Whaledriver
New member
The only way solar electric makes sense is if you can get the tax rebates and deductions. Solar heat can make sense without the grants.
Where can I find info on large scale coral farming?
- Thread starter Whaledriver
- Start date
I thought he was asking about solar roofing panels, not photo voltaic.
Whether PV is cost effective depends on your rates, we are in a high kw price here, a home system is figured to have a 6-8 year payback depending on your solar gain.
I am collecting info, when I come up with my choice I'll post the specs.
Whether PV is cost effective depends on your rates, we are in a high kw price here, a home system is figured to have a 6-8 year payback depending on your solar gain.
I am collecting info, when I come up with my choice I'll post the specs.
electricity prices
electricity prices
Electricity prices should be predicted dynamically. They will increase. How and when this happens will be different depending on where you are in the country.
If you were setting up in IL right now, you should be expecting to pay 50% more than last year because a 13 year rate freeze is just now expiring. Whatever your case, sooner or later the price will increase significantly because very little generation is being built and demand is growing fast.
electricity prices
Electricity prices should be predicted dynamically. They will increase. How and when this happens will be different depending on where you are in the country.
If you were setting up in IL right now, you should be expecting to pay 50% more than last year because a 13 year rate freeze is just now expiring. Whatever your case, sooner or later the price will increase significantly because very little generation is being built and demand is growing fast.
Tigger240
New member
jake have you seen this link, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/pondDIYCalfo/diy-pond.htm
i am currently making my own tanks, and found them to be slightly cheaper, and made the way i want them. i am doing wood, fiberglass, and epoxy, and i will be doing a pond in a simliar fashon (to the link), and that is really cheap compaired to industral tanks
with using the pond liner you can use cheap as beans 3/4 plywood, its like 9 dollars a sheet or something and 2x6x8' is like 4 dollars each. pond liner is the most expensive part (i think) but still very cheap for the size of tank to be had.
i am currently making my own tanks, and found them to be slightly cheaper, and made the way i want them. i am doing wood, fiberglass, and epoxy, and i will be doing a pond in a simliar fashon (to the link), and that is really cheap compaired to industral tanks
with using the pond liner you can use cheap as beans 3/4 plywood, its like 9 dollars a sheet or something and 2x6x8' is like 4 dollars each. pond liner is the most expensive part (i think) but still very cheap for the size of tank to be had.
Philip Root
Premium Member
9 dollars a sheet for plywood!! My plywood was more like 27 to 30 dollars per sheet.
Whaledriver
New member
Has anyone used old plate glass window glass for tanks? Used glas should be cheap?
Tigger240
New member
no no, 9 dollars is the cheap stuff, 28.99 is uber nice 3/4" blondewood thats like 5 layers pressboard. the 9 dollar stuff is the one with knots and its used for roofing sheeting, cover joists, ect. its only 1 step higher than osb (particle board). when using pondliner you can get away with the cheap stuff because theres a foam layer and then the pond liner so it doesnt matter. the 30.00 per sheet stuff is what you need for a wood, epoxy, only tank. you can get away with the cheaper stuff if you use automotive filler in the knots if you use a fiberglass layer followed up with a epoxy layer.
Hey Tigger
hadnt seen that link, thanks, it looks very much like Dick Perrrins only his are 16-20' long. I wondered if a couple of the photos were from one of his.
I am kicking around whether to make one 8' by 4' by 30" or two rows of tanks. The vat would be 598 gallons, or I could get 416 gallons in the tanks with separate stock, including fish pairs, or a narrower vat, and one row with 220 gals. I intend to be raising some fish too. The vat though is the most efficient way to grow corrals. I expect it would also raise a LOT of banggais. Traping them could be a problem. Maybe a big minnow trap. Much to think about. Enclosing the garage would let me put two 10' vats in. The fish room would then be all tanks.
Have you built any of these vats yet ? The mitered ends of the braces is the only way to go. There is a LOT of pressure on these ! Also, no way I'd go under 3/4", might bite the bullet for 1". The $9 stuff as mentioned is cheap sheeting.
How deep are you figuring ? I had thought before of 2' depths but, 30" means more water mass so more stability. Also, I will use a deep substrate over a plenum and use the plenum to move water from one end to the other. With a 4" plenum and a 5-6" substrate thats a good depth for corals and the occasional fish.
Re: the used plate glass, yes, for tanks ~ 75 gals, but, so much of this has lost the temper I really wouldnt trust it for bigger. For shallow tanks it may well work real well. I had several of the 75s built of used glass, I got a good deal and the glass place cut it in the sizes I wanted and cleaned the edges for me. But, no guarantees. Best I can recall the glass cost me about $38 per 75 gal tank.
Tigger where are you located ? Generally Lowes is higher then HP.
hadnt seen that link, thanks, it looks very much like Dick Perrrins only his are 16-20' long. I wondered if a couple of the photos were from one of his.
I am kicking around whether to make one 8' by 4' by 30" or two rows of tanks. The vat would be 598 gallons, or I could get 416 gallons in the tanks with separate stock, including fish pairs, or a narrower vat, and one row with 220 gals. I intend to be raising some fish too. The vat though is the most efficient way to grow corrals. I expect it would also raise a LOT of banggais. Traping them could be a problem. Maybe a big minnow trap. Much to think about. Enclosing the garage would let me put two 10' vats in. The fish room would then be all tanks.
Have you built any of these vats yet ? The mitered ends of the braces is the only way to go. There is a LOT of pressure on these ! Also, no way I'd go under 3/4", might bite the bullet for 1". The $9 stuff as mentioned is cheap sheeting.
How deep are you figuring ? I had thought before of 2' depths but, 30" means more water mass so more stability. Also, I will use a deep substrate over a plenum and use the plenum to move water from one end to the other. With a 4" plenum and a 5-6" substrate thats a good depth for corals and the occasional fish.
Re: the used plate glass, yes, for tanks ~ 75 gals, but, so much of this has lost the temper I really wouldnt trust it for bigger. For shallow tanks it may well work real well. I had several of the 75s built of used glass, I got a good deal and the glass place cut it in the sizes I wanted and cleaned the edges for me. But, no guarantees. Best I can recall the glass cost me about $38 per 75 gal tank.
Tigger where are you located ? Generally Lowes is higher then HP.
Whaledriver
New member
Regarding used glass
I was thinking of a 4' x 7' tank that is about 24 inches deep. I think that if I make a super strong base that is very flat the glass bottom of the tank wont be a big issue. The sides would also only be 24" high. My idea is to put a euro-brace around the perimeter. I could laminate glass at the top so that it is about an inch thick and maybe 5 inches wide. A similar secondary bracing at the bottom would also help it hold in place.
I guess this the start to another thread or maybe should be?
Is there anything someone has seen about a tank like this or using old glass? It seems to me the glass guys can make a buck fabricating the parts on something that gets tossed out anyway.
I was thinking of a 4' x 7' tank that is about 24 inches deep. I think that if I make a super strong base that is very flat the glass bottom of the tank wont be a big issue. The sides would also only be 24" high. My idea is to put a euro-brace around the perimeter. I could laminate glass at the top so that it is about an inch thick and maybe 5 inches wide. A similar secondary bracing at the bottom would also help it hold in place.
I guess this the start to another thread or maybe should be?
Is there anything someone has seen about a tank like this or using old glass? It seems to me the glass guys can make a buck fabricating the parts on something that gets tossed out anyway.
Tigger240
New member
Jake,
i am currently in the process of building vats, for a specific purpose, and a height vs space vs lighting restriction has forced the issue with regard to tank depth. i am going to have 3 vats that are 8'x4'x1', stacked one on top of eachother on a custom made stand. i have a 7'5" ceiling, and orginally i was going to have a 6" opening between 4 vats but in the end i scrapped the 4th vat and i got 12" working space between the tanks. i need alot of surface area and it was tough decision to give up the 4th vat, but in the end i think this will work out alot better not to mention slightly less intial cost. i am hoping that with linked tanks the lack of water depth will be offset by the total water volume. i am springing for the 3/4" blondewood ( a whopping 1 dollar between 1/2" and 3/4") and 10oz (in 50" width!! single span!!) with some 4oz fiberglass, and marine epoxy. i need durable tanks that wount leak that will last the test of time. i have found your posts very inspiring. i was very edge of going for broke or checking myself into an instution and after reading this thread,.(insert boring detail).. well here i am. my fiance and i are going to be investing in property soon, and once i have a green house or garage facility, i will be revising my plans (read adding tanks). I think the extra room and depth provides alot of possiblity, and stability. i am a firm believer in not cornering one's self, and the depth can add a varity of options for minimal extra cost. i have found in my personal experience that the longer the wood the less true it is, and would think twice about going the 16' length with 2x6's. this could be finessed however with some thought. the multiple tanks could allow different species (lps and sps) to be done at the same time without inhibiting eachother (ie chemical warefare), and or allow a redundancy if something were to happen. i am going to build a vat exactly like the link i provided for my shark and use pondliner also, at the new property. it cheap as beans compared to wood, glass, and epoxy, but i didnt want to have to deal with making bulkheads not leak, pinholes, ect, without having a floor drain and being in my own place (im currently renting). the pondliner is tough as nails though, on the thicker stuff 40 - 60 mills, you supposdly cant put a shovel through it. im located in florida and lowes is more than "the depot" = homedepot. i dunno who hp is tho.? the deeper tanks allow for better implimation of airlifts someting that i strongly advocate. i wish i was closer to tropicorium, and may visit there facility in the near future. i may find a way to visit ora, they let a miami based aquarium club tour their facility.. i missed that opportuinty big time. i am currently looking into the state certified aquaculture license and hopefully will get that ball of wax going shortly. i will keep you posted as soon as i can and am listening at the same time. thanks for your input jake (and everyone on this thread!!!) it was the push that i needed. in the end i dont really care if i make it or not, i have a dream and i am going for it. i hope my determination will over come the odds but at the end of the day i followed my dream and for me that is enough.
i am currently in the process of building vats, for a specific purpose, and a height vs space vs lighting restriction has forced the issue with regard to tank depth. i am going to have 3 vats that are 8'x4'x1', stacked one on top of eachother on a custom made stand. i have a 7'5" ceiling, and orginally i was going to have a 6" opening between 4 vats but in the end i scrapped the 4th vat and i got 12" working space between the tanks. i need alot of surface area and it was tough decision to give up the 4th vat, but in the end i think this will work out alot better not to mention slightly less intial cost. i am hoping that with linked tanks the lack of water depth will be offset by the total water volume. i am springing for the 3/4" blondewood ( a whopping 1 dollar between 1/2" and 3/4") and 10oz (in 50" width!! single span!!) with some 4oz fiberglass, and marine epoxy. i need durable tanks that wount leak that will last the test of time. i have found your posts very inspiring. i was very edge of going for broke or checking myself into an instution and after reading this thread,.(insert boring detail).. well here i am. my fiance and i are going to be investing in property soon, and once i have a green house or garage facility, i will be revising my plans (read adding tanks). I think the extra room and depth provides alot of possiblity, and stability. i am a firm believer in not cornering one's self, and the depth can add a varity of options for minimal extra cost. i have found in my personal experience that the longer the wood the less true it is, and would think twice about going the 16' length with 2x6's. this could be finessed however with some thought. the multiple tanks could allow different species (lps and sps) to be done at the same time without inhibiting eachother (ie chemical warefare), and or allow a redundancy if something were to happen. i am going to build a vat exactly like the link i provided for my shark and use pondliner also, at the new property. it cheap as beans compared to wood, glass, and epoxy, but i didnt want to have to deal with making bulkheads not leak, pinholes, ect, without having a floor drain and being in my own place (im currently renting). the pondliner is tough as nails though, on the thicker stuff 40 - 60 mills, you supposdly cant put a shovel through it. im located in florida and lowes is more than "the depot" = homedepot. i dunno who hp is tho.? the deeper tanks allow for better implimation of airlifts someting that i strongly advocate. i wish i was closer to tropicorium, and may visit there facility in the near future. i may find a way to visit ora, they let a miami based aquarium club tour their facility.. i missed that opportuinty big time. i am currently looking into the state certified aquaculture license and hopefully will get that ball of wax going shortly. i will keep you posted as soon as i can and am listening at the same time. thanks for your input jake (and everyone on this thread!!!) it was the push that i needed. in the end i dont really care if i make it or not, i have a dream and i am going for it. i hope my determination will over come the odds but at the end of the day i followed my dream and for me that is enough.
Tigger240
New member
i would seriously advocate adding a simpson hurricane strap to the mitered ends of that type of tank to add duriblity and a sleep factor of 10x. one could easily finesse this with a 5.5" square 1/8" piece of steel with a grid of holes for screws or nails. (for a 2x6 runners).
whoo 100 posts.
whoo 100 posts.
Hi Tigger
your ply is higher down there then the rest of the country,
re your stacked vats, I'd spread them out to an 18" separation, and work on the top one off a small step ladder, a 12" working space is real hard to live with, been there. How is your lighting done for the two lower vats?
It will be money invested for you and your fiance to visit Tropicorium. Fly to Detroit and rent a car and drive to Dicks, its right off the expressway, easy to find. About ten mins from the airport. You might find some broodstock to take back to help pay for the trip. You'll want to look at his shark tanks. As far as I know he is the only one in the US raising them commercially.
Whaledriver that dimension sounds very doable, great frag tanks.You can try contacting some used glass places and see what is doable. Let us know what you find out. If you use 3/8" plate it should be good without laminating I would think. Check with the pros. I'd do it though.
your ply is higher down there then the rest of the country,
re your stacked vats, I'd spread them out to an 18" separation, and work on the top one off a small step ladder, a 12" working space is real hard to live with, been there. How is your lighting done for the two lower vats?
It will be money invested for you and your fiance to visit Tropicorium. Fly to Detroit and rent a car and drive to Dicks, its right off the expressway, easy to find. About ten mins from the airport. You might find some broodstock to take back to help pay for the trip. You'll want to look at his shark tanks. As far as I know he is the only one in the US raising them commercially.
Whaledriver that dimension sounds very doable, great frag tanks.You can try contacting some used glass places and see what is doable. Let us know what you find out. If you use 3/8" plate it should be good without laminating I would think. Check with the pros. I'd do it though.
Stoney Mahony
New member
Awesome thread guys! Ive spent the last few days reading it from the begining and im in Orlando, also planning on a coral greehouse longterm. My wife and I are working on getting land north of Cleremont in the groveland area. The greenhouse is "realistically" still a few years away, as I am waiting on a patent for a new greenhouse film and want to finish that project first. I am basically just buying equipment when I see it at a great deal and saving up for the move.
I had a quick couple questions about tank construction using wood. If you use a pond liner, how do you attach the bulkheads? Do you cut a hole in the liner and attach it like you normally would? Or maybe epoxy around the bulkhead? I would love to build my troughs out of wood and line them since thats going to be one of my big expenses. I can get the Pond liners cheap and cut to whatever demensions I need so it is definately dooable. In tiger240's post he says he will use 4oz fiberglass and marine epoxy to seal his wood tanks......what is better-The liner sealed wood tanks or the epoxy,fiberglass tanks? Does anybody have a price comparison(How much is it to fiberglass/epoxy a whole tank compared to using a liner)?
Thanks again for all the info. Ill be posting whenever I have anything relevent.
- Oh Tiger......You can set up an appointment with ORA to visit if you give them a call. I have seen them let very small groups come in the past so you don't have to go with a huge club. It's an awesome facility if you get a chance to go.
I had a quick couple questions about tank construction using wood. If you use a pond liner, how do you attach the bulkheads? Do you cut a hole in the liner and attach it like you normally would? Or maybe epoxy around the bulkhead? I would love to build my troughs out of wood and line them since thats going to be one of my big expenses. I can get the Pond liners cheap and cut to whatever demensions I need so it is definately dooable. In tiger240's post he says he will use 4oz fiberglass and marine epoxy to seal his wood tanks......what is better-The liner sealed wood tanks or the epoxy,fiberglass tanks? Does anybody have a price comparison(How much is it to fiberglass/epoxy a whole tank compared to using a liner)?
Thanks again for all the info. Ill be posting whenever I have anything relevent.
- Oh Tiger......You can set up an appointment with ORA to visit if you give them a call. I have seen them let very small groups come in the past so you don't have to go with a huge club. It's an awesome facility if you get a chance to go.
Whaledriver
New member
Thanks for the advise on the glass tanks. I think this size, 4'x7' should work well with 6'VHO bulbs. The tank will be two sided and the top will slide over to allow full access to one side at a time.
Stoney Mahony
New member
Hey Redox, did he make you pay for the mold too? That really is an awesome price! How big were the vats you got? Im just trying to get a good price comparison. Thanks!
Tigger240
New member
jake
thanks for the remarks, i am seriously considering flying up there shortly. i would like to have a larger seperation, but my ceiling is 7'5" and my tanks are 12" and im using 2x6" for a wood stand so i can have the 8' open on either side. that means each tank is essentially 18" (well 17.5") deep. the lighting will be hung off of the 2x6's, i havent fine tuned the idea or concept, but thats the basic idea. i want them retractable to some degree or all the way up into the 2x6 joists. I am toying with the idea to close in the sides with a light material thats easily removable and have a box fan draw air across the 8' length and then the exhaust will vent outside. this will help with cooling issues, humidity, and the pure destructivness of salt laiden air. im thinking of using balsa wood thats sealed, for lightweight and cost effectivness for the "duct" and maybe something similar for boxing the lengths of the tank. i have a few things to work out. the rim of the top tank is going to be at 6'+ and i am going to need a small steppie ladder. thanks again. i will be intently watching, learning, and posting when i more to offer.
mahony - i have not worked out the finer issues with using a pond liner style tank. this was the first concern i had with them, and also the possibilities of leaks, defects from the manufacture of the liner, to mis handling, to carelessness, and i am doing this in an apartment. i could not afford to have a mishap. this idea was quickly struck off the list of possiblities and since conducted no further research. i would say no dice to epoxying bulkheads. 2 part glue epoxy becomes soft in the marine enviroment and releases its grip in time unless properly covered. i am leaning towards that you could attach them normally, with some care to not distort the pondliner and the rubber o ring. however, i have no clue. plywood, fiberglass, epoxy tanks are much more costly than a plywood liner tank, and i would hesitate against the fiber glass tanks if my situation was different. redox does offer good advice about contracting a fiberglass guy to make a mold and have him make them for you, but i have seen a member on this board get extremely burned by doing it that way. the fiberglasser said he wasnt making any money and basicly flat out refused to make them the way he said he was and the guy was pretty much stuck with something he didnt want, and they bowed if i remember right. if your slick with fglass i am sure you could make your own. just do a ebay search or google search of the materials involved and you will get an idea of how quickly things add up, and what the approximate cost of the tanks are going to be. ive set a budget of 2g to get my system up and running, and i feel that i will be cutting it close.
whalediver - i am jealous of you!! i love glass!
thanks for the remarks, i am seriously considering flying up there shortly. i would like to have a larger seperation, but my ceiling is 7'5" and my tanks are 12" and im using 2x6" for a wood stand so i can have the 8' open on either side. that means each tank is essentially 18" (well 17.5") deep. the lighting will be hung off of the 2x6's, i havent fine tuned the idea or concept, but thats the basic idea. i want them retractable to some degree or all the way up into the 2x6 joists. I am toying with the idea to close in the sides with a light material thats easily removable and have a box fan draw air across the 8' length and then the exhaust will vent outside. this will help with cooling issues, humidity, and the pure destructivness of salt laiden air. im thinking of using balsa wood thats sealed, for lightweight and cost effectivness for the "duct" and maybe something similar for boxing the lengths of the tank. i have a few things to work out. the rim of the top tank is going to be at 6'+ and i am going to need a small steppie ladder. thanks again. i will be intently watching, learning, and posting when i more to offer.
mahony - i have not worked out the finer issues with using a pond liner style tank. this was the first concern i had with them, and also the possibilities of leaks, defects from the manufacture of the liner, to mis handling, to carelessness, and i am doing this in an apartment. i could not afford to have a mishap. this idea was quickly struck off the list of possiblities and since conducted no further research. i would say no dice to epoxying bulkheads. 2 part glue epoxy becomes soft in the marine enviroment and releases its grip in time unless properly covered. i am leaning towards that you could attach them normally, with some care to not distort the pondliner and the rubber o ring. however, i have no clue. plywood, fiberglass, epoxy tanks are much more costly than a plywood liner tank, and i would hesitate against the fiber glass tanks if my situation was different. redox does offer good advice about contracting a fiberglass guy to make a mold and have him make them for you, but i have seen a member on this board get extremely burned by doing it that way. the fiberglasser said he wasnt making any money and basicly flat out refused to make them the way he said he was and the guy was pretty much stuck with something he didnt want, and they bowed if i remember right. if your slick with fglass i am sure you could make your own. just do a ebay search or google search of the materials involved and you will get an idea of how quickly things add up, and what the approximate cost of the tanks are going to be. ive set a budget of 2g to get my system up and running, and i feel that i will be cutting it close.
whalediver - i am jealous of you!! i love glass!
Does anyone know where I can get information on expected growth rates for softies in a GH? For example,how long does it take for a xenia frag to double in size.Im in the final planning stages of my 500 sq.ft Gh & need to put some harvest estimates together.
I was able to get the 2" thick 280g concrete coffin liners for $140 delivered & set.I will have 10 tanks.
Also some reccomended species for propogating would be very helpful.
Thanks,Jrod
I was able to get the 2" thick 280g concrete coffin liners for $140 delivered & set.I will have 10 tanks.
Also some reccomended species for propogating would be very helpful.
Thanks,Jrod
