Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

howdy herby-
i've been subscribing to this theory for awhile now (but just found your thread) and my new 58 for the most part follows the formula...

the deviation being-i could prolly use a smaller return pump but my skimmer is awfully oversized (deltec ap600) so the flow thru the sump is roughly equal to the flow thru the skimmer...maybe a lil more...

system specs-
58g rr with 15ish gallon sump
return pump is a panworld 30 (figuring around 200gph after head and frictional losses~30W).
closed loop is a panworld 40 (figuring 400-450gph~45W) returning to the tank via an OM squirt (2 way) with Revolutions in the front right and back left of tank.
finally a stream 6000 (~15W) aimed diagonally from back right to left provides a great deal of flow in the tank.
at this point the skimmer is supplied by an external-tiny-panworld 10 (~20W) but at some point i may try to gravity feed the skimmer.

totaling about 110W i have >40x turnover in my tank, and with all the external pumps i hopefully will be able go without a chiller. so far so good...

i submit this system for energy star approval...

btw-lighting is a single 250DE w/dual t5 actinics slightly more than 300W all told but sufficient IME for anything sps or clammy
tg
 
Mr. Kornfield I was wondering if you could please review this professional schematic of my tank and my plan..

setip9qd.png



What size return and what size overflow tubing should I be looking to get. I would like to use tubing, not PVC. Also I need to know what type of "t" I should use for the returns. What kind of head loss am I looking at?

I am thinking the 1250 is the pump for me pr. your recommendation. Is it okay to run it externally? (i am assuming yes)

My skimmer is a g3 and I'm adding another Sedra 5000 (or maybe 9000?) onto it as a recirculating.

For the in tank circulation I will be using closed loop powered by on a pcx-55 (to be upgraded when I have the cash) with 2 penductors. I will also have a big seio in the tank.

How does all this sound??

EDIT: the tank will be barebottom and mostly/all SPS's
 
First, with only 150-200gph likely to make it back up to the tank with an eheim 1250, why bother splitting it? Just leave it as one line. And the 1250 works fine externally. Common 1/2" ID - 5/8" OD tubing would be fine for this return. As for your overflows, you can use 1"MPT-3/4" barb fittings, and then clamp 3/4"ID - 1" OD tubing to connect to the sump.

As for the skimmer...I might not be the guy to talk to on that. Adding a pump as a recirc to a skimmer while keeping the existing pump as well kind of defeats the purpose of a RC skimmer...you might be working against yourself. If you convert a skimmer to RC from standard, you can often double the size of the mixing pump, but the tradeoff is that you cut the skimmmer's throughput down to 1x - 2x the tank size per hour so all those extra bubbles dont come flying out like a single pass skimmer. I say sure to the sedra 9000 on a recirc, add a skimmer inlet towards the top of the skimmer body. This is used on RC skimmers to give the skimmer a downdraft flow, water passing through the skimmer from top to bottom, and getting mixed with bubbles multiple times on the way. The skimmer inlet could be fed with water from the overflows directly...150gph flowthrough would be perfect. Keeping both pumps on at once could end up fogging the tank.
 
It took me awhile to understand what you are saying about the recirculating mod with 2 pumps..

Basically I am moving water thru the skimmer with a fast pump (Sedra 5000) so the other pump actually doesn't have much contact time with the water.. Correct?

Honestly, I don't think I'm down with cutting a hole in the top of my skimmer yet, So I'm thinking I'll just upgrade the pump to a 9000. With only 150 GPH going thru the sump, It's basically recirculating all of the water in the sump like 8 times in that hour.

But now that I'm thinking about it, It's not really because I am not necessarily getting contact time with all of the water in the sump.. I understand now.
 
If I do decide to feed directly from the overflow what do I do with the other overflow output? Can I tee them off to make them 1 so that ALL of the water goes thru the skimmer?
 
Small tank question

Small tank question

First - amazing thread! Thank you to everyone who has contributed - especially Herbert!

I am new to all of this and I am glad I found this thread early on. Plus, the one complaint my wife always has when looking at tanks is the NOISE! I am sure she will love this concept! Anyway....

Most of the posts here deal with large tanks. I am only setting up a 30 long so I want to make sure I have my thoughts in order as I begin putting things together. Here are my thoughts:

- 1" drain from tank into approx. 10 gal sump w/5 gal refugium
- MR-1 skimmer w/Mag12 pump (pump recommendation from MR-1 manufacturer)
- Eheim 1250 (or even a Mag 2) in the sump with split discharge (with ball valve on each split) to send about 1/2 flow back to tank and the other half to the refugium.
- 3/4" return line to tank
- Closed loop system (maybe another Mag12) for circulation

I thought by using the Eheim 1250 (or Mag 2) in the sump and splitting the discharge to the tank and refugium I could keep a relatively low-flow to the tank and a relatively high flow to the refugium. (The refugium overflows back into the sump.)

Does this sound like a solid plan to work from? This is very new to me and I want to do it right.

Thanks again,

Kyle

On a side note: Would a Turbelle Stream 6000 be too much for a 30 long (36" tank). The specs recommend a 53+ gal tank.:)
 
That skimmer is waaaay overkill for a 30g...that is the first thing I see that could be improved. A mag12 is a power whore as well...110watts! Its for tanks as large as 175 gallons. If low noise and not wasting energy is what you want...this is not going to be your best bet. I wouldnt use a beckett or any venturi driven (in concept, I consider all AquaC's, ETSS, becketts, mazzei skimmers to be nothing but variations on the venturi idea). An asperating venturi, or needlewheel skimmer is a much better choice. I run the skimmer on my 40B with nothing other than 24watts...at most 50watts should be enough for a setup this size. A nice ASM, ER, or deltec would be a better choice. Even a Coralife SuperSkimmer would be better.

Otherwise, your recirculating refugium idea is great. It might be challenging to set it to the right flow, so a needle valve might be better to use on the bypass than a ball valve...or use a ball valve that is smaller...1/2" on the bypass, and maybe reduce its output to 1/4" as well...just to help.

Your overflow sounds bulletproof as well.

As for the closed loop, you might consider other options. As you can tell, I am not a fan of the mags...they are power hogs and heat your tank better than anything. You might consider in tank powerheads, or a SEIO superflow...something to lower your power needs yet provide great flow. Yes, a TUNZE would be too big for your tank...the minimum tank size that I have seen just one work would be a 50g. OTOH, a couple of Maxi-Jet 1200s on a wave timer would work great. Or, skip the wave timer, and simply have one of the powerheads with a Hydor Flo rotating output on it. Those Hydors are a great little gadget for $12. I have seen a few people use nothing for their tanks flow other than a SEIO superflow and a maxi-jet 1200 with a hydor that rotates so that at one point it is aimed right into the SEIOs outlet...the wave action of the MJ1200 turns the outlet of the SEIO into a larger wave maker as well. For a 30g, you have much better options than a Mag12 on a closed loop.
 
Thanks for the reply and the suggestions.... I live in the same town as the manufacturer of the MR-1 (My Reef Creations) so there is a pretty big following around Atlanta for his products. That is why I was leaning that way, but now you have me doing some additional research on the skimmers you mentioned. And I thought I was going to bed soon.... :-)

I have also been following the DIY thread to convert MaxiJet's into "Tunze clones" using a propeller.... but that is another thread and I don't want to get off topic. I will check out the Hydor Flo too. With a combination of the SEIO @ 18w and the MaxiJet @ 20w, that would certainly be significantly less than one Mag 12 @ 110w!

Thanks again!
 
I switch 0n my 90G tank from Mag 7 to a Mag 3 and run all the sump return water directly through the skimmer much more quiet and easy on my packet.
125108-24-05_001__Medium_.jpg

Also i switch from Iwaki 70RLT to Iwaki 30RLXT for my 200 G sump return .
I had to take the chiller of line it completely stop running, I din't know the Iwaki 70RLT put so much heat in the tank water.
 
I'm sorry if this has been asked before but please help. I have a lot of lights heating up my tank and I must run a chiller. Arctica 1/3 hp. It us currently hooked up in line with my return pump which is a Blueline 70. Because of the head pressure, I may need an even larger pump to get enough water through the chiller to keep my tank cool. Should I take the chiller off the return line and just run it in and out of my sump with a different pump?

My tank is a 210 AGA with a 30 gallon sump.
 
mobert said:
I'm sorry if this has been asked before but please help. I have a lot of lights heating up my tank and I must run a chiller. Arctica 1/3 hp. It us currently hooked up in line with my return pump which is a Blueline 70. Because of the head pressure, I may need an even larger pump to get enough water through the chiller to keep my tank cool. Should I take the chiller off the return line and just run it in and out of my sump with a different pump?

My tank is a 210 AGA with a 30 gallon sump.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you need a chiller if you do the same as me you don't need a chiller. You still need to run a A/C at 74F in the summer.
I have almost the same size tank but I did upgrade all my pumps and skimmer to get there.
Before the upgrade my tank was running hot the chiller will come on every hour for twenty minutes.
Right now is 85F outside my tank with all the lights on is 78F.79F
 
Last edited:
Zoom said:
I don't know why you need a chiller if you do the same as me you don't need a chiller. You still need to run a A/C at 74F in the summer.
I have almost the same size tank but I did upgrade all my pumps and skimmer to get there.
Before the upgrade my tank was running hot the chiller will come on every hour for twenty minutes.
Right now is 85F outside my tank with all the lights on is 78F.79F
Click to expand...

I have 1430 watts of lights on my tank in a enclosed cabinet (with venting in the back) I'll try turning my ac to 74 and see if that helps.

Thanks
 
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