Why are achilles tangs so expensive?

[Winwood]

Eight years ago I took my first visit to a local wholesaler. The first fish I purchased was an achilles tang. I paid eight dollars for it wholesale. I kept it in my 80 gallon FOWLR at the time and it did great. It ate immediately and was my favorite fish for over a year.

To put it mildly I am perplexed as to why this fish costs so much. The places where they are collected are common sites and this fish is in abundance in many of them. On top of it all this fish has a low survival record and if one went by the same model for pricing, a moorish idol should be over $200 as well. It's a widely distributed, common in the wild, beautiful fish that rarely survives acclimation, yet MIs can be purchased at reasonable prices.

If anyone has any insight on this topic I would love to get to bottom of this mystery.

 

[Evyllchyld]

Demand? I'm sure there is a lot more demand for an achilles when compared to a MI. On top of that, with them not acclimating well, there is even more of a demand.

 

[ReefMoto]

Hawaii banned the export of reef fish and coral recently, im not 100 % but im pretty sure thats why prices went up... I remember when I went to the whole salers and bought a purple tang for 5 bucks , $140+ now that red sea countrys dont export to the U.S.

 

[aleonn]

You paid $8 wholesale 8 years ago. Just curious what the retail price was at that time, just so we're comparing apples to apples?

 

[philter4]

Hawaii banned the export of reef fish and coral recently, im not 100 % but im pretty sure thats why prices went up... I remember when I went to the whole salers and bought a purple tang for 5 bucks , $140+ now that red sea countrys dont export to the U.S.

Unless something happened on January 1st, Hawaii has not banned the collection or sale of fishes yet, although they try different legislation every year and this year is no exception, corals were never legal to take from Hawaii since sometime in the 70's when it was banned all over the USA. I was just there in November and December and collected with a commercial collector on the Big Island and there are new regulations on size and total number of fish collected per day, they still collect and sell aquarium fish. The new size limits on yellow tangs is going to make their prices go even higher, the new size limits of a legal yellow tang will be between a minimum of 2 inches to a maximum of 4 and 1/2 inches, no more giant ones from Hawaii. As far as I know there are no new rules or regulations concerning the Red Sea for 2012 either, although I don't know much about local laws or regulations for that area, there are Red Sea fish available now and the prices have not changed so I am thinking there are no new rules.

There are several reasons they have increased in price. First, while they are found all over Oceania and even a few as far east as Mexico, except for the occasional individual they are only regularly collected for the aquarium trade in Hawaii. Also they are found in the surf zone, making them very difficult to collect by normal collection methods. In Hawaii they are eaten by locals who take by throw net and spear, this has reduced the number of larger individuals (the breeders) thus dropping the population of aquarium sized fish in areas where they are collected. Finally it is a very large tang and even though some do well, overall they are not an easy fish to keep in captivity, most of them do not survive to adult size once collected.

The fish is not endangered of becoming extinct, it is illegal to collect or take any fish over most of the 137 Hawaiian Islands (the Northwest Chain of the Hawaiian islands has over 100 named islands, islets, and atolls besides the 8 inhabited islands we normally call "Hawaii") so it's total population is safe, but because of it's habitat being so close to shore it is easily taken anywhere people live it is becoming harder to find.

 

[ReeFantasy]

They should ban the Hawaii thing for a few years then create a small window for removing fish from there once or twice a year.

 

[philter4]

They should ban the Hawaii thing for a few years then create a small window for removing fish from there once or twice a year.

This statement is so naive that I have to strongly disagree, it is a simple thing to blame the pet trade for a fish population being depleted on aquariums but look at the facts. In Hawaii it is illegal to use any drug, all fish are collected with hand or barrier nets. They are collected with scuba gear, which means that realistically they have to be collected in the top 200 ft of water, any fish below this is off limits. As a single diver you can not collect every fish you see, they just get away, either under/over the net, into the coral, left or right and you swim right by them. Even if you could collect every fish you saw, how many fish do you think you could see and collect in a 40 minute dive as a single person?

Hawaii now protects 30% of it's shoreline from aquarium collection and since that protection has occurred the population of yellow tangs and potters angels has increased, the same thing happened in FL, they protected 10% of the Nasau and goliath grouper breeding grounds from fishing and the fish population has returned to former numbers.

The real reason fish populations are in trouble is because of pollution and man made beach restorations. It is more appropriate to ban the tourist industry than it is to ban aquarium collecting, the fish populations would be far better off if we stopped damaging the habitats. Here is an example that always makes me sick, in Florida, it is a common thing for the state to add beach sand to the coast line. They dredge the sand off shore (which kills everything around the dredge as it just sucks everything in it's path up onto a barge) and put it on the shore line, usually in front of hotels and popular beaches. They have to do this every 3 years or so because the beach sand gets washed back with each storm season, so the process is constant, moving up and down the coast. As the sand and silt flows back into the ocean it kills ever piece of algae and coral by suffocation, coating it in mud and sand. As a result the fish die or leave because there is no basis for a food chain, causing deserts all along the coast at the first reef line. A beach restoration project will kill acres and acres of coral reef and it is a legal process sponsered by the state, but try to collect a single piece of coral for your tank and if you get caught you will be fined and lose all of your equipment including your boat as a penalty.

 

[pacislandaqua]

Philter - perfectly put!! Its really frustrating trying to explain the whole collection process to an uneducated person (not necessarily "dumb" just uneducated on the subject or naive)

Achilles numbers have dropped dramatically in the last 3 years. Why? DLNR believe it is because of food fish collectors as they target the biggest ones for food because they are paid more per pound. Collectors only take the small/medium ones. Food fish guys kill 8-10" ones which are the breeders. They also sell them at the fish markets for 6$/lb and there are coolers filled with xlrg achilles. Collectors have nothing to do with it.

Hanauma Bay in Hawaii is one of the biggest tourist spots in the world. The reef in this bay is 100% dead. All collection in this area has been banded for a long time, but yet the reef is still completely dead. How can you blame collectors for this?? That accusation is insane! Tourists walk all over the reef with giant fins stomping away. There isn't a single piece of coral in this bay until you get past the break where its 20-30 feet (where you can't stand up)

Im all for regulation in Hawaii (even though it IS self regulated) but only if done accurately and scientifically. Not because a self proclaimed activist wants to be on TV.

 

[Winwood]

You paid $8 wholesale 8 years ago. Just curious what the retail price was at that time, just so we're comparing apples to apples?

We would sell them for $25 at the shop I worked at. The thing is they were common at the wholesaler we would visit. They would have several each week and they were always cheap at about a third the price of PB tangs. They stayed that way for a year or so after I bought my first one until their prices started to sky rocket everywhere else. Then they started becoming more expensive.

The thing is there was no apparent reason for their price increase. No ban on collection or anything. I realize they may be hard to collect but I can't imagine they are harder than a PB, which is pretty much the same fish with a different paint job.

 

[SDguy]

Eight years ago I took my first visit to a local wholesaler. The first fish I purchased was an achilles tang. I paid eight dollars for it wholesale. I kept it in my 80 gallon FOWLR at the time and it did great. It ate immediately and was my favorite fish for over a year.

It's funny. 25 years ago, no one cared about achilles tangs, because powder blues were so much prettier/more desirable. I can't recall even ever getting an achilles in at the LFS I worked at.

 

[aandfsoccr04]

I love reading a very informative thread. Can any of you talk more about the regulations on collecting fish?

 

[philter4]

The thing is there was no apparent reason for their price increase. No ban on collection or anything. I realize they may be hard to collect but I can't imagine they are harder than a PB, which is pretty much the same fish with a different paint job.

The habitat makes them a lot harder to collect then a PB tang, achilles tangs live in the surf zone, it is very difficult to dive there any day that there is any sort of surge and collecting a fish alive is a lot different than spearing one for food. They are also becoming much harder to find because of pressure from the food fishing industry.

 

[pacislandaqua]

PBTs are literally everywhere in the wild... 1000s all over the micronesia... Achilles are exported out of Hawaii... so now that people can keep them alive longer with the new and improved equipment that keeps coming out, more people want to try them. Thus an increase in demand, and more pressure to collect them. So with this as well as the breeders being speared for food, it puts a lot of pressure on the population. There are no where near the numbers of achilles there were 4+ years ago... Not even comparable.. hence the increase in price. Plus they are diving much further away to get them, and when they use to bring back 100 a day from town side (10 min boat ride) now they are going to south point (3 hour boat ride) and getting 20-30...

People may not like it, but the numbers dont lie.

 

[aquaph8]

Why is that they say yellow tang populations have increased but Achilles have declined. I would think Yellows would be exported a lot more. Just more to start with?

 

[Winwood]

Both Philter and Pacificland, great information, thank you for contributing. Is there any reason why they couldn't collect achilles out of some of their other habitats such as Fiji, Tonga, Solomons etc.? These are all common collection sites where achilles are found yet the price of the fish remains high.

Pacificland, I was unaware PBTs were found in Micronesia? I thought Indonesia was as far west as their distribution reached. Do you have any evidence to support this?

 

[Winwood]

Why is that they say yellow tang populations have increased but Achilles have declined. I would think Yellows would be exported a lot more. Just more to start with?

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.

 

[philter4]

Why is that they say yellow tang populations have increased but Achilles have declined. I would think Yellows would be exported a lot more. Just more to start with?

There are several reasons for this, first people don't eat yellow tangs while Achilles are very popular with the locals. Second, when fishing for food you always try to take the biggest individuals, which are also the most productive breeders. Third yellow tangs are schooling fish so they are far more common in a particular spot then Achilles which drive out conspecifics from an area so there is only one here and one there. Here is a photo I took right near shore on my last trip in November, this was only part of the yellow tang school that was there but that whole day I only saw 2 Achilles tangs, both of them too big to put in even a large home aquarium.

Winwood, as far as collecting them in other areas, they are only common in Hawaii, everywhere else they are considered uncommon to rare making them just as expensive if they are collected as they are in Hawaii. As I mentioned, they will never become extinct, the bulk of their range is the Northwest Chain where it is illegal to even go and fish or scuba dive without a permit and there is no aquarium collections allowed no matter what, so they will always have a protected place to breed.

 

[gasman059]

this statement is so naive that i have to strongly disagree, it is a simple thing to blame the pet trade for a fish population being depleted on aquariums but look at the facts. In hawaii it is illegal to use any drug, all fish are collected with hand or barrier nets. They are collected with scuba gear, which means that realistically they have to be collected in the top 200 ft of water, any fish below this is off limits. As a single diver you can not collect every fish you see, they just get away, either under/over the net, into the coral, left or right and you swim right by them. Even if you could collect every fish you saw, how many fish do you think you could see and collect in a 40 minute dive as a single person?

Hawaii now protects 30% of it's shoreline from aquarium collection and since that protection has occurred the population of yellow tangs and potters angels has increased, the same thing happened in fl, they protected 10% of the nasau and goliath grouper breeding grounds from fishing and the fish population has returned to former numbers.

The real reason fish populations are in trouble is because of pollution and man made beach restorations. It is more appropriate to ban the tourist industry than it is to ban aquarium collecting, the fish populations would be far better off if we stopped damaging the habitats. Here is an example that always makes me sick, in florida, it is a common thing for the state to add beach sand to the coast line. They dredge the sand off shore (which kills everything around the dredge as it just sucks everything in it's path up onto a barge) and put it on the shore line, usually in front of hotels and popular beaches. They have to do this every 3 years or so because the beach sand gets washed back with each storm season, so the process is constant, moving up and down the coast. As the sand and silt flows back into the ocean it kills ever piece of algae and coral by suffocation, coating it in mud and sand. As a result the fish die or leave because there is no basis for a food chain, causing deserts all along the coast at the first reef line. A beach restoration project will kill acres and acres of coral reef and it is a legal process sponsered by the state, but try to collect a single piece of coral for your tank and if you get caught you will be fined and lose all of your equipment including your boat as a penalty.

ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Luiz Rocha]

Why is that they say yellow tang populations have increased but Achilles have declined. I would think Yellows would be exported a lot more. Just more to start with?

Achilles are declining because they are targeted by recreational fisheries (weekend snorkelers with pole spears). Yellow tangs are not targeted by spearfishermen.

 

[freedive43]

Achilles are collected in other locales, such as French polynesia. However, the additional airfreight charges on a fish that size make them land in LAX at the same price as their Hawaiian counterparts.