What to do with clown eggs

[pweissma]

My ORA ocellaris are breeding again. They stopped for a couple months after I changed my aquascape and removed some rocks. Previously they laid their eggs on a large rock that I removed. I gave them a nice small flat rock directly under their RBTA. It took awhile but now I have a 2" diameter circle of orange eggs in the middle of the rock. I have no desire to raise the fry but I'm wondering if it would be possible to give away (or sell?) the fry from a future spawn. I imagine there may be a lot of people who may want to try to raise them.

 

[ClownfishSushi]

My ORA ocellaris are breeding again. They stopped for a couple months after I changed my aquascape and removed some rocks. Previously they laid their eggs on a large rock that I removed. I gave them a nice small flat rock directly under their RBTA. It took awhile but now I have a 2" diameter circle of orange eggs in the middle of the rock. I have no desire to raise the fry but I'm wondering if it would be possible to give away (or sell?) the fry from a future spawn. I imagine there may be a lot of people who may want to try to raise them.

This is virtually impossible. The mortality rate would push 99.9% transporting fry or eggs. Sorry.

 

[pweissma]

thanks

 

[hobogato]

actually, if you have someone local, it can be done. i had a success rate over 50% of a batch that i moved to my house the night they hatched.

here is the thread where i documented it:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062633

 

[jbax]

if you get them to lay on a tile on the flat rock. on hatch night switch the tile. it is possible.

 

[ClownfishSushi]

actually, if you have someone local, it can be done. i had a success rate over 50% of a batch that i moved to my house the night they hatched.

here is the thread where i documented it:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062633

The guy who aquacultures cuttlefish can only get a 50% survival rate. What do you think the average reefer is realistically going to accomplish here? :lol2:

I'll grant you that transporting a tile locally on hatch night is possible. But I really don't think it's advisable or what the OP had in mind. Transporting fry certainly isn't a good idea.

 

[billsreef]

I wouldn't go by cuttlefish rates

Eggs on a rock or tile will be easy to transport so long as you don't try and remove the eggs from the substrate. The trick here is to transport them damp, but not submerged in water. This keeps them from both drying out, and keeps them highly oxygenated without forming low oxygen zones that might form if they are transported in water. Fairly standard for transport of fish eggs in the aquaculture industry. I've dealt with shipping of fish eggs (different species) cross country with great sucess

Larvae are a bit more delicate. Best sucess would be night of hatch before they would begin feeding, and after they have had a few days growth. Loss rates at larval stages will be higher than with transporting eggs, with much depending on how they are handled and length of time they are transported.

 

[ClownfishSushi]

I wouldn't go by cuttlefish rates

Eggs on a rock or tile will be easy to transport so long as you don't try and remove the eggs from the substrate. The trick here is to transport them damp, but not submerged in water. This keeps them from both drying out, and keeps them highly oxygenated without forming low oxygen zones that might form if they are transported in water. Fairly standard for transport of fish eggs in the aquaculture industry. I've dealt with shipping of fish eggs (different species) cross country with great sucess

Larvae are a bit more delicate. Best sucess would be night of hatch before they would begin feeding, and after they have had a few days growth. Loss rates at larval stages will be higher than with transporting eggs, with much depending on how they are handled and length of time they are transported.

I never thought of transporting them out of the water. That makes a lot of sense as far as oxygenating them.

A degree or two of difference has wiped many spawns for me. Do the eggs really tolerate the radical temperature variations they would suffer as a result of transporting them out of water?

 

[billsreef]

You do need to protect them from temperature change as best you can, but yes the eggs are surprisingly rugged. We used to use Igloo thermoses for shipping eggs, did a great job of holding temperature. Even with larval fish, I'd suspect other changes and stressors over a simple degree or two difference in water temperature. Even the reef where these critters originate is not that stable in temperature

 

[pweissma]

It would be a local transit. I'm not about to ship. I'm in nyc and there's plenty of reefers here. Anyone reading this want to give it a try? I'm in 11218.

 

[billsreef]

We are looking at shipping eggs, any extra info would be awesome Billsreef

We used these thermoses for overnight shipping via FedEx. Depending on time of year and expected temp extremes in shipping, you might also want to include a bag of water at the appropriate temp in order to ensure the eggs remain at a good temperature. The eggs themselves should be in their own bag with just enough drips of water to ensure they do not dry out, and sealed up with plenty of air.

It would be a local transit. I'm not about to ship. I'm in nyc and there's plenty of reefers here. Anyone reading this want to give it a try? I'm in 11218.

You should try asking in the LIRA or NY Reef Club. There are a couple of guys in the NYC and LI area that are rearing clowns.

 

[GreshamH]

This is virtually impossible. The mortality rate would push 99.9% transporting fry or eggs. Sorry.

Sounds like you are unaware of the work Rising Tide Conservation is doing?

I'd love to know how you arrived at 99.9%?

http://packedhead.net/2011/amblyglyphidodon-ternatensis-and-rising-tide/

http://risingtideconservation.blogspot.com/2011/11/eggs-and-larvae-from-public-zoos-and.html

All those species arrived as either eggs or larvae from other institutions.

 

[ClownfishSushi]

Sounds like you are unaware of the work Rising Tide Conservation is doing?

I'd love to know how you arrived at 99.9%?

http://packedhead.net/2011/amblyglyphidodon-ternatensis-and-rising-tide/

http://risingtideconservation.blogspot.com/2011/11/eggs-and-larvae-from-public-zoos-and.html

All those species arrived as either eggs or larvae from other institutions.

I think you need to re-read the original post because Bill took us off topic. Let me quote the relevant section of the original post to which I responded for you:

"I'm wondering if it would be possible to give away (or sell?) the fry from a future spawn."

Where in this post does it talk about an experienced hatchery transporting eggs? This is a question from a complete novice asking if he can basically scrape the eggs off his rock or scoop up some fry, put them in a zip lock bag and ship them for a profit. This is impossible.

In my experience too much light can kill fry. Too little light can kill fry. Too many rotifers can kill the fry. Too few rotifers can kill the fry. Too high a temperature can kill the fry. Too low a temperature can kill the fry. Too many air bubbles can kill the fry. Too few air bubbles can kill the fry... you get my point. These things are extremely delicate.

I conceded awhile back that transporting eggs is feasible. But a novice asking a question like this is basically looking to scrape the eggs off his rock or siphon the fry into a plastic bag and ship them. Mortalilty rate: GUARANTEED 99.9%. Tell me you'd pay money for the eggs he scraped off a rock or unfed fry that never have the opportunity to develop their hunting skills on day 1. :deadhorse:

 

[vwwanksta69]

Locally it could work. I would start using a pot or tile though so you can transport them on hatch night. This week we pulled a pot and drove for about ten minutes and tonight they all hatched.

 

[pweissma]

OP here. As far a being a novice, well compared to you guys regarding breeding I haven't entered the arena. As far as the hobby goes I like to think I've taken a few steps beyond novice although I have a long way to go. Anyway, I never said anything about scraping eggs off the rocks. This seems like a such a bad idea. What I did say is that the eggs are on a small flat rock. I thought it was clear that I was suggesting giving away the rock with the eggs and I think most contributers understood this.

 

[ClownfishSushi]

I thought it was clear that I was suggesting giving away the rock with the eggs and I think most contributers understood this.

It wasn't clear at all but I must apologize for my tone after re-reading my last post. I moved a tank last night after a long day at work and I was a bit on the defensive.

You suggested giving (or selling) the fry, not the eggs. There is a huge difference. Transporting eggs is one thing, transporting fry is another which puts the fry at a tremendous disadvantage from the start.

People swap out tiles and clay pots all the time, but not individual rocks for breeding substrate. I wouldn't have connected those dots. For your plan to work you're going to want to train them to lay on inert clay tiles that you can pick up at your local hardware store for next to nothing.

Best of luck selling the eggs.

 

[pweissma]

No problem. I appreciate the input.

 

[jbax]

just lay the tile on the flat rock where they layed the last batch. if or when you go to pull it, just switch it with another tile just like it.

 

[GreshamH]

I think you need to re-read the original post because Bill took us off topic. Let me quote the relevant section of the original post to which I responded for you:

"I'm wondering if it would be possible to give away (or sell?) the fry from a future spawn."

Where in this post does it talk about an experienced hatchery transporting eggs? This is a question from a complete novice asking if he can basically scrape the eggs off his rock or scoop up some fry, put them in a zip lock bag and ship them for a profit. This is impossible.

In my experience too much light can kill fry. Too little light can kill fry. Too many rotifers can kill the fry. Too few rotifers can kill the fry. Too high a temperature can kill the fry. Too low a temperature can kill the fry. Too many air bubbles can kill the fry. Too few air bubbles can kill the fry... you get my point. These things are extremely delicate.

I conceded awhile back that transporting eggs is feasible. But a novice asking a question like this is basically looking to scrape the eggs off his rock or siphon the fry into a plastic bag and ship them. Mortalilty rate: GUARANTEED 99.9%. Tell me you'd pay money for the eggs he scraped off a rock or unfed fry that never have the opportunity to develop their hunting skills on day 1. :deadhorse:

Please re-read the link as no place involved is an "experienced hatchery". They are all "public aquariums". Just because they are public aquariums does not mean they know any more then an average hobbyist, some would surprise you. Now many are higher level, but that link from PackedHead is Richard Ross, a hobbyist that got a job at a public aquarium. As a hobbyist he shipped eggs all around the US.

Shipping fry is not impossible as I just illustrated.

Try taking it down a notch buddy, we all here to help (I would assume).

 

[GreshamH]

People swap out tiles and clay pots all the time, but not individual rocks for breeding substrate.

Sure they do. I have seen this posted numerous times, and have seen it amongst my MO breeder friends, perhaps you just have never heard or seen it....