What is your favorite Angel?
- Thread starter petedoc
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Zoom
Premium Member
no no problem with sps or softies.RARZILLO said:
but they like the open brains red or green. and green zoanthus, any meat fleshy coral they will eat it i have no problems with them picking on the clams but if you put a new one in your tank be sure you cover the clam with a strawberry basket for two or three days.
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mattsilvester
Team RC
OK, can I vote again 
my personal favourite angel, but i never mention it because they are just demons is the Passer angel. What a gorgeous juv ..... and what a different fish when mature ..... well the pics I see of full grown adults are just dark blue with a yellow tail and a white stripe ..... a far cry from the beauty of the "garish" angels. But I think it is their sublte beauty - it is almost a relief from the colours of other reef fish, and atthe same time gorgeous.
To my mind, alot of the most beautiful angels just get either too big or too aggressive. Like the French and Grey - I know a guy at the moment with a french that has grown from 2" to 6" in 6 months...... I have no doubt this fish is gonna get 18" !!! And it is not just long, but the disk shape makes them all round bigger than say a queen.... they are altogether a more "solid" fish. To my mind, this fish is gonna need a 500 gal tank.
I'd agree the less colourful angels are just as beautiful as the colourful ones. It is just the seem out of grasp to most aquarists. Just my thoughts of course - it is the only reason I ain't got a french.
Matt
my personal favourite angel, but i never mention it because they are just demons is the Passer angel. What a gorgeous juv ..... and what a different fish when mature ..... well the pics I see of full grown adults are just dark blue with a yellow tail and a white stripe ..... a far cry from the beauty of the "garish" angels. But I think it is their sublte beauty - it is almost a relief from the colours of other reef fish, and atthe same time gorgeous.
To my mind, alot of the most beautiful angels just get either too big or too aggressive. Like the French and Grey - I know a guy at the moment with a french that has grown from 2" to 6" in 6 months...... I have no doubt this fish is gonna get 18" !!! And it is not just long, but the disk shape makes them all round bigger than say a queen.... they are altogether a more "solid" fish. To my mind, this fish is gonna need a 500 gal tank.
I'd agree the less colourful angels are just as beautiful as the colourful ones. It is just the seem out of grasp to most aquarists. Just my thoughts of course - it is the only reason I ain't got a french.
Matt
I don't quite get this size thing with the french angels?
French's grow to 15.0" Everyone seems to think they need a 500 gallon?
Comparison:
Queen's grow to 18.0" - lots of you guys seem to have them...and don't have a 500 gallon?
Koran's and Imperor's grow to 15" ..same thing with them, it seems alot of you keep them in 180's or so???
Also, I'd like to add that I believe the flagfin (Apolemichthys trimaculatus) is a fish that is understated in beauty. Picture's no matter how good do not do them justice. In real life they are absolutely stunning! They're not really yellow, but more like flakes of gold.
It's like looking at a picture of a chunk of gold and then comparing it to holding the same piece in the sunlight.
cheers!
French's grow to 15.0" Everyone seems to think they need a 500 gallon?
Comparison:
Queen's grow to 18.0" - lots of you guys seem to have them...and don't have a 500 gallon?
Koran's and Imperor's grow to 15" ..same thing with them, it seems alot of you keep them in 180's or so???
Also, I'd like to add that I believe the flagfin (Apolemichthys trimaculatus) is a fish that is understated in beauty. Picture's no matter how good do not do them justice. In real life they are absolutely stunning! They're not really yellow, but more like flakes of gold.
It's like looking at a picture of a chunk of gold and then comparing it to holding the same piece in the sunlight.
cheers!
seasquirt
Premium Member
My favorite angel is the coral beauty, because he's the one I have right now! I love his personality and his appearance. He's very robust, eats very well, and is a calming presence to my skittish rabbitfish. So cute!
I had an adult emperor, though. I loved him and would get another one when the time is right. It's so cool to have a fish that grunts at you when he's hungry.
I had an adult emperor, though. I loved him and would get another one when the time is right. It's so cool to have a fish that grunts at you when he's hungry.
Jimbo
New member
Chicki,
Here's the deal with french angels. Not only do they grow to 15" in the wild, they will do so in a 150 gallon tank in short order! This is not typical of most large angels, and indeed, most larger marine fish in general. For instance, an emperor gets to be pretty good size, however they do not attain their full adult size in captivity. So, while you would IN THEORY need a 300 gallon tank for a full adult imperator to swim around in comfort, the reality is that it will not reach it's full adult size. If it comes close, it will take forever and a day. Imperators typicaly get to 9" or so, then slow way down in growth rate.
A french angel on the other hand will go from being the size of a nickle, almost a foot long, and full adult color inside of a year.
See the difference?
Flagfin angels by the way make very poor captives for the most part.
Regards
Jim
Here's the deal with french angels. Not only do they grow to 15" in the wild, they will do so in a 150 gallon tank in short order! This is not typical of most large angels, and indeed, most larger marine fish in general. For instance, an emperor gets to be pretty good size, however they do not attain their full adult size in captivity. So, while you would IN THEORY need a 300 gallon tank for a full adult imperator to swim around in comfort, the reality is that it will not reach it's full adult size. If it comes close, it will take forever and a day. Imperators typicaly get to 9" or so, then slow way down in growth rate.
A french angel on the other hand will go from being the size of a nickle, almost a foot long, and full adult color inside of a year.
See the difference?
Flagfin angels by the way make very poor captives for the most part.
Regards
Jim
mattsilvester
Team RC
Chiki,
Jimbo hit the nail on the head really. French angels will actually attain, or at least get close to their nature adult size - where as most other angels, under average circumstances, will not. That is not to say we don't all try to get te full size out of our fish, but no matter how hard you try, and emporer just simply won't get above 12" ..... and neither will a queen ..... unfortunately.
The fact that a french will get to its max size, even in less than ideal conditions (i.e. a 15" fish in a 150), is a testiment to how suitable it is for captivity. But there in lies the catch. They are so accomodating and so addaptable that is makes them difficult to manage.
The last thing about french angels, compared to even say a queen angel, is the they are round. While a queen could be say 12" long, they are most likely about 6" high. On the other hand, a 12" french is near on 12" high. In addition to this, while a 12" queen might be say an inch in thickness, a 12" french is say 1 1/2". They are altogether a bigger fish, even when compared inch to inch to a different species.
So, what real difference will this make? Well if you put a french into say a 180, buy the time you put LR in there, and more than likely have a DSB, then the fish would be lucky to have 20" of water to swim in (depth). So, in my view, they should really have a tank of at least 30" depth - and it should be 30" wide too, as their body proportions make them less manouverable than other angels. Lastly, when it comes to aquascaping, if you want to provide some decent shelter for the fish, your gonna need alot more room to aquascape in - though most folks just give up, and put a couple of big pieces for the fish to swim around. Which I totally disagree with - angels need a place that they can swim into, and feel safe.
Hope that celars up your query chiki I was of te same opinion to you -when an internet buddy got rid of his 12", 18 month old french, that he absolutely loved. Then he explained about how BIG a 12" disk is compared to a 12" x 6" oval shape.
Regards,
Matt
Jimbo hit the nail on the head really. French angels will actually attain, or at least get close to their nature adult size - where as most other angels, under average circumstances, will not. That is not to say we don't all try to get te full size out of our fish, but no matter how hard you try, and emporer just simply won't get above 12" ..... and neither will a queen ..... unfortunately.
The fact that a french will get to its max size, even in less than ideal conditions (i.e. a 15" fish in a 150), is a testiment to how suitable it is for captivity. But there in lies the catch. They are so accomodating and so addaptable that is makes them difficult to manage.
The last thing about french angels, compared to even say a queen angel, is the they are round. While a queen could be say 12" long, they are most likely about 6" high. On the other hand, a 12" french is near on 12" high. In addition to this, while a 12" queen might be say an inch in thickness, a 12" french is say 1 1/2". They are altogether a bigger fish, even when compared inch to inch to a different species.
So, what real difference will this make? Well if you put a french into say a 180, buy the time you put LR in there, and more than likely have a DSB, then the fish would be lucky to have 20" of water to swim in (depth). So, in my view, they should really have a tank of at least 30" depth - and it should be 30" wide too, as their body proportions make them less manouverable than other angels. Lastly, when it comes to aquascaping, if you want to provide some decent shelter for the fish, your gonna need alot more room to aquascape in - though most folks just give up, and put a couple of big pieces for the fish to swim around. Which I totally disagree with - angels need a place that they can swim into, and feel safe.
Hope that celars up your query chiki
I was of te same opinion to you -when an internet buddy got rid of his 12", 18 month old french, that he absolutely loved. Then he explained about how BIG a 12" disk is compared to a 12" x 6" oval shape. Regards,
Matt
ckuhndog77
New member
Rfbeauchamp
New member
Majestic, hands down!!!
I have a question that is a little off track with this discussion. Can you keep any kind of corals, shrooms, polpys or anything like that with Angles or will they eat and pick at everything? If there are some things (besides LR) you can safely keep with Angels please let me know. Thanks.
mattsilvester
Team RC
The angels that get really big, or really aggressive, from what I hear, tend to pick at just about everything in time. e.g. passer angel - I have heard of them picking and ripping at everything. Queen angel - I have heard big specimens can be destructive.
From what I hear also, most fish, even "coral eaters" don't have much interest in shrooms and leathers - they are just to vial tasting. The majority of the more commonly kept angels, apparently are ok. Emporer, majestic, blueface, regal, french ..... etc etc etc.
But it is all only a guide.
My opinion is that a well fed angel simply won't be hungry enough, or interested in, eating vial tasting corals, providing they are in a nice big tank with loads of LR and loads to do to keep them out of mischief.
HTH
Matt
From what I hear also, most fish, even "coral eaters" don't have much interest in shrooms and leathers - they are just to vial tasting. The majority of the more commonly kept angels, apparently are ok. Emporer, majestic, blueface, regal, french ..... etc etc etc.
But it is all only a guide.
My opinion is that a well fed angel simply won't be hungry enough, or interested in, eating vial tasting corals, providing they are in a nice big tank with loads of LR and loads to do to keep them out of mischief.
HTH
Matt
coralite
registered member
Mattsilver,
you are wrong in your statement that only the french angel reaches full size in captivity. Most large angels live 20+ years and never stop growing but how many people do you know have had holocanthus and pomacanthus that long? the difference between the French and alot of the others is that it grows big quick. It tends to put on 2-3 inches a yr for 3-4 yrs before the growth rate slows down whereas the pacific pomacanthus, chaetodontoplus and euxiphipops put on a steady inch a yr except maybe for the first 2 yrs where they grow a little faster. Get a blueface angel and keep it 20 yrs and see how big it gets.
you are wrong in your statement that only the french angel reaches full size in captivity. Most large angels live 20+ years and never stop growing but how many people do you know have had holocanthus and pomacanthus that long? the difference between the French and alot of the others is that it grows big quick. It tends to put on 2-3 inches a yr for 3-4 yrs before the growth rate slows down whereas the pacific pomacanthus, chaetodontoplus and euxiphipops put on a steady inch a yr except maybe for the first 2 yrs where they grow a little faster. Get a blueface angel and keep it 20 yrs and see how big it gets.
mattsilvester
Team RC
coralite,
I do know of a guy that has a queen angel for 13 or 14 yrs. Another guy, M.Dandaneau (whom is very active in te FO forum) has kept a queen for more than that, in a 300 gal system, and his didn't reach 18" either. I belive his got to a little over a foot - as did the other guy. The first guy I mention still has his.
I still don't think a average angel species will reach its full size in captivity - for two reasons. First, most angels do not adapt 100% to the diet we feed them, hence they grow slower than they would in the wild. I think if you compare a 5 yrs old captive emperor, to a 5 yr old wild specimen, the wild specimen will probably be near on full size, but the captive one will probably be 8 to 10" max.
Secondly, as you said, how many people actually manage to keep these fish for 20 yrs? In the care of an average aquarist, in an average system, then my guess is not very many, despite out best efforts. Hence, by your arguement, if they do not live long enough, they will not get to full size. Hence, by that arguement, the biggest that they'll get is most likely be less than 12". I'd agree that if you put an emporer angel in a 180, from the outset, and feed a good diet, and have 200 or 300 lbs of really great LR, have a great system, do plenty of regular good quality water changes, keep no other large fish (i.e. only chromis and gobies etc), then I can see this fish growing very quickly, and living very long, and probably outgrowing the 180 and needing a 240. But in reality, who does? In reality, hom many people keep angels like that? Most folks will throw in a couple of tangs, have a bit less LR, not do enough water chages, not feed enough good food, and in general, have a pretty average system.
Hence, I'll stand by my arguement that most angels under average circumstances will not achieve anywhere near their natural size - simply because we are no where near as good as mother nature when it comes to caring for these fish. Its just that frenches seem to be different, probably more adaptable - they live longer, grow faster, and get bigger than any other angel in captivity.
Regards,
Matt
I do know of a guy that has a queen angel for 13 or 14 yrs. Another guy, M.Dandaneau (whom is very active in te FO forum) has kept a queen for more than that, in a 300 gal system, and his didn't reach 18" either. I belive his got to a little over a foot - as did the other guy. The first guy I mention still has his.
I still don't think a average angel species will reach its full size in captivity - for two reasons. First, most angels do not adapt 100% to the diet we feed them, hence they grow slower than they would in the wild. I think if you compare a 5 yrs old captive emperor, to a 5 yr old wild specimen, the wild specimen will probably be near on full size, but the captive one will probably be 8 to 10" max.
Secondly, as you said, how many people actually manage to keep these fish for 20 yrs? In the care of an average aquarist, in an average system, then my guess is not very many, despite out best efforts. Hence, by your arguement, if they do not live long enough, they will not get to full size. Hence, by that arguement, the biggest that they'll get is most likely be less than 12". I'd agree that if you put an emporer angel in a 180, from the outset, and feed a good diet, and have 200 or 300 lbs of really great LR, have a great system, do plenty of regular good quality water changes, keep no other large fish (i.e. only chromis and gobies etc), then I can see this fish growing very quickly, and living very long, and probably outgrowing the 180 and needing a 240. But in reality, who does? In reality, hom many people keep angels like that? Most folks will throw in a couple of tangs, have a bit less LR, not do enough water chages, not feed enough good food, and in general, have a pretty average system.
Hence, I'll stand by my arguement that most angels under average circumstances will not achieve anywhere near their natural size - simply because we are no where near as good as mother nature when it comes to caring for these fish. Its just that frenches seem to be different, probably more adaptable - they live longer, grow faster, and get bigger than any other angel in captivity.
Regards,
Matt
Leopardshark
New member
My favorites are :
majestic
imperator
asfur
regal
queen
clarion
conspic
blueface
... well, almost every angel.
Here is a pic of mines
this is the asfur (not a good pic)
majestic
imperator
asfur
regal
queen
clarion
conspic
blueface
... well, almost every angel.
Here is a pic of mines
this is the asfur (not a good pic)
Jimbo, I just wanted to comment on your flagfin statement. According to MS's book you are correct. But I know of two people here personally that have bought them and had nothing but good luck with them, they ate almost immediately after arrival and have thrived in their tanks. One is a couple years old. This is why I decided to try one. Mine also seemed to adjust very quickly and ate right away. He was eating from my hand in the first week...not skiddish at all. He loves mysis and angel marine but will eat all types of algaes and flake food as well.
