Wonder how high this one will go?

[surfnvb7]

I want something uncommon... show me a SUPER ZOO?

thats the whole point doc. what is something "uncommon", or "rare", or "LE"? everyone has a different opinion on this definition.

to some people, rare or uncommon is anything they dont have. to others, its anything they haven't seen before. to some others, it could be anything that a person doesn't have in their area.

a person could post a pic of a zoa they've had in their tank, and never seen a pic of before and say its "rare" b/c they have the only colony known. but then 5 others across the country post with pics of the same thing, or a similar morph and say its been around for years...

so who is justifiably right when they say theirs is "rare" or "uncommon"? .........no one IMO, its a completely biased term that doesnt carry any weight to it, esspecially when there is a known history of people who use the term on ebay, and other marketing venues for the sole purposes of misleading people who don't use enough common sense, or themselves don't know any better.

lets ask more specific questions.....like......"i want to see all your blue zoa morphs", or...."i want to see all your zoas that have 5 or more colors in them". then leave it up to the individual looking at the picture to see if its worth putting out $X for.

an honest and informed seller, would provide pics under flash and/or 10k, as well as actinic, and not use vocabulary terms that *could* be deemed as "misleading" by others. let the buyers interpret the pictures as they see them, and pay for what they see....not what they are told.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Very well put Coralnuts. I agree,Doc, if you've really blown that much money chasing down the "rare" zoa's, I actually feel sorry for you.

As others have said, buy them if you like them, not because of how much you "Think" you can frag them up and make off of them. That way you don't perpetuate the "rare" syndrom that has become a thorn in the side of this "HOBBY".


You too surfnvb7.


If the corals are indeed rare, then why not share them with fellow reefers so that they can be propagated and that way if your colonie dies for some reason, you will have a way to get some back. Also by doing this, you can keep some of teh "rare" corals in the ocean. Or maybe one day repopulate the ocea with the "rare" corals.

As far as I know, there is only one "rare" coral. GARF had one and propagated it out among the community. When it was found out that the coral no longer was alive in the coean, they took it upon themselves to find the strain of that coral, thru DNA testing, to try and repopulate it in the ocean. I don't think any of our zoas have reached that status yet.

 

[ReefDoctorMicromussas]

Firstly, all of your inputs are valid and well worded...

I sell my corals on EBAY to support my reef habit.. abit like a crack habit... when I buy something I usually frag off 1/2 and sell it to cover the cost of originally buying it... then I can buy more... With reguard to shareing and reef propagation please read the opening mission statement @ keepers of the reef as I wrote it and believe it... most all of my frags exist in my local members homes free of charge...(especially my brothers)And I have many of thiers in my tank also.

The gentleman who posted the "Rare" definition was right on target

3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT

The definition that Coral Nuts tries to imply is that RARE is synomonous with the word EXTINCT there are many RARE flora and fauna that do not require the presence of police and greenpeace to own and enjoy.... that is just not the case... the most coherrent definition from perspective is surfs... "they may in fact look VERY rare for someone who lives an hour or two from the nearest LFS or club"..."everyone has a definition of RARE or LE, depending on the area"

Weather you like my Galaxy blues or not... they are not in your tank...(I know, I know you dont want them there) nor are they any where that I have seen until I purchased them... so being that the term rare is realative and based upon perspective I stand by the title RARE and further grant I believe the Zoa that I see on ZOAID for the most part are rare.... I understand the cliche imposed by the use of the word RARE....

 

[rhoodhouse]

My rare Super Zoo's

My rare Super Zoo's

Here are mine and I do think they all are Super Zoo's

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6679844#post6679844 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by doctor64776
The gentleman who posted the "Rare" definition was right on target

3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT

That would be me but apperantly you read it diffeent than I. Rare as in seldom seen. The majority of your corals are not seldom seen. They are on ZoaID as a lot of people have them. That means they are not rare as they are common, by the defination above, taken from the websters dictonary.

Granted you may have a coral or two that is seldom seen. If that IS the case, and you beleive them to be rare, the follow your other statement that's on your website, as well as this one and others, and propagate them out so that we may conserve the other "rare" ones still in the ocean.

 

[surfnvb7]

so being that the term rare is realative and based upon perspective I stand by the title RARE and further grant I believe the Zoa that I see on ZOAID for the most part are rare.... I understand the cliche imposed by the use of the word RARE....

so are you in fact, saying that ANY zoa, posted on zoaid is in fact "rare" in your viewpoint.... thus, any zoa that has been given a name (by zoaID, or you) is in fact "rare" in your viewpoint...correct?

thus...going back to one of our original problems with how ZoaID uses names...who's the zoanthid god? or an "expert" enough to say what zoas are named (thus inducing a "rare" definition in some viewpoints)? do we have a high panel of "experts" who vote which submitted zoa pics are published, and under which name?

I believe I remember whodah saying that he would post ANY zoa pictures that are submitted to him ("rare" or not). and i remember him saying that he does not denote just b/c it has a name that it is in fact "rare".

so would it be logical to suggest that your interpretation of the purposes of ZoaID are in fact, not conducive of what the creator of ZoaID suggests the site is for? and thus, ANY zoa posted on zoaid (which according to whoda, can be ANY zoa) is in fact "rare" in your definition?? I believe THIS question is closer to the purpose that was originally intended of this thread than anything else mentioned...

"I believe the Zoa that I see on ZOAID for the most part are rare" what does that mean exactly.....for all opinions that are the same as yours you will accept? all those opinions that do not agree with yours are incorrect?

i'm not attacking you doc, but your logic seems to suggest alot of "hypocritical" or "misnomer" arguements/thinking. you say one thing, but you intend an opposite meaning in your examples that you provide. it leaves your points to be a bit confusing to understand...

lastly...I'd like to leave a quote from someone who was very well respected here on RC, for everyone here debating this to think about for a bit. "I would be very leary of anyone who calls themselves an "expert" on anything, including myself" - Dr. Ron

 

[tomenugen]

Wow. It is nice to see that your name can be drag through the dirt not once but over and over again. If RC members are in disagreement over words such as "rare", they should contact Webster Dictionary. The answer to this constant nagging is simple. If you don't like what someone is selling or what you are seeing, move on. Nobody likes a snitch or a rent a cop, so just let it be. If we have some Howard Stern listeners on here, you will understand this. Doc=Howard Stern and BlownChevy and CoralNuts=FCC. I don't know any of the people bickering, but this is a public forum. Please keep your rambling to private message. BTW, nice pics Rhoodhouse, rare or not.

 

[ReefDoctorMicromussas]

Rhood Hoohhaaa those pics are so beautiful! I also LOVE the acintic supplementation it really highlights the vividity of the naturally occuring colors... Kudos

My post was meant to infer what so many people have already stated in one way or another... There should be no confusion..

Rare by literal definition is:
3 : seldom occurring or found : UNCOMMON
synonym see CHOICE, INFREQUENT

Rare by the Way most of us have agreed to disagree is that it is via PERSPECTIVE... If you cant get it or have it easily then it is rare..

I still have yet to see anyone post thier own private pic of either Galaxy Blues or Daytrippers


THEREFORE/THUS/Hiterto ect. ect .... THE zoa Posted on ZOAID are in my own private and personal freedom perspective RARE and COLLECTABLE ZOA... I did originally think that the Zoa on ZOAID were chosen by the reef gods... I do know differently now but still believe them to be RARE

 

[Azurel]

There can be a use for the term "rare" in the hobby to describe morphs and or corals that are seldom seen in distribution within the hobby. "Rare" doesn't have to mean that it exists minimally in the ocean and there for not collected. The name does not denote a rarity but the morph, I disagree with you Coralnuts on the fact that PPEs, PHE's for that matter are all over the hobby or 80%-90% of people here even have them, that's not to say they couldn't get them maybe but, the price or the things for a fair trade are a little higher to get them as opposed to some of the other color morphs.
"Rare" in this hobby means Limited supply or seldom seen. I think both side of the issue have taken the word to be to literal as it pertains to the hobby. Steve Tyree corals are LE for the fact that most of them are extremely hard to get or seldom seen, thus they can be considered "rare" with in the hobby, but once they get distributed and those that have them continue with the distribution and trading then they no longer are "rare". There are quite a few zoa morphs on Zoaid.com that are seldom seen on here or in the LFS, that doesn't make them "rare" in the ocean but within the hobby because of lack of distribution. I think he only threat to the use of the word "rare" is the newbies or those that are new to the hobby looking for something they think is rare or tricked into thinking something is rare. I do agree though that there is a lot of use of the word "rare" on EBay for things that are quite common with in the hobby.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Daytrippers hu. Is the main color pink?

If so, let me turn off my MH lights, just atinic's on, and I'll get you a pic of mine. I beleive they are the same as yours and I got them in a thermos frag swap. NOT from you.

 

[Azurel]

Blown if you look at his pics they are not in atinics only lights. You can tell this by looking at the objects around the colony which is not deeply bathed in blue. So if the light of each zoa is not the same then you can't make a real comparison.

 

[ReefDoctorMicromussas]

It is irratating that I respect all of the corals you have shown me... I state the emotion and feeling that they give me when I look upon them... And yet with or without Flash or acintics many continue to degrade my pieces.... Its not nice or polite i am sorry to hear my collection is so common I not am regularly here enough to feel I am losing something to leave... I am becoming bored and frustrated with this...... Many (NOT ALL) of you concede no where... Your ZOOS are the only ones that are nice... well thats untrue and not very nice... (The majority) OF This community is niether friendly nor welcoming... It is obvious that I am not wanted here and really the thread has continued long enough... Come to keepers of the reef ... we are a micro community in comparison to this but we are nice, helpful and kind... even the most base of sealife is beautiful to me and further more RARE... you cannot go outside and pick it from a tree it must be harvested by a little swimming boy, shipped from some far away island, survive the rigors of seasoning tanks in a port, be shipped and or flown just to make it to my tank. My input is useless here... I am an impotent guest in your world

WHODA ... I received my calendar today and it is very nice... You should all go get one and support a worthy cause. I would LOVE to have the very RARE! zoos in that calendar wow!

I am excited to have had the opportunity to meet each of you.
With that I bid you all happiness and bountiful tanks I will see you in another forum or through another RC thread but here no longer.

PEACE

 

[CoralNutz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6680256#post6680256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tomenugen
Wow. It is nice to see that your name can be drag through the dirt not once but over and over again. If RC members are in disagreement over words such as "rare", they should contact Webster Dictionary. The answer to this constant nagging is simple. If you don't like what someone is selling or what you are seeing, move on. Nobody likes a snitch or a rent a cop, so just let it be. If we have some Howard Stern listeners on here, you will understand this. Doc=Howard Stern and BlownChevy and CoralNuts=FCC. I don't know any of the people bickering, but this is a public forum. Please keep your rambling to private message. BTW, nice pics Rhoodhouse, rare or not.

Tom, you and Doc must be drinking the same cool-aide... If I am the one that is like the FCC, than why is it you two want to Censor ME? I never said he couldn't do that... I pointed it out on here becuase some of us more sane people get a chuckle from time to time seeing what the chuckleheads on eBay are doing?

(Oh yeah tom... It's the 8th page and you still haven't figured out this has nothing to do with paying large sums of money for corals, maybe you want to read the threads before you post in them :lol: )

So isn't it YOU that's likw the FCC trying to tell me what I can and can't say? I never said, OMG, this guy cannot do this... I simply said hey, wonder how this one will go now that he's thrown in the misleading zoaid link....

I agree with DOC that rare is a matter or perspective... The point is that I am trying to make is that NONE of the zoas are rare. Not that somehow mine are and yours aren't.


I too will agree that this is pretty silly that it's gone on to almost the 9th page... I am sure it will go there too, cause doc can't just leave well enough alone... I am sure he will keep jabbing and prodding me even after I have pretty much conceded.... I have told you, I don't agree with your "marketing" tactics. I personally think you are NOT a good thing for the hobby.... I have also agreed that me starting this thread and pointing out the doc by name probably wasn't the best move. Do I think it was unethical to do so? Not a chance... The FCC up there might though :lol:

I agree that some of your zoas are nice. Just not what I would consider rare or anything that special... You do, that's great.

 

[surfnvb7]

THEREFORE/THUS/Hiterto ect. ect .... THE zoa Posted on ZOAID are in my own private and personal freedom perspective RARE and COLLECTABLE ZOA... I did originally think that the Zoa on ZOAID were chosen by the reef gods... I do know differently now but still believe them to be RARE

nicely stated doc...i think we are finally getting somewhere...

just to clarify....one last time...you are indeed agreeing that your views of the purpose of ZoaID are in fact DIFFERENT, than what whoda said was/are intended for the site then? correct? if so, thats your own opinion, which you are entitled to so no one can blast you for that...

if so, by linking ZoaID in your auction, do you agree that your intentions of listing something as "rare" COULD (intentionally or unintentionally) therefore be misconstrued with the purpose of ZoaID, which does NOT denote something as "rare" or not?

regardless of the way you answer this...the ultimate debate resides in the court of ZoaID, and the purpose of the site seen by the creator vs. the people that have used it.........

as whoda already took care of the part in which he wanted you to withdraw the use of the ZoaID site in your auctions, which I believe you honestly would if you could after the auction started.

this was the whole point of one of the original "arguements", whether zoaID (and thus naming a zoa) in fact imposes a certain rarity on it? i would rather see whoda in fact counter these problems with actual implementations to the site (whether they be coding to prevent linking, or written disclaimers, or a change in the contruction/presentation of the site) then a continued fued with doc, in which everyone is expressing their PERSONAL opinions, and thus moving the debate in no particular direction, b/c again...it is mostly in the opinion of the reader and/or writer.

doc, people are jumping on you, b/c of the coincidental timing of you posting YOUR "rare" zoas on zoaID, and then turning around and linking them for purposes of an auction which you listed as "rare". people are upset at you, b/c this is NOT what whoda said the site is intended for. and the last thing we want to see is everyone copying your tactics (whether some say is clever marketing or dishonest marketing) to make an extra buck on our hobby, and thus causing a huge inflation of prices and "named zoanthids" becoming the next yearly CRAZE.

i say, we move on from the differences b/w docs and others opinions (colors, "rarity", lighting etc.) ...and BACK on to the more important topic, which is WHY has zoaID caused people to misuse the information (intentionally or unintionally) it has provided for us??

 

[awcurl]

Hey Doctor, I sent you a PM.

 

[Reef Junkie]

I just want to chime in one last time, I think.:wildone:

Here is the REAL definition of rare...

This coral was obtained around 15 years ago when collecting rock from the reef in the Carribean was still allowed. This is yet identified and absolutely beautiful coral. Eat your hearts out!:lmao:
You will not find this in stores, order now, supplies are limited.

 

[Chemguy85]

that is admazing looking reef junkie.
"You will not find this in stores, order now, supplies are limited."

That is great
:rollface:

 

[mummra100769]

it sounds like tomenugen comes from a bb we are not allowed to speak of. being a snitch and a rat i can say that coralnutz is just looking out for his fellow reefers.

good job man and i like how your pics are not bathed in blue light. btw i have just about every one of those morphs along with the day trippers. matter of fact i have like 3 different morphs of the daytrippers.

 

[21Reefman]

You must be a Super Reefer!

You must be a Super Reefer!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6664569#post6664569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef Junkie


This is not Ebay. Nor is this site a democracy.
Play by our rules or otherwise you will quickly find yourself on the receiving end of negative public backlash on RC.

Welcome to the boards and leave your marketing rhetoric at the door. You'll have you a$$ handed back to you if you use it here.

Cheers,
Bill

Wow, whata warm welcome Get off the high horse dude!

And to Coral nuts about the claim that most of the opinions in the thread frown on the Doc's practices: Go READ THE THREAD! It's only about 4 of you in the MINORITY that have kept up the mudslinging.

The sqeaky mouse only hears himself! Stop beating the dead horse! It was you coral nuts, who revealed the pent up anger with the cheap $20 comment.

If you don't want to attract any notoriety and distinction for your zoa's then the whole ZOAID.com is a bad idea. The whole thing is HYPE; The Resiprocity...bla,bla YOU (the site) Want to be known as the authority of zoas.
Wether they are pretty or brown, rare or common,
all the like are listed,
they are still listed and celebrated!! Which does in itself add to their collectabilty, interest, and thus VALUE , or at least what people are willing to pay.
SO BLAME WHODA AND ANYONE WHO THOUGHT IT WAS COOL TO NAME AND POST THEIR SUPER ZOA"S, FOR THE WHOLE ZOA INFLATION SCANDAL!! (whodah I love the site, keep it up. I'm being devils advocate. What if you had standards or a "RARE" classification("hard to come by" for coral (bustn')nutz))

What is to stop joe shmoe from seeing his morph of zoa on zoaid, and learning that they have a name and that they are on the internet posted amongst some of the coolest (and photoshoped) zoa's he's ever seen.
He then starts calling them the HYPED-UP name and selling them on ebay, ........ He did not post the pics to zoaid yet still ends up benefitting from it's existance. I don't think he will see how any mention of, how his zoa's were found listed on zoaid.com is wrong. Frankly niether do I! He did not post them to market them. They were already there!! By zoaid's very exsistance!!

I found the same picture of the (overpriced)zoa's I bought from some guy on zoaid,(the picture that he used to sell them to me.) The picture is SSOOOO photoshoped, even under heavy actinics the zoa's aren't close to being as bright as his pic. Now, I don't have, and could not produce, a photo this far from the actual color but, thanks to zoaid I can use the same missleading photo that he showed me, because the picture is on the site.....Not exactly ethical, 2 wrongs don't make a right, yet zoaid is making it all possable.

After all if we can't talk about the zoa's listed there when we buy/sell/trade as a tool to see eachothers stock, and organize the hobby, and get us all on the same page, then it may as well be some toy, only to be used by some elite(meaning selective in membership) little boys club.

Reef junkie and coral nuts will run it, so none of us can mess it up!!

 

[21Reefman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6680869#post6680869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
9th page... I am sure it will go there too, cause doc can't just leave well enough alone... I am sure he will keep jabbing and prodding me even after I have pretty much conceded.... I have told you, I don't agree with your "marketing" tactics. I personally think you are NOT a good thing for the hobby.... .

CHILDISH!!! You are so full of HOT AIR, and underhanded JABS!!

I think YOU, are BAD FOR THE HOBBY