Wooden External Overflow Box?

er ok i didnt see the sketches load earlier. why are you even bothering with the extra box in the rear? why not just use street 90's inside the black overflow in the tank, and run the drains outside down just like you plan too?

Thanks, for your question, DevilMan. You are right. Dealing with the external overflow box is a bother. The answer simply is that, once upon a time, I built two tanks, using the BeanAnimal system which used only an internal overflow box, as you describe. Life was so much easier for those tanks--no hassles of sending water to an external overflow box.

However, after running those tanks for about two years, I tired of the unsightly, protruding profile of the internal overflow box, which extended out four inches from the back wall. It's all just aesthetics, but I wanted to see if I could push that overflow box backwards a little, to reduce its obtrusiveness. Thus, on this new build, I am able to do so by using an external overflow box and an internal overflow-box.

The bulky PVC-elbows will be in the external box, hidden by the black wall of the tank. The internal overflow box you see in the drawing (the black one) is only 2.5" deep, front to back. Such a flat profile will not accommodate street elbows inside the internal overflow box. However, the whole point is to make the internal overflow less noticeable. By designing a flatter profile and relocating the PVC elbows from the internal overflow box to the external overflow-box, I accomplish this goal.

But again, you nailed it on the head: the external overflow box is proving to be a bit of a hassle. I just hope in the end, it will be worth it, with a more streamlined, "invisible" look.

Thanks.
 
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Do you have a reef club? Someone near you may be able to help make it out of glass. Its infinitely easier to do and no need to epoxy stuff and worry about water damage etc.
 
Do you have a reef club? Someone near you may be able to help make it out of glass. Its infinitely easier to do and no need to epoxy stuff and worry about water damage etc.

Thanks for your question, UserName. I am not aware of a reef club in my local area. Your point brings us full circle, back to the issue that was first raised in this thread. There is no doubt that using glass would reduce concerns about water damage, as glass is waterproof. However, for me, the advantage of using glass seems to end there. For all the reasons already stated, well-cut, well-edged, and well-drilled glass has been hard to obtain in my geographical area. Also glass is not easy to work with, especially for someone of my skill-level. I have to be honest about these facts. If they were not true, I would not have encountered as many setbacks and delays as I have encountered. I'm all for DIY, but DIY should be fun.

Working with an external, overflow glass box has not been fun. For all my efforts, I at least owe it to myself to see if working with wood is a viable alternative, in this water-proof setting. It might turn out that, no matter what I do, fabricating an external overflow box is no fun. Time will tell.

But for now, and for me, using glass does is not infinitely easer to do. The advantage of using wood lies in its comparative ease in being readily obtained, being cut, being drilled, being assembled, and being adhered. Wood is also more forgiving. If you accidentally bump or drop a panel of the wood in the fabrication of a wood box, it won't break, like glass will. If your cut is slightly off, you can go back to the saw and fix it, or sand it. The disadvantages of using wood lie in the challenge in making a wood box waterproof and obtaining the epoxy-paint to do so. A wood box is made waterproof by gluing, painting, and siliconing it well. That seems pretty easy to do. While the epoxy paint is somewhat expensive, money is less a concern for me than the value of my time. For a DIY project, I have more of one and less of the other. Each person will be different, in this regard.

For me, I'm going with wood. For now. Thanks.
 
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ok. i was trying to find a picture of a bean animal set up that kinda shows what i was trying to explain but i failed. i did however come up with this terrible vid that helps show what i am trying to say you could do in theory (not exactly though but you get the idea)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOEDVBiwxT0


what size are those bulkheads for the pass through from inside to outside overflow box? 1.5" or so. a street elbow of those sizes will fit in that 2.5" of space in the inside overflow box. you can even trim the slip part just a little shorter to lessen the amount of space they need to slide into the bulkhead. the reason i say all this is to simplify all of what you have going on. seems like a lot of junctions.

either way hopefully you will be able to set your tank up soon enough! good luck with it!
 
ok. i was trying to find a picture of a bean animal set up that kinda shows what i was trying to explain but i failed. i did however come up with this terrible vid that helps show what i am trying to say you could do in theory (not exactly though but you get the idea)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOEDVBiwxT0


what size are those bulkheads for the pass through from inside to outside overflow box? 1.5" or so. a street elbow of those sizes will fit in that 2.5" of space in the inside overflow box. you can even trim the slip part just a little shorter to lessen the amount of space they need to slide into the bulkhead. the reason i say all this is to simplify all of what you have going on. seems like a lot of junctions.

either way hopefully you will be able to set your tank up soon enough! good luck with it!


Thanks, DevilMan. Appreciate it.
 
Black Epoxy Paint Received and Tested Gorilla Glue on Scrap Wood

Black Epoxy Paint Received and Tested Gorilla Glue on Scrap Wood

STATUS UPDATE: The epoxy paint arrived today via Fedex. Recall that I will be using Aquatic Eco-Systems, 2-part epoxy paint, Black No. 12916. It consists of:
  • a 96-fluid-ounce can of epoxy paint; and
  • a 24-fluid-ounce can of activator.
I also purchased marine-grade plywood, 3/4" thick, to build the box out of. With the excess wood, I will use it in the inside floor of my aquarium stand, it will be painted with Rustoleum paint, and I hope that the bottom panel will be water-resistant, for the occasional splashes and spills. I intend to get the external, wood overflow-box built tomorrow, after cutting the five panels, as follows:
  • Back Panel: drill out the holes to match the five (5) bulkhead holes of the back wall of the aquarium;
  • Floor Panel: drill out the four holes, three for the BeanAnimal System drain lines, and one for the return line from the external pump below;
  • Fasten Panels: fasten the box panels together with Gorilla Glue and screws, pilot-hole drilled every 2 inches on center line, along joining sections;
  • Paint: paint the wood overflow-box[/U] with the waterproof epoxy-paint, by next weekend; and
  • Silcone: apply the silicone in all the seams, by next weekend.
Test Run of Wood Gluing
Tonight I gave the wood-working a test-run. I have never used Gorilla Glue before, and I heard how it expands 2-3 the volume used, once cured (1-2 hours). So I wanted to practice first on two pieces of scrap plywood, before trying it on the marine-grade plywood tomorrow. I wanted to get the hang of not putting too much glue on, as one is warned not to do.

The Gorilla Glue was straightforwardly easy to work with, and the cleanup of the glue's "squeeze out" was done easily with a dry paper towel. For those who haven't used Gorilla Glue before, imagine squeezing pancake syrup on wood, from a squeeze bottle. That is the width of the "bead" of glue, its color, and its consistency, before it expands. I laid down only one, single bead of glue along the length. Then, I spread that bead of pancake-syrup-like glue flat and evenly within the 3/4" margin of where the wood will be joined, with a flat stick. To guide me in the spreading of the glue, I drew a straight line with a pencil, demarcating the boundary of area that had to be glued. (See picture.)

Then, I assembled the pieces, after letting the glue expose to the air 4-5 minutes, per instructions. Pre-drilling pilot holes for the screws, placed every two inches on the center line of the joint margin, was also a breeze. If this works, it will definitely be easier to fabricate out of wood, as compared to glass. However, we'll see if it is, and remains, waterproof. According to plywood-aquarium builders, it works quite well. Time will tell. Knock on wood.

In the meantime, all advice, comments, and thoughts are welcome.

Pictures:

1. The Expoxy Paint and Activator:

IMG_20130323_182800_158_zps795db6b8.jpg


2. The practice-run of the gluing process on scrap wood, using screws and Gorilla Glue.

A. Outside Shot of with Screws:

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B. Inside Shot of Seam with Glue Only:

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Wood Panels Cut + Back Panel Drilled x 5 Holes

Wood Panels Cut + Back Panel Drilled x 5 Holes

STATUS UPDATE:

Today, I cut all five wood panels to the external overflow-box. As well, I drilled the five holes in the back panel, through which the tank bulkheads protrude. Here are pictures. I welcome your questions, comments, and suggestions.

1. Backside Shot: the holes in the backside panel are fitted snugly with the bulkheads from the aquarium. Once this backside panel is assembled to the rest of the external overflow-box, the water will flow from the internal overflow-box through the bulkheads, to the external overflow box.

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2. Internal Overflow Box Looking at Back Panel of External Overflow-Box: Same as before, but looking from the opposite view.

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3. The Other Panels: Here are the other wood panels of the overflow box after being cut, standling loosely together, not yet glued.

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STATUS UPDATE:

The wooden overflow panels have been cut, bored for bulkhead fittings, and dry-fitted into place with screws. This assures proper alignment and predrilling pilot holes prevents wood from splitting. So far all goes well.

Next step: disassemble dry-fitted panels, then glue and re-screw panels for final assembly. Then the waterproofing begins, first with the epoxy paint, then with silicone sealant in the seams.

Here are two pictures of the dry-fitted box, with screws in place. Comments, advice, and questions welcomed. Thanks.

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IMG_20130402_054210_541_zps846b516c.jpg
 
Instead of silicone in the seams, you should do a corner bead of epoxy in each corner. Is requires standing the box on a 45 degree angle to do each corner individually, but its a better method as the epoxy to epoxy bond will be much better then the epoxy to silicone.
 
Instead of silicone in the seams, you should do a corner bead of epoxy in each corner. Is requires standing the box on a 45 degree angle to do each corner individually, but its a better method as the epoxy to epoxy bond will be much better then the epoxy to silicone.

Hi, UserName:

Thanks for your suggestion. Question, though: the corner bead of epoxy that you are talking about here is what product, specifically? Are you referring to the epoxy-paint, itself or another product? Please advise. Thanks.
 
Whatever epoxy you are using to seal the wood. Use the same epoxy and pour it into the corner so it fills it. If it is a waterproof epoxy, then it will bond to itself and completely fill the corner of the box. You just need to keep the box on edge while each one dries individually.
 
Whatever epoxy you are using to seal the wood. Use the same epoxy and pour it into the corner so it fills it. If it is a waterproof epoxy, then it will bond to itself and completely fill the corner of the box. You just need to keep the box on edge while each one dries individually.

Wow. Very cool idea. How thick of a "bead" are we talking about here by means of this method of pouring? One-Eighth of an inch (1/8")? Also, I imagine that since the box will be on its angled-edge, while each seam-corner dries, I take it that it is not necessary (or possible) to have the final "bead" here be a continuous bead, as is done with silicone on the "inside pockets" of a glass overflow box?

Do you have any stories about having used this method before? They would be quite elightening, if not humourous (the image of standing a box on its edge seems funny, indeed).

Thanks.
 
There are two schools of thought when it comes to lining wood tanks with epoxy - pour vs paint.

The corner fillet is a common practice when wood tanks are lined with epoxy using the pour method. Typically the pour method is done with a plain laminating epoxy (west systems, etc), as opposed to what you're using, which is essentially an epoxy paint. As the name implies, that sort of product is typically painted on in several coats to seal the wood. You could definitely pour corner fillets; whether or not you really need or want to is up for debate. I poured fillets in my tank. This post from my build thread shows the tank propped at 45 degrees to allow the pour:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16545425&postcount=164

Have you done any work with epoxy before? It's really not hard but there are definitely tricks. Here's a post from my thread where I gave some details on the pour method in general:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16316363#post16316363

Either way, I would definitely NOT try to caulk or seal the corners with silicone. If I were in your shoes I would go ahead and paint the box inside and out with enough coats to make you feel safe that it's waterproof, and call it a day. If you feel like the seams are still suspect even after several coats, you can pour some fillets. Be sure to seal the bulkhead holes well. Also keep an eye out for any small voids in the inner plys that show along the edges of any of the pieces - it can be REALLY hard to seal them well. What I would suggest if there are any voids present is using a syringe (not a needle syringe, a blunt one like you get with test kits) to fill it with as much epoxy as you can. Then once it's cured, mix some epoxy with a small amount of filler (use sawdust if you don't have any "real" epoxy filler, i.e. microbubbles) and work the paste into the hole.
 
There are two schools of thought when it comes to lining wood tanks with epoxy - pour vs paint.

The corner fillet is a common practice when wood tanks are lined with epoxy using the pour method. Typically the pour method is done with a plain laminating epoxy (west systems, etc), as opposed to what you're using, which is essentially an epoxy paint. As the name implies, that sort of product is typically painted on in several coats to seal the wood. You could definitely pour corner fillets; whether or not you really need or want to is up for debate. I poured fillets in my tank. This post from my build thread shows the tank propped at 45 degrees to allow the pour:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16545425&postcount=164

Have you done any work with epoxy before? It's really not hard but there are definitely tricks. Here's a post from my thread where I gave some details on the pour method in general:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16316363#post16316363

Either way, I would definitely NOT try to caulk or seal the corners with silicone. If I were in your shoes I would go ahead and paint the box inside and out with enough coats to make you feel safe that it's waterproof, and call it a day. If you feel like the seams are still suspect even after several coats, you can pour some fillets. Be sure to seal the bulkhead holes well. Also keep an eye out for any small voids in the inner plys that show along the edges of any of the pieces - it can be REALLY hard to seal them well. What I would suggest if there are any voids present is using a syringe (not a needle syringe, a blunt one like you get with test kits) to fill it with as much epoxy as you can. Then once it's cured, mix some epoxy with a small amount of filler (use sawdust if you don't have any "real" epoxy filler, i.e. microbubbles) and work the paste into the hole.

Ha, you beat me to the punch. :D

Wow, great stuff. Thanks. I'll check it all out. Appreciate it.
 
STATUS UPDATE: Box Glued and Srewed and Setting

STATUS UPDATE: Box Glued and Srewed and Setting

STATUS UPDATE:

This morning, I disassembled the dry-fitted box that was screwed together, but not glued. Recall that the box was dry-fitted with screws as a test-run, to ensure all panels would align and could be screwed, without missing holes or splitting the wood. Today's wooden overflow-box is actually the second box I made. My first wooden overflow-box, made last weekend, failed miserably. It failed because I did not dry-fit all panels together in a test run. My mistake there may help others avoid similar mistakes in the future. Thus, I will briefly touch upon my first, failed overflow-box, before I discuss my second overflow-box, which is a success, so far.

A. First Wooden Overflow-Box: A Failure

Last weekend, I made my first wooden overflow box, but it failed. Had I done a dry-fitting of the box, with screws fully engaged, it would not have failed. However, the screws were never fully engaged in a test fitting because the pilot holes were not drilled through both pieces of wood.

Instead, I drilled pilot holes through the floor panel, but not through the wall panels (admittedly, a bonehead move). At the time, my concern in drilling pilot holes through both pieces of wood was that doing so would make it too hard to realign the holes for screwing later, through a film of glue. However, such a fear was completely unfounded, as confirmed by today's successful box: realigning the pilot holes in the wall and floor panels, for screwing, is quite easy--even through a film of glue.

In the first box, I began the gluing and screwing process without having pilot holes drilled all the way from the floor panel through the complete depth of the wall panels. Man, I ran into a lot of problems there: split plywood edges, screws not going in straightly into the wall panels and then the stripping of the screw heads from over-cranking, all of which caused some panels to become mis-aligned. It was one, big, depressing experience. That is why last week's box is now known as the "test box." :)

B. Second Wooden Overflow-Box: A Success (So Far)

Okay, back to the second, successful overflow box.

So I removed all the dry-fitted panels, by unscrewing all 34 floor-screws and 6 wall-screws of the box. Next, I lightly "banged" the wood panels on a flat surface to empty out all remaining sawdust deposited in the holes. I was very surprised at how much dust still remained in the holes, even after previously removing a lot of it (see picture below). Tapping out the sawdust here, further reduced the risk of the plywood splitting at its ends.

Next, I taped the panels with masking tape, so as to receive the bulk of the "squeeze-out." Next, I assembled the panels.

1. A note about assembling the panels:​

I previously stated earlier in this thread (at Post No. 22, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21285618&postcount=22) that the method recommended by Garf.org was to lay down a single bead of glue on all four sides of the bottom panel at one time. However, that method is ill-advised, if you are using Gorilla Glue. Garf.Org was using Resorcinol Glue, which might have a longer "open-time," than Gorilla Glue. (Or the people at Garf.Org are just much better at assembling the panels than I am, going much faster than I can go.) At any rate, my experience has shown me that Gorilla Glue does not allow one sufficient time to carefully place all of the wall panels to the bottom panel, before the glue starts to cure.

When making last week's failed box, I used that recommended method. I poured glue at all four edges of the floor panel, expecting that I could adhere the four wall panels in sufficient time. Nothing is gained by such a method, but much can be lost. I found myself rushing to place the wall panels on the glue that was applied to the floor panel. Rushing is not good.

So, today, I disregarded that advice and worked more slowly. Instead, I laid down glue on the floor panel for one wall panel only. Once completed, I repeated that process for each successive wall. By gluing only one panel at a time, I had plenty of time to glue and screw each wall panel to the floor panel before the glue began to cure. I highly recommend this piecemeal method for peace of mind; my first, failed box was very crude, but my second box came out very smoothly. As well, adhering just one panel at a time allows you to recover from mistakes--and no matter how good of a wood-worker you are, you might make a mistake.

For example, today, I laid down the glue for the assembly of the first wall panel. I placed it in the correct position, by lining up the screw hole of the floor panel with the screw hole of the wall panel, according to a pencil marking on each piece. Guess what? I totally screwed up: I completely forgot to moisten the wood with water, which is required to activate the bonding agents in Gorilla Glue. At first I was alarmed: "Oh, man--this wood is ruined!" But then I realized that I still had time to correct the mistake. The glue had not yet been activated, so fixing this problem was easy enough to do. I unscrewed the wall panel from the floor panel and quickly moistened the wall panel. Then laid a new bead of glue down on the floor panel and reassembled the two panels without a hitch. Had the original glue been laid down for all four walls, I simply would not have had enough time to fix the problem; the glue would have begun to dry at the other three wall-panel locations, as time was ticking for that glue there. I would have ruined the floor panel, requiring a re-do.

Anyhow, the second box came out very well, as I adhered all four wall panels, one at a time, gluing and screwing each one into place. The box is drying now. My next step is to paint the box with the epoxy paint, which I will tackle tomorrow. I think I will do a test painting of the "test box," since I have one to use, and since I have never used epoxy paint before. In the meantime, I want to give the glue 24 hours to completely cure. Then I will sand off the dried "squeeze-out," which is the recommended method for polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue).

I welcome your thoughts, advice, and comments. Thank you.

2. Pictures:

Here are some pictures:

PICTURE 1: The sawdust that was tapped out of the holes, before glue was applied. (This picture is out of focus, but see the faint piles of sawdust on the blue tape):

IMG_20130406_101635_096_zpsbfa21c79.jpg


PICTURE 2: How the wall panel will slide up under the glued bottom panel, when glued. Note that the holes for the stainless-steel screws pictured here are countersunk and are set apart every three inches. My first, failed "test box" did not countersink the screws, causing a rougher floor and potential problems sealing the surface to make it waterproof. As well, the first "test box" set the screws apart every two inches, which produced too many screws, or so it seemed for such a small box.

IMG_20130406_103154_666_zps941ddf47.jpg


PICTURE 3: The overflow box, after glued and screwed, and now curing. The box panels fit cleanly and are well aligned.

IMG_20130406_125202_220_zpsccd89dba.jpg


PICTURES 4-5: Other angles of the box, glued and screwed and curing.

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IMG_20130406_125219_680_zps71666a6f.jpg
 
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Status update: First coat of epoxy paint applied to 5 of 8 panels of the overflow box

Status update: First coat of epoxy paint applied to 5 of 8 panels of the overflow box

STATUS UPDATE:

This morning, I scraped off the dried, Gorilla-Glue "squeeze-out" on the wood overflow-box. Not difficult at all. Then I sanded the box down thoroughly and readied the box for the first coat of Epoxy Paint. I used a small, electric sander, which was quite easy to do. Next I mixed the two-part epoxy paint, comprised of resin and a hardener. I used four parts resin to one part hardener. I let it sit for one half an hour for an "induction" period, as recommended by the manufacturer. Next I applied the first of at least three coats of epoxy paint on five of eight panels. Painting was quite easy to do. Right, now I am in a four-hour-waiting period, between the application of a successive coat, per the manufacturer's instructions.

Here are some pictures of the progress so far. As always, your comments, advice, and questions are welcomed.

PICTURE 1: Scraping Off the Dried Glue "Squeeze-Out"

IMG_20130407_094348_660_zpsba320982.jpg


PICTURES 2-5: Final Sanding before painting.

IMG_20130407_111113_280_zps987d39d4.jpg


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IMG_20130407_114024_615_zpsfbdd86e6.jpg


IMG_20130407_114507_691_zpsdb91da08.jpg


PICTURE 6: Combined, 2-Part Epoxy Paint Sitting in Container for 1/2 Hour Before Application, Per Manufacturer's Instructions

IMG_20130407_130823_457_zps5700f5f2.jpg


PICTURE 7-8: Striping the Corners with Epoxy Paint, Using Brush

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PICTURE 9:Switching over, from the paint brush to the paint roller.

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PICTURE 10: Five of eight panels now painted with first coat of epoxy paint and now drying. I preferred the brush method, and I switched back. The brush laid down a deeper coat than the thin coat that the roller did; the roller soaks up way too much paint, and the box is small enough that it can be painted with a brush.

IMG_20130407_141749_368_zps82296f65.jpg
 
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