Whitish film on tang

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Blue Tang is ` Scratching against rocks, skin has a hazy white film on it, at first glance looks like a fungus, the cloudy part also is a little bit on his eye. I've done some reasearching. Sounds a little bit like Columnaris Disease which is treated with TMP Sulfa, Sulfa 4 TMP, or Triple Sulfa Powder according to what I've read.

Does anyone else have a better opinion on this. I want to help this fish.

 

[SAT]

The white film is probably a combination of excess mucous that the fish is shedding due to irritation and a secondary bacterial infection. The primary problem is probably a protozoan parasite. If you're not seeing any salt-like spots, particularly on the fins, then it's most likely either marine velvet or brooklynella.

Here's a page that describes the major parasites and their treatment. Note the reference to a freshwater dip test that you can use to distinguish between brooklynella & marine velvet.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/fishdiseases.html

The fish may also benefit from an antibiotic. I suggest nitrofurazone or Maracyn-Two instead of sulfa drugs.

Note that none of these treatments should be applied in a reef tank.

 

[Steven Pro]

Copper in a quarantine tank would be my treatment of choice. You could be dealing with velvet or ich, but copper treats both.

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Its not spots like ick or marine velvet... now its less stuff on the body ... its more like white spots on the tips of the fins.. not like ick spots but just like his fins are torn up.... His fins are clamped now that I'm able to get a better look at him.... other than that he's not rubbing as much... and he's bright blue... but on random spots on his body the coloring is kinda fading... I am so frustrated about this... me being a good care taker of my own fish I'm trying to help him... ( this is my moms tank...and her husband bought her the fish) Not to mention there is a very pretty yellow tang in there with him ... that I bought my mom that I dont want to loose because of this blue tang. I just really wish he hadnt brought this fish home... neither of them seem to concerned and I'm freaken out... I just dont think they understand. Should I try and get it out and take it back to the dealership so they can treat it? I dont have a hospital tank.. so if I dont take it back i guess I need to start setting up a hospital tank now... something I really have no time for but since noone in this house is bothering to do anything i'm pretty much stuck... I'm having a very bad day and this isnt helping... sorry for this frustrating post... I'm gonna go calm down now..

 

[SAT]

If you can get the dealer to help you, that would be excellent. However, don't let the dealer convince you to add drugs to your mother's reef tank!

The symptoms you describe do sound like a bacterial infection is involved, in which case the antibiotics I listed should help. You should beware, however, that marine velvet does not produce visible spots and it's very common for the symptoms you list to accompany a protozoan infection.

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

ok we went to the dealership... they suggested Mardel Coppersafe...and Formalin. Currently we have him in a hospital tank at home... Directions suggest use the coppersafe and that its good for a month to only add that once. And then the Formalin it says to add everyother day until signs are gone and then to continue using it 10 days after to prevent reinfestation... my questions are... specifically what are each of these medications treating?

For the coppersafe the closest thing seems parasites... because symptoms are said to include extra mucous, visible spots, rapid breathing, and scrathing or rubbing on rocks ( all of which my fish had)

And then for the Formalin it descides it as an external protozoacide.

I just really want to understand the differences between these two... and also are there gonna be any adverse effects to my fish as result of using these? He seems better.... he's not rubbing because theres nothing really in the tank for him to rub on... and his eyes are looking better.... no mucous of fuzz on the body...

But he does still have a little bit of what looks like fin rot on the top dorsal close to the bottom.. only a tiny spot though... and his fins still a little clamped.... the worst part is the whitish faded spot on his belly... it looks irritated almost like thats where he was rubbing himself at. ( or at least thats what it looks like to me)
Any more help would be great.

PS: this is a 12 gallon hospital tank... he's swimming around more straight up and down like he was before, but everyonce in awhile he kinda sits on one of his sides... Is this normal behavoir for blue tangs? Always laying between rocks on a side... like if he was completely better and he still did this... is that considered normal?

Also what can i feed him other than just the Nori sheets that would benefit him in helping to get better/ keeping him fat and perky? Just looking for ideas.. Thanks agian so much.. Megs~!

 

[SAT]

I would have given you different advice. The CopperSafe is an OK form of copper, effective against most protozoans. The formalin also kills parasites and may be appropriate as a bath if your fish has Brooklynella... but I would never ever add it to the tank water. The additional item I would add in this case is Maracyn-Two for the bacterial infection.

You should never treat with copper using the method suggested because dosage is very critical and you can't accurately control that by that method. Instead, look on the label (or insert) for the proper concentration for the copper (in ppm) and then use a copper test kit to tell you if it's at that level. Not all copper test kits work with CopperSafe... the insert should also indicate which will work (or get one that claims to work with chelated copper).

One reason you don't want to follow the label directions is in a few days you will have a lethal level of ammonia in that quarantine tank (particularly if you add formalin to the water, which will totally wipe out any nitrifying bacteria). So, you will be changing a huge amount of water to control it. I hope you're starting to mix it as you read this. I suggest 50% change per day. You can use an ammonia test kit to guide you... you shouldn't allow more than 0.1ppm total ammonia.

The way to avoid the ammonia problem is to have a pre-conditioned filter on the tank. I use a sponge filter or a bio-wheel. It takes a couple of weeks to properly condition a filter (I keep the filter running in my quarantine tank and just add fish food, whether there's any fish in it or not).

If you want to use formalin for Brooklynella (which is a plausible diagnosis), here are directions:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/formalinbaths.html

Sitting on his side isn't too unusual. Make sure he has some hiding places... flower pots & PVC pipe work well. Nothing made from carbonate material like live rock.

If he will take it, frozen Formula 2 is a good diet for him.

 

[TOURKID]

sat... I to, added coppersafe to my quarentine tank today. I feel I did it error because I havent correctly identified her condition yet (maroon clown)
her sg is 1.020 I just ordered a refractometer but dont want to lower it using my hydrometer. I thought about getting the maraycen 2 after reading the instructions

the amonia levels you were talking about.. is that because of the formalin? not using it, just wondering what i need to expect in the coming days. i did a water change today before adding the coppersafe. my fish wont eat at all. been 2 full days, how long can they go without food?

 

[SAT]

Ammonia is mainly due to normal wastes and lack of a conditioned filter. Normally it takes at least a week, often longer, for a filter to become effective. Formalin just makes the situation worse by actively killing the nitrifying bacteria.

CopperSafe is an effective broad-spectrum treatment for protozoan parasites. I prefer hyposalinity over copper for Ich because hypo is less toxic for the fish. However copper is the best choice when you suspect a protozoan parasite but are unable to positively identify it.

Fish that have been eating well and maintaining their normal weight can typically go for a couple of weeks without food without being seriously damaged by it. During their collection and transport, fish routinely go that long without food.

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

YOu were right its the ammonia making him get worse... I took him out he's in a regular bucket full of aquarium water from the maintank.... I'm gonna run out and get Maracyn 2... can I treat with Maracyn 2 and the copper at the same time and just do separate baths of the formalin? In the meantime I'm in the process of redoing the quarantine tank even thought I dont know how to go about doing this I dont have another seprate prepared filter that has enough bacteria built up to effectively battle the ammonia....

I could take him out and dose him in a bucket everyday with a new bucket of FRESH ammonia free water from the tank.... but I'm just thinking about how much of a constant remixing of saltwater I'm going to have to be doing in order to keep the level of water up in my main tank.... doing it this way seems overkill... I feel so bad for this fish I just want to make it all better and its so hard... My moms talking to my step dad right now about this.... I think she just wants to take him back cuz shes overwhemled as am I. But I know the fish will just die if we take it back. Where is a next door neighbor with a quarintine tank already set up when you need one?

 

[TOURKID]

would do anything for a friend with a tank right now. my fishs time is almost up

 

[SAT]

Changing water is a perfectly good way to keep the ammonia down. Yes, you can mix Maracyn-Two with CopperSafe and then use separate baths for formalin.

The biggest problem with this approach is all the handling involved. That greatly increases the stress level, even you're luckly and don't damage the fish. If you can, try to avoid use of a net or removal of the fish from water.

If you are moving the fish from bucket to bucket anyway, there is no reason to use copper. There is a similar and very effective method of treatment for Ich, which should also work for marine velvet, called the "transfer method". This method involves moving the fish every 3 days to a new tank, then sterilizing the previous tank by either letting it thoroughly dry out for 48 hours or using chlorine bleach.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/mini5.htm

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Okay This is working for me.

I have him back in the hospital tank with fresh new water straight from the set up aquarium... heater, airstone, everything he needs we even put 2 coffee mugs in there to give him something to rest against and hide in.

We purchased Maracyn PLus in the liquid form and I have a feeling this is going to work. Already he is looking better Swimming and moving more, his fins are more open too. He still isnt eatting though and I think this is because of the stressful ammonia level that had built up in 2 days!!!!

So everyday before I add the Maracyn I'm going to do a 50% water change to the tank to keep ammonia levels down.

My question is ... the Maracyn says to treat one the 1st, 3rd, and 5th day. IS it okay to add it everyday since I will be doing a 50% water change each day? or should I do the 1, 3 , and 5 day interval method? And after the 5th day can I still keep treating?

I really feel that what he has is Bacterial... the fin rot is what is most giving it away and the whitish gray patch like sores on either side of the body seem bacterial as well.

I wish I could get him to eat though. TOUR KID I am in the same boat.. but you cant give UP!

 

[TOURKID]

i bought mayacyn 2 tonight and put in two tablets, and will continue with 1 tab a day. My amonias up to, im only doing 2 gallon changes
are you re adding coppersafe with each water change? my clowns fins are fraying bad and have holes right thru the middles of them. his cheeks are swelled and this is the fouth day without food. she also has white stringy poop whitch shes never had and shes got red spots... the only place i see these are on her yellow stripes, shes a red fish so i cant imagine whats really going on. breathing heavy to

at the beginning of this i was so scared it was ick, now id love it to be

You know, i did give up for a bit today, i couldent find any answers no one had any opinions, SAT helped me alot and i got another wind. I think tonight will be my fishes hardest night. cant wait to see her tomorrow

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

You need to mix up a few buckets of new saltwater and have them sitting to the side... so everyday you can change like 50% of the water... its alot I know... but we gotta keep the ammonia down... afterall... the medicine may be working but your fish wont be responding properly if the toxic ammonia is affecting him. My fish is looking a lot better when I am keeping the ammonia at zero.... you should do the same. DO the water change everyday and then add the medicine... and if I cant get mine to eat soon I'll be pretty much where you are... but honestly its the high ammonia thats gonna keep him from eating even if he starts to get better.. thats why ammonia needs to not even be a factor in the mix.

PS: I have gotten the advice that the Maracyn PLUS ( liquid form) with microscopic biospheres is better to treat with rather than the powder or tablet form you may consider that.

I am no longer using the copper safe... just the Maracyn... Maracyn PLUS is supposedly 2 antibiotics in one that treats a wide range of infections... thats why I'm just going with that for now to see what heppens... so far better... Fish actually swims now. I got more info for you too... I'lll post soon.

 

[TOURKID]

mine wont stop swimming, she likes the surface, more oxygen for her tired gills

i saw the maracyn plus, i dident have any knowledgable sales staff where i was. so i went with sat's advice. I filled another bucket of water. ill try 50% tomorrow, theres no food going in and no poop, just the amonia caused by her breathing, its not spiking high enough to change past the first color on one test i have. i bought another ammonia test tonight, ill do it in the morning after lights on.

Its like she doesent even see/smell/feel the food it even bouces off her. worries me shes such a pig. I almost bought her a fake anemone tonight, i feel bad taking hers away


hopefully we'll have eaters tomorrow

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

yeah same with my tang the seaweed clip is right in front of her nose and she just sits beside it.

The Ammonia isnt caused by the fish breathing... ammonia comes from the wastes the fish produces. All the extra breathing is doing is increasing the carbon dioxide in the tank thats why you wanna make sure you've got an airstone in there or some really good Circulation for oxygen....

what have you been using for treatment and for how long have you been using it? YOu havent seen any signs of her getting better? And this sounds like a fish you have had... that just suddenly got sick? or is it a relatively new fish? Mine is new... I've had her maybe 10 days.... so I cant imagine something in my tank made her this way I just think tangs are delicate and maybe just the stress of moving caused her to get sick

 

[TOURKID]

ive had her about a month and 1/2 she suddenly got sick, she was finje and eating in the morning and 3 hours later she was acting really weird, had a funk on a fin and her lower lip and wouldent eat. i qt'ed her that night, 4 days ago, treated her with nox ixk for 2 days, coppersafe lastnight, maracyn 2 now, im sticking with the copper and maracyn, she looked her very worst this afternoon, here she is, she got a lil worse than this. you can see her cheeks look like lil round puffy balls

ill add an airstone tomorrow., they raise ph tho.. and a higher ph.... god im not a scientist but i feel like im trying here lol


this is feebee (stands for f***ing b***ch) because she almost killed the second maroon in the tank, thats why i only have one fish (feebee) she attacked everything but her lover anemone lol

not even a week ago

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

aww she looks beautiful... lol and honestly not bad.. I wish you could see mine.. and you wouldnt feel so bad about yours.... I just checked on mine ... now she has lil white tiny dots on her lower half... which is either ick or velvet... probably from more stress of the ammonia I had earlier and then moving her from tank to bucket...back to tank... so I just added the copper since the Maracyn wont do much for ick or velvet.... so shes getting treated with both. I love the Clowns name lol.... and Her Lover anemone thats cute..... what kind is it by the way?... maybe by tomorrow we will see signs of them getting better I hope

 

[TOURKID]

its a bubble tip my fish looks way way better today. the swelling went down and her top fin is up.

I did a 4 gal water change, water is REALLY yellow, not sure if its the medication or the organics doing it.

I threw in a pellet that has antibiotic in it and she noticed it! shes never liked pellets so i think when i throw in a mysis... well, im hoping.. shes gonna eat it

I added copper to balance out the water change.

does your fish have white poop? Id feel so much better if mine dident

when you added copper.. was all your copper out from before? if your not sure buy a copper test that tests for non chelated copper asap.

I guess the copper treats alot of external parasites so we might as well go full treatment.

Sorry to hear about the ick. The copper should help her. if you see her scratching remove everything u can that shes scratching agianst. I lost my first fish to ick, and she scratched so bad she injured her eye, it wasent pretty at all.


Ive now spent about 5 times the amount the fish cost me to begin with *grins* i bought this tank for my boyfriend for xmas... nice present for him, i spend 3 times the amount of time on the tank than i do with him *eeekk* he thinks im nuts lol