What's the current market price for a Zebrasoma rostratum (Black Tang)?

skibum9884 said:
I think the issue of legality stems from having the appropriate CITES and permits to collect and import into the market where you live. Also, as certain locals are becoming less open to having collectors come in and take fish from their waters to be exported for the marine trade, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge a good deal of money for these permits. It's simple supply and demand, and the more they charge, the less fish will be taken.

Additionally, many of these rare fish (not so sure if Black or Gem Tangs are included in this category) are found in areas that are difficult and/or expensive to access and sometimes at depths that are very dangerous for the diver.

Personally, I think it's perfectly acceptable for these "rare" fish to cost upwards of $500-1K. When you think about it, someone is diving to great depths, at their own risk, to collect a fish somewhere in the middle of the ocean and then is being shipped and imported into the US (or other country) generally via overnight shipping. I think that's pretty incredible.....

Lastly, no one said you had to have a Black Tang, or a Gem, or that deepwater Butterfly. If you're put off by the price, don't buy it, someone else will.
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Some of these fish are not Rare, it is more of the country they are coming from. The country might only let 50 of these fish be exported a year. There might be thousands of them in a 1 square mile area. Not saying some of these are not rare though. But if the country wants to protect its natural reef they should have the right to do so. And if you want a fish that bad then you gotta pay.
 
My LFS had a 4" one for $600. They were doing maintenance on the big display tank killing off aptasia with some chemical. They got a little happy shooting up the aptasia and killed the tang. :(
 
markitekt said:
I know this post is old, but some people are just suckers. So if you buy the fish "illegally", for $500 (gem tang), then it's bad, but if you pay someone $2000 legally, it's OK? What is legal or not in this hobby is open to interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, I should be locked up cause I have a mini-ocean in my house and I didn't pay anybody too much money for it. Who is to say that owning a gem tang for $5 is illegal? NOBODY!!! But if you wanna feel "legal" about it, you can give me $5000 and I can get you the most legal gem tang in the world! I take Paypal.

"The beauty is in the eye of the beholder". That is true, but the rarity and the price of the black tang, for example, distort the vision of beauty. If all black tangs were as common as the yellow tang, then all yellow tangs would be worth $500 if they were as rare as the black tangs are now. It's what you can't have that you love the most.
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What in the world are you talking about? "Laws" are pretty well defined, and are NOT subject to interpretation. If a country like South Africa says its illegal to sell fish internationally, and you do it.........you're breaking the law, and its illegal. Its something called "smuggling". It has NOTHING to do with supply and demand. They are laws. And when hobbyists break laws to own something, it takes this hobby of our one step closer to extinction.

As for "beauty", and you defining the terms of it for everyone to adhere to, puh-leez. Based on what some people pay for suits, shoes, jewelry, tvs, cars, furniture, artwork.....etc etc etc, OBVIOUSLY there is no standard for beauty. We buy what we want, and we want what moves us. Period.
 
skibum9884 said:
I think the issue of legality stems from having the appropriate CITES and permits to collect and import into the market where you live. Also, as certain locals are becoming less open to having collectors come in and take fish from their waters to be exported for the marine trade, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge a good deal of money for these permits. It's simple supply and demand, and the more they charge, the less fish will be taken.

Additionally, many of these rare fish (not so sure if Black or Gem Tangs are included in this category) are found in areas that are difficult and/or expensive to access and sometimes at depths that are very dangerous for the diver.

Personally, I think it's perfectly acceptable for these "rare" fish to cost upwards of $500-1K. When you think about it, someone is diving to great depths, at their own risk, to collect a fish somewhere in the middle of the ocean and then is being shipped and imported into the US (or other country) generally via overnight shipping. I think that's pretty incredible.....

Lastly, no one said you had to have a Black Tang, or a Gem, or that deepwater Butterfly. If you're put off by the price, don't buy it, someone else will.
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skibum9884 said:
Oh yea, and what is legal vs. not legal is not open to interpretation. It's pretty black and white. Simply paying someone a lot of money doesn't make it legal........

There is a lot of illegal stuff in this hobby though, which is my eyes isn't good for anyone. I'd love to have a resplendant angel, but it's not going to happen.
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+1 Very well thought out post.
 
Really want your head to spin get your hands on a list showing how much the wholesalers pay for the $500--$1000 fish. Often under $50. Legal or illegal it is shameful. The same diver gets under $5 for a less rare tang that can come to retail for prices from $30 to $200. Price is dictated by supply and demand. Same is true for so many of the rare and beautiful fish we covet.
 
longranger said:
Really want your head to spin get your hands on a list showing how much the wholesalers pay for the $500--$1000 fish. Often under $50. Legal or illegal it is shameful. The same diver gets under $5 for a less rare tang that can come to retail for prices from $30 to $200. Price is dictated by supply and demand. Same is true for so many of the rare and beautiful fish we covet.
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Obviously you have no clue what you are talking about. Black tangs are a deeper water fish, and are collected at Christmas Island for the most part. Very few divers go for them and last I heard there were only 2 divers collecting this fish. If you call directly to these divers they are selling them for 300-350. If a Lfs ordered 2 of these and lost one, they would only break even, unless they were charging a grand apiece.
 
I was aware of the depth they habitate. There are many other reef fish that are collected from similar depths that cost a small fraction of the cost of a BT. The prices wholesalers pay divers for most fish, maybe not the BT, is shockingly low compared to retail pricing. In many cases the extent of markup in price for the rare fish in high demand is rediculous and by the time they reach a LFS the costs reflect nothing but the market. At this point in time the BT may be a rare exception in terms of the price reasonably reflecting the price the wholesalers have to pay.
 
Any deep water fish I have ever seen on a wholesale list cost quite a bit. Green chromis are on there all the time at 10 cents apiece, however my Japanese lunate was on there for 245.00 another deep water fish. I don't know any deep water fish that are cheap. Wholesale or otherwise.
 
Lot of misinformation about black tangs:

1. They are a SHALLOW water fish, but are found in high surf and strong current areas
2. there are over a dozen collectors in CXI that can catch this fish. Not just 2... no idea where that came from...
3. you cannot order directly from the divers in CXI - there needs to be export permits in place and they only have a certain number of active ones. Much like any other place, there are wholesalers who buy the fish from divers and then export them.
4. Christmas divers get paid well for their fish. Especially blacks
5. wholesalers actually dont make much money on higher end fish. 100% markup IF their lucky, but usually around 50%. The LFS is where the mark up occurs which is generally 200-300% from what they paid.

The price has nearly quadrupled for the importing price to HNL from 6 years ago... they are getting scarce and very difficult to find.
 
I know for a fact you can buy direct from the divers, don't ask me how I know, but I do. And the last time I checked witch was 2 years ago only 2 divers went after them and 90% were caught at 100' plus depths. Not saying other divers won't collect them if one comes their way in shallow waters though. I was keeping up with the black tang trade if you will, since 1995 when I first encountered one in a Lfs, since then it has been my favorite and took me awhile to track down under 1". I know some small ones have been present over,the years just not a small one that met my requirements. By the way the one from 95 was sold to us for 50 bucks as a mutated yellow tang.
 
Sorry, but you are wrong. You cannot buy direct from Christmas Island divers. You can buy direct from Hawaii wholesalers who will carry Christmas Island fish, but you cannot buy direct from the divers themselves in CXI - its impossible for mainland to do so, especially for hobbyist since you will need your own import permits for Fish and wildlife and state AG clearances, and most hobbyist do not have their own permits!

They are shallow water fish. Found in the lagoon side even, they are just uncommon. Not to say their range isn't deeper, but its much like yellow tangs in their habitat, which are shallow on top of reefs, not on the bottom.

I dont know where your information is coming from, but mine is directly coming from Chrsitmas island exporters and divers on a weekly basis. 100 feet is not deep for those divers as they go 180-220 on a regular basis in which case they are going for other fish.

I would like to know how you know you can buy direct from divers in CXI - and if your so confident, i know a lot of the divers there, so i would need names to verify.

I get maybe 5-10 black tangs a month from CXI, and none are deep water.

Most people dont know the complications of shipping out of Kiribati as its very complicated to explain, but its nearly impossible for a diver to export their fish with the help of one of the exporters there.
 
Well, I know I'm 100% correct on buying from a diver, sorry no names will be given. Obviously you know for the reasons why. And yes once you hit 100' it is normally considered a deep water fish. The black is thought to help them camoflage in the deeper darker water. You might get adults spawning in the shawollw water which would explain mostly adult black tangs being imported.
 
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