or may not be chosen at an undisclosed later date.
Club funds have never been used to buy frags since I have been involved with this club and as far as I know they were never used for it. Again, you could ask people that were on the council if this happened as I was not.
If your talking about the chain corals they were not bought with club funds. They were donated mostly by Roger and some other members. It would have been complete neglect to give them to just anyone. Considering some people do not have the equipment to keep certain coral and they would have died. So I guess your complaining that the club should have just gave the frag to whoever wanted it through a raffle system or something and let it die. That would have gone against our mission of propogation. I can't believe you could even say it is wrong for someone to donate a frag so others could have it for free with the only requirement being they would have to be able to keep it alive. Then pass new cuttings on to other member who could keep it alive.
This same president has complained about strangers buying and leaving with his rare coral from the swaps. It became clear why he had the pampas attitude towards newcomers.
Maybe if you bought it online for $100 or so you would have also complained if it came up missing. I cannot speak for others but I have never complained about my stuff being stolen.
I think most people in the club try to deter people from buying things they cannot keep. I think this is looking out for the livestock. Plus it ensures people do not come back and say he sold me something and knew I could not keep it and I paid good money for it. So I guess your damned both ways. If you sell something and it dies you only wanted the money. If you dont sell your excluding someone.
Yet, you all sell coral online to anyone that will pay.
How do you know? I always ask people about their tanks to try to make sure they dont get something and then it dies. I think this goes back to why, not all people get chain corals. I sell to offset my tank costs. or to buy new livestock or equipment. I am sure you have done the same. I also enjoy trading for things I dont have. I cannot speak of others and how they sell. Besides who are you to tell someone who they can or cant sell to, is it any of your business?
You don't need a know it all for president, you just need someone that has a love of the hobby, has great organizational skills and can delegate.
This is true but you do need to know some. This is why we set up a system to show people have some knowledge and service hours before they can get into the governing body of the club.
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More about your last couple of post
I see no need to belong to both clubs either. Perhaps one shouldn't burn their bridges.
If your saying I should not burn bridges. I think people know me well enough that I would do just about anything they ask if they needed help. I think my character stands for itself. I would like to know how many others can say the same. Also if bridges need burnt that is fine with me but I would rather it not be that way.
I didn't say regime, but monarchy is a better choice since you mentioned it.
I dont think if the whole system was changed for your benefit you would be happy with it.
If someone felt or was mistreated, what hard evidence do they need for you? I guess everyone imagined it.
I believe there have been people who have felt mistreated in the past. Usually I think it has been over misunderstandings or miscommunications. Sometimes its hard to convey what you really want to say when you write it and do not talk to someone in person. I have made numerous attempts to keep this from happening again in our club.
Who do you think you are? You and I personally have had many conversations about this topic.
I think I am the same today as I was a few years ago. I have always tried to right anything people have ever brought up to me. Which puts me into a position that has made a lot of people mad at me at times. Including officers and members of the old club.
You yourself said you kept playing because it was the only game in town. You said you needed them and you had to keep going.
This is untrue. I do not need the club but I enjoy it. I enjoy meeting with others that have interests in this hobby. I have at times not been happy with the way the club was ran in the past. I think most of those problems have been addressed.
If you say you liked it so much, why all the recent changes that you're here bragging about?
I like it much more now since the changes have been implemented. A couple of things I pushed for were opening of vendor forums and reviews. I still believe the club should not be a means for advertisement of stores that do not sponsor us.
Both side of the mouth isn't as two faced as both sides of the fence
I think there are a lot people who are riding the fence on creating a new club not only me. So I guess your saying this to all of us. I would be up for another club in the area if it is not just a means to focus animosity towards others.
Now, It sounds like you'd stop us if you could and I'll keep your advice in mind.
I do not want to stop anything except the perpetual bad mouthing. I could care less if there were numerous reef clubs in the area. Actually, I am for having as many as the area could support if they were benefitial to promoting the hobby. But with the way things are going I think this club is turning out to be a place where people go to rant and there is no need for this.
I don't blame your for trying to defend TOC. You've worked your butt off for them.
I have worked my butt off for the club and for its members that is why your post is such a slap in the face to me and some others. Who have really tried to promote the hobby.
Less attendance at their swaps affects your pocket,
Actually, it really does not mean much to me. If I want to sell frags it is not a problem if there is or is not a local club. Most of the coral I have people in the area are not even interested in. As it is not beginner coral which most people are looking for.
I would like to see more participation in the club meetings but not for any financial gain but so people would know what is needed to keep tanks and not being misinformed by some stores.
but I don't feel this forum is where you need to be selling TOC at. It's almost sounding new and improved for those that don't know the background.
Like I said, there have been issues in the past I have worked to get them straightened out. I think most of those issues were because of miscommunications or misunderstandings. I am sure once the new club gets up and running there will be numerous amendments that will need to be made as you will not think of everything at the beginning. These are called growing pains and will need to be addressed from time to time.
How are the CD sales going? Need I elaborate?
I have no idea what your talking about so please elaborate.
President, Appointed Vice President, Elected Officer, Governing Body Member, etc, etc. I'm not up the latest name changes nor do I care. I'm still calling a spade a spade.
Well, this is your opinion and your entitled to it. I just say when the new club starts make sure to take care of the problems beforehand so you dont have to deal with as many problems later on. I do think your wrong in your last part of the statement specifically, the club has changed for the better imo. Of course that is all it is an opinion the same as yours. Btw, I was not appointed and no longer hold the title anyway.
I certainly haven't heard anyone else's opinion that TOC held real elections. Of coarse you'd say an election was held - you won.
Well, that is probably because they did not come to the meeting. Which will probably be the case in the new club also. A lot of bickering online and no real action from certain members.
Personally I would have voted for you too, but not for VP.
This latest rhetoric is unlike the guy I new.
Like I said, there have been changes made. But it probably wont matter for some as they continue to hold animosity against others. I am not against a new club being formed. As long as it is in the interest of all involved. But I am against people continually bringing up problems from years ago just to prove a point. I think if your really for starting up a new club then do it but quit going on about how our club is not benefited its members. All that does is create division.
Oh, If you think I'm going to stand by, then your wrong.
And speechless? Ha Ha Ha Ha HA
