acro-wrasse
New member
Since I don't own a shop I can't answer for the dry goods,
but the live stock deaths in transit would have to be made up by those that live.... making costs higher.
Why werent any LFS at the swap?
- Thread starter eyebedam
- Start date
Since I don't own a shop I can't answer for the dry goods,
but the live stock deaths in transit would have to be made up by those that live.... making costs higher.
rsteagall
New member
I don't think this post was intended to talk about the things we're talking about. It seemed to have gotten hijacked early on 
My answer is straight from the horses mouth. They basically don't like doing their jobs on their day off which is totally understandable. We don't like doing that either.
The end. Please lock thread.
heh.
My answer is straight from the horses mouth. They basically don't like doing their jobs on their day off which is totally understandable. We don't like doing that either.The end. Please lock thread.
heh.
Countzer0
New member
First I don't speak offically for Emerald Bay ...hell i just sit on the freezer most of the time ... but I will say Gary did contact us and we were really going to try to go ... right now its Kevin and myself working there with Sean and some part timers working between school. Unfortunalty we had to cancel on Gary and I would have loved to have gone if nothing more than to say hallo. As far as not wanting to do it on my day off..... I love my job! I am there most of the time on my days off... unfortunatly most Sat. I am just slammed!!! I hate that we were not able to come ... and I feel that frag swaps can be a great way to promote our buisness not undermind it ... unless rcmike figured out a way to frag fish ... ( don't put it past him! ) the LFS will aways have a place in this hobby. and Gary your are 100% right on as far as livestock and wholesale prices ... we go through a middle man a distributer or t.rans shipper ... Doc foster and others sell sometimes cheeper than we can order it in ... Our buisness is changing and in turn we must change ...but i still think that there is something about walking into a store and talking to people just as obsessed with the hobby as yuou are.!
Jason
... but I will say Gary did contact us and we were really going to try to go ... right now its Kevin and myself working there with Sean and some part timers working between school. Unfortunalty we had to cancel on Gary and I would have loved to have gone if nothing more than to say hallo. As far as not wanting to do it on my day off..... I love my job! I am there most of the time on my days off... unfortunatly most Sat. I am just slammed!!! I hate that we were not able to come ... and I feel that frag swaps can be a great way to promote our buisness not undermind it ... unless rcmike figured out a way to frag fish ... ( don't put it past him! ) the LFS will aways have a place in this hobby. and Gary your are 100% right on as far as livestock and wholesale prices ... we go through a middle man a distributer or t.rans shipper ... Doc foster and others sell sometimes cheeper than we can order it in ... Our buisness is changing and in turn we must change ...but i still think that there is something about walking into a store and talking to people just as obsessed with the hobby as yuou are.!Jason
theop
Active member
I have never unstood why retailers couldn't just order their store stock from these online stores if they could buy items from them cheaper than from their supplier. Does it have to do with contracts with their suppliers or reselling items purchased online?
If I had a retail store, I'd try to buy my items from wherever had them cheapest to maximize my profits.
If I had a retail store, I'd try to buy my items from wherever had them cheapest to maximize my profits.
FWIW there was one coral vendor there who charged typical shop prices and did very well. He said it was one of the best swaps he has attended
Another thought. Reefers spend way more money than most other aquarists on their tanks. I don't think twice about going in and plopping down $75-$100 on a coral or fish I really want. That's more than most aquarists spend to stock their whole tank. I also usually spend ~$20 if I am buying food which I am sure is also more than most aquarists spend on a can of flake food once every few months. What I am trying to say is only a percentage of a reefers buisness is probably more profitable than your average customer.
Chris
Oldschooler
New member
Feh. Hadda work all day (busy, busy sundays), THEN go eat dinner with the in-laws (birthday dinner for a relative). Sooooo much to reply to, most of it I'm gonna have to skip for the sake of practicality.
Gary, I never felt much love from you, anyway, so it's no surprise to me you would be one to take my original post (a reply to a question that went ignored by you), and then say I have a "passion" for an argument. There WAS no argument from this end. The "argument" started (as usual) when certain people don't like what I say. Furthermore, your "facts" are no more so factual than my "opinions" (which, by the way, I never stated were "facts" but rather, "answers"- answers to a question. Facts are nothing more than theories that have yet to be disproven. If you want to BELIEVE everything you are told by your friends at the LFS, then go right ahead. In business, people sometimes tell you that which they want you to know (or believe). It's called diplomacy (many would say I lack it, entirely!). I hear different things in response to the same questions asked from the same people you ask them from. And to be honest, G-flat, the instruction on "marketing skills" is unnecessary. Since I had a store full of people all day today, it's quite plain to me that *I* know how to "market" myself and the products and services I sell, JUST FINE. If YOU and your friends don't like me or my opinions, you can ALWAYS ignore my posts, and spend your money elsewhere- I'm totally cool with that. NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with the original question, or my answer to it (which I appreciate all the publicity to, by the way).
Further, my statement that I'd been involved with the MTRC at it's beginning was to show my perspective to the original poster or anyone reading the post who may not know me or from whence I gather my opinions- NOT to prove anything to the rest of you, whom are so eager to read too much into it. It's no more "silly", as fishdoc said, to bring it up than it is for him to go on about how many people view this forum (in and of itself a form of bragging- which isn't what I was doing).
Why are you all so defensive, anyway? If you are all so supportive of the LFS, then I'm wrong, and it's a dead issue. Perhaps my original sin was simply hitting a little too close to home.
I will agree with many of you about ONE thing, for sure... I've told more than one local shopkeeper that the nature of the beast is changing. The original post wasn't meant to delve into all the REASONS LFS can't compete with the 'net- but it jumped tracks and quickly went that way, didn't it? But I TOTALLY agree that brick-and-mortar retailers are going to have to completely overhaul the way they do things, or they will die. Again, we're seeing WAY too many "mainstream" businesses recede right now, and it should be a scary thing for us ALL. I keep hearing the same reasons over and over for purchasing on-line (chiefly, that being that no individual wants to purposefully pay more than they have to). The problem is, it's all connected! The value of EVERYTHING is reduced to the lowest denominator. Meaning, if "x" brand of metal hallide lighting is purchased on-line from "y" company for, say, a hundred bucks, then EVERYONE in the world instantly values this product at $100. Never again can anyone sell this fixture for MORE than $100. without the ugly accusation that they are "ripping someone off". Well, if you used to make your living selling this fixture by marking it up, you then have to sell something else. But eventually, EVERYTHING in the WORLD is going to be sold on-line or by Wal-Mart, at the LOWEST price possible, to everyone, everywhere. Then, if you don't work for Wal-Mart, a shipper, or some similar, stripped-down industry (such as coal-mining), you will be in trouble! Our "market" economy was BUILT on the idea that we could create fiat money and sell things at prices higher than we paid for them! When the world has access to "wholesale" prices, there will be an awful lot of displaced persons competing for whatever job it is you think you have a lock on, now!
Listen, everybody... This whole thing has been a reminder to me why I quit posting, anyway. I popped in, saw a question that had gone unanswered, felt I had a answer for said person, and then I was shown that people aren't allowed to have opinions. You win. I'm out. Take your ball and go home, now! Post whatever you want- it will go unchallenged.)))
Happy reefing!
Gary, I never felt much love from you, anyway, so it's no surprise to me you would be one to take my original post (a reply to a question that went ignored by you), and then say I have a "passion" for an argument. There WAS no argument from this end. The "argument" started (as usual) when certain people don't like what I say. Furthermore, your "facts" are no more so factual than my "opinions" (which, by the way, I never stated were "facts" but rather, "answers"- answers to a question. Facts are nothing more than theories that have yet to be disproven. If you want to BELIEVE everything you are told by your friends at the LFS, then go right ahead. In business, people sometimes tell you that which they want you to know (or believe). It's called diplomacy (many would say I lack it, entirely!).
I hear different things in response to the same questions asked from the same people you ask them from. And to be honest, G-flat, the instruction on "marketing skills" is unnecessary. Since I had a store full of people all day today, it's quite plain to me that *I* know how to "market" myself and the products and services I sell, JUST FINE. If YOU and your friends don't like me or my opinions, you can ALWAYS ignore my posts, and spend your money elsewhere- I'm totally cool with that. NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with the original question, or my answer to it (which I appreciate all the publicity to, by the way).Further, my statement that I'd been involved with the MTRC at it's beginning was to show my perspective to the original poster or anyone reading the post who may not know me or from whence I gather my opinions- NOT to prove anything to the rest of you, whom are so eager to read too much into it. It's no more "silly", as fishdoc said, to bring it up than it is for him to go on about how many people view this forum (in and of itself a form of bragging- which isn't what I was doing).
Why are you all so defensive, anyway? If you are all so supportive of the LFS, then I'm wrong, and it's a dead issue. Perhaps my original sin was simply hitting a little too close to home.
I will agree with many of you about ONE thing, for sure... I've told more than one local shopkeeper that the nature of the beast is changing. The original post wasn't meant to delve into all the REASONS LFS can't compete with the 'net- but it jumped tracks and quickly went that way, didn't it? But I TOTALLY agree that brick-and-mortar retailers are going to have to completely overhaul the way they do things, or they will die. Again, we're seeing WAY too many "mainstream" businesses recede right now, and it should be a scary thing for us ALL. I keep hearing the same reasons over and over for purchasing on-line (chiefly, that being that no individual wants to purposefully pay more than they have to). The problem is, it's all connected! The value of EVERYTHING is reduced to the lowest denominator. Meaning, if "x" brand of metal hallide lighting is purchased on-line from "y" company for, say, a hundred bucks, then EVERYONE in the world instantly values this product at $100. Never again can anyone sell this fixture for MORE than $100. without the ugly accusation that they are "ripping someone off". Well, if you used to make your living selling this fixture by marking it up, you then have to sell something else. But eventually, EVERYTHING in the WORLD is going to be sold on-line or by Wal-Mart, at the LOWEST price possible, to everyone, everywhere. Then, if you don't work for Wal-Mart, a shipper, or some similar, stripped-down industry (such as coal-mining), you will be in trouble! Our "market" economy was BUILT on the idea that we could create fiat money and sell things at prices higher than we paid for them! When the world has access to "wholesale" prices, there will be an awful lot of displaced persons competing for whatever job it is you think you have a lock on, now!
Listen, everybody... This whole thing has been a reminder to me why I quit posting, anyway. I popped in, saw a question that had gone unanswered, felt I had a answer for said person, and then I was shown that people aren't allowed to have opinions. You win. I'm out. Take your ball and go home, now! Post whatever you want- it will go unchallenged.
)))Happy reefing!
Mikeyjer
New member
I feel the same way. I've been to numerous pet shops throughout different states. My family used to own a restaurant and it's just the same as a pet shop. You have to know your stuff and promote everything you know. The comments from oldschool is a bit harsh in my opinion. I do support the local LFS. But I really don't see the need to mark up sooo much on price. If they mark it at a affordable price, they may be able to sell it at a faster rate. I have once helped a pet shop sell around $600 worth of stuffs within 20min cause I know my stuffs, there were two customers looking for a pet bird and the shop was full of people and they were really busy. I was a regular at the shop. I talked to those two and help them pick out a good first pet bird and the supplies they will be needing for the bird. I got my first bird there, they give me a big discount after I helped them that day. They wanted me to work there, but I couldn't at that time. Same with quite a few stores around here, they want me to work for them too, but I get paid better at my job!!
I don't think the MTRC harms any LFS, I think matter of fact it helps them to generate more business and knowledge! Ken at AC has asked me IF I joined the MTRC before I knew about this site. He said that I should join in, so I don't think MTRC was doing any harm to any of the business around if they would ask me something like that. One problem with MOST shop workers is they generally don't talk to their customers in honest opinion, I know it's a sale's pitch, but still you have to be honest with them if you want to further relationship with your customers, just like what I do at work being a restaurant manager, I have customers following me around for years where ever I go cause they just like me. I built my relationship with ALL my customers. The store owners should only hire those who will or train them to do such task. A friend of mine was setting up his first FW tank and I told him exactly what not to do since I had FW for years. He went into Fish Bowl and they told him it was ok to do this and that and was coming over to help him with his tank when I told him the opposite, he end up losing ALL his fish because of what they've told him and help him do, this was what they said to him afterwards, they were being pressured to sell! I really don't think that is the right answer, you can be pressured to sell, but you have to give accurate information before you sell otherwise your just hurting yourself. Like this incident, they just lost another potential long term customer who doesn't like online shopping. He was really angry at them and swears he would never go back there. Words of mouth travels, if friends of his hears this, they wouldn't want to go there either. So personally I think some of the shops are just hurting themselves and don't have anyone to blame but themselves. This is just my honest opinion about all of this....
Rendos
New member
The owners of at least three West TN LFS were there.
They were there to check things out and talk to reef keepers.
Kermit's Reef, Reef Down Under, and Below Sea Level owners were all there. All three told me that they will most likely attend again...maybe not as a vendor, but as fellow hobbyists.
They were there to check things out and talk to reef keepers.
Kermit's Reef, Reef Down Under, and Below Sea Level owners were all there. All three told me that they will most likely attend again...maybe not as a vendor, but as fellow hobbyists.
RCS
In Memoriam
Although I'm not an MTRC club member (I am in the ETRC and many other clubs), I feel the need to speak up here. I'm usually a staunch supporter of the LFS and having managed and worked for a few, understan quite a bit of the basics and background behind the thinking of some stores that they're losing business to the "local reef hobbyists".
First of all, let's be a little more precise here. The question asked was:
Your answer was not in reference to that question as far as I can tell. If I missed something please correct me.
My follow-up question to your rant would be: if you see the times are a-changin', why would you pass up a FREE opportunity to immerse yourself in a changing world? Did any of the LFS make more progress sitting on their laurels and not attending the swap? I doubt it...a few simple things brought with would have scored some income, not to mention some bonus points with the local folks who are out to destroy you.
The ONLY stores that fare poorly and then blame the people who likely support them the most are the ones who don't recognize that things are not the mom-and-pop way they were fifty years ago. To expect to run a business like it's the 70s and be successfull...well, the attitude displayed in the response is the outcome. Heaven forbid that maybe YOUR business doing poorly has anything to do with YOU. Nope, blame the customers, or the non-customers, which is even more lame and less to the point. Have you stepped back and looked at your market, at your coempetitors and actually figured out why you're doing poorly? Or is it simply easier to point the finger at the reef club?
A quick web search indicates the Nashville area has approximately 550,000 residents. You're telling me a local reef club of maybe 30-50 people, representing approximately 0.0009% of that population is killing your business? Even taking account there were about 200 people that showed up at the frag swap, that means you're failing miserably with the other 99.997% of the people in your area. How exactly do you even fathom that these are the people that are hurting your business?
Chris was right on with his post. Although I'd disagree with the "negative and antagonistic" comment and replace it with "whiny and childish". If you can't figure out a way to run your business in an area with a half-million people, the VAST majority of which are NOT reef club members, well, it's likely you'd be a better employee than employer.
First of all, let's be a little more precise here. The question asked was:
Your answer was not in reference to that question as far as I can tell. If I missed something please correct me.
My follow-up question to your rant would be: if you see the times are a-changin', why would you pass up a FREE opportunity to immerse yourself in a changing world? Did any of the LFS make more progress sitting on their laurels and not attending the swap? I doubt it...a few simple things brought with would have scored some income, not to mention some bonus points with the local folks who are out to destroy you.
The ONLY stores that fare poorly and then blame the people who likely support them the most are the ones who don't recognize that things are not the mom-and-pop way they were fifty years ago. To expect to run a business like it's the 70s and be successfull...well, the attitude displayed in the response is the outcome. Heaven forbid that maybe YOUR business doing poorly has anything to do with YOU. Nope, blame the customers, or the non-customers, which is even more lame and less to the point. Have you stepped back and looked at your market, at your coempetitors and actually figured out why you're doing poorly? Or is it simply easier to point the finger at the reef club?
A quick web search indicates the Nashville area has approximately 550,000 residents. You're telling me a local reef club of maybe 30-50 people, representing approximately 0.0009% of that population is killing your business? Even taking account there were about 200 people that showed up at the frag swap, that means you're failing miserably with the other 99.997% of the people in your area. How exactly do you even fathom that these are the people that are hurting your business?
Chris was right on with his post. Although I'd disagree with the "negative and antagonistic" comment and replace it with "whiny and childish". If you can't figure out a way to run your business in an area with a half-million people, the VAST majority of which are NOT reef club members, well, it's likely you'd be a better employee than employer.
RCS
In Memoriam
Your attitude belies the falseness of this statement. If you're doing so wonderfully, and have no problems, then why the harsh rhetoric? And let's be frank, your comments are strictly propaganda and really point at the truth rather than your above claim.
I don't hear Donald Trump compaining about other real estate moguls.
I don't hear Bill Gates complaining about other operating systems.
I don't hear John Grisham complaining about other authors.
Bottom line is that everything in every industry works together; everything is intertwined in one way or another. You can either accept that and work with it, or complain and fight against it. You'd already established (and I think we'd all agree) that the way the industry is now is different than it has been before, so why fight it rather than work with it?
crumbletop
New member
Just to throw in a data point re MTRC and the "demise" of the LFS. I'm new to this hobby and have learned about AC through the MTRC and its members. I also joined the MTRC in part to get the 10% discount for AC and plan to buy my livestock and tank there. So in my case, the MTRC has meant more business for AC from me...
RCS
In Memoriam
From my understanding, AC has been pretty supportive of the MTRC. I've only been to the store once, but I did buy a few small items when I was there. I also try and support the LFS in the Knoxville area as best I can. That said, hard goods are difficult to get at a comparable price locally. We used to have one store that would match online prices. I think they realized their income was going to be more attuned to livestock and had started to roll that way.
theop
Active member
I think having the reef club is good for the LFS, since it encourages people pursuing the hobby to upgrade and set up more tanks. If it were that big of a hinderance, why would AQ and EB give discounts and even host club meetings? What percentage of the total customer base of these stores are reef-keepers? I would bet less than 10%.
I would think that the pet "superstores" are more of a threat to the small LFS, and much more than a reef club could ever be.
Similar to how Blockbuster and Wal-Mart have put smaller competitors out of business, places like Petstmart, Petco, and Pet Supermarket can undercut the prices of the LFS. They sell tanks, fish, and supplies just like the LFS. I don't think they really carry much a serious reefer would want, but for all of the casual FW and SW hobbiests they are a place to get what you want locally and a little cheaper than a smaller store. What you don't get is good knowlegable advice, good service, or as healthy livestock.
If you care about your LFS, don't shop at the mega-stores.
I would think that the pet "superstores" are more of a threat to the small LFS, and much more than a reef club could ever be.
Similar to how Blockbuster and Wal-Mart have put smaller competitors out of business, places like Petstmart, Petco, and Pet Supermarket can undercut the prices of the LFS. They sell tanks, fish, and supplies just like the LFS. I don't think they really carry much a serious reefer would want, but for all of the casual FW and SW hobbiests they are a place to get what you want locally and a little cheaper than a smaller store. What you don't get is good knowlegable advice, good service, or as healthy livestock.
If you care about your LFS, don't shop at the mega-stores.
