Y does this forum exist?

[Robka]

It seems like anytime someone tries to bring up any issues dealing with the impact that this hobby has on our environment, the thread is closed due to the political nature of the subject. So why even have this platform? It's as if the reef central members have an opinion and close threads based on it. Maybe posts that are offensive should be removed and users warned instead of closing the whole thread down?

 

[benzreef]

The banter is worth it, but some people just want to have the biggest bark. Once people like that get a foothold on an interesting thread, it loses all effectiveness. It seems some posters just want to start an argument for the sake of arguments. These people are ubiquitous. I agree 100% that the thread should not be closed, though the posts should be removed, like every other similar site on the web.

 

[Robka]

The banter is worth it, but some people just want to have the biggest bark. Once people like that get a foothold on an interesting thread, it loses all effectiveness. It seems some posters just want to start an argument for the sake of arguments. These people are ubiquitous. I agree 100% that the thread should not be closed, though the posts should be removed, like every other similar site on the web.

I would like to hear a Reef Central Moderator chime in on this one?

 

[Wolverine]

Over the years there have been many useful debates and discussions within this forum. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for threads here to drift too far into the political spectrum of discussion. Some threads can be relatively easily cleaned up and left in place, with others it's just better to shut them down so people can take a time out rather than letting things continue to escalate.

As benzreef pointed out, there are definitely some members who have a tendency to push threads in that direction. Many are warned (some repeatedly), and many have been banned for being unable to behave.

That fact that we tend to have some more problems here than on average is not a good reason to get rid of it all together.

 

[Robka]

Over the years there have been many useful debates and discussions within this forum. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for threads here to drift too far into the political spectrum of discussion. Some threads can be relatively easily cleaned up and left in place, with others it's just better to shut them down so people can take a time out rather than letting things continue to escalate.

As benzreef pointed out, there are definitely some members who have a tendency to push threads in that direction. Many are warned (some repeatedly), and many have been banned for being unable to behave.

That fact that we tend to have some more problems here than on average is not a good reason to get rid of it all together.

Thanks for the explanation. I spent a lot of time researching threads that deal with reducing the chemicals in our environment and they all seem to end the same way (status quo attacking people that want the people attacking them to be able to feed their families food that has no chemicals at a fair price.) I am amazed that everyone, (except those who work for companies that are benefitted by chemical use), wouldn't champion that cause Apparently if you support such radical ideas like not eating food sprayed with petroleum based chemicals & fertilizers, then your opinion is a crazy politcal agenda trying to get you to pay more for food:hmm3:

 

[dixiedog]

And you're wondering why these threads get locked?? LOL

 

[organism]

I am amazed that everyone, (except those who work for companies that are benefitted by chemical use), wouldn't champion that cause

Just so we're on the same page, the response to your other thread was fairly uniform in that it had nothing to do with reefkeeping, so you start another one and say that anyone who doesn't agree with you either hates the planet or works for a chemical company, and you still need a map drawn as to who the problem user in the scenario is?

 

[docstomper]

Did I just come in here and get trolled?! Tuche` sir!

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Currently this hobby revolves around the use of chemicals. Thats the way its been done for 40 some plus years. Personally I think the hobby could be way more successful without them. It would involve independent filtration. LFS and all the chains such as pet smart and petco would have their tanks separated and not have all the water, fish and disease being run together. Wholesalers would also have to cooperate and not use the copper and formaldehyde that they do. I can't name how many times I've gone and purchased fish and ended up with Ich. Its really sad and takes the fun out of the hobby, but all the chemicals do is kill more fish (if the fish are strong enough to survive treatment they still sustain damage). Better chemical free ways of treating fish are on the cutting edge right now, hopefully we can get everyone on board and not have to use the chemicals anymore. What an improvement for this hobby that would be =)

 

[Laticialm]

Just so you understand you are made up of a bunch of chemicals...chemicals are compounds or groups of atoms that stick together based on the attraction of the electrons on each atom. There is no way to be chemical free...otherwise there would be NO life here on earth. What I think you are saying is that you want to not use man made chemicals...the question I have for you is what do you think would happen if all man made chemicals were banned from the earth today? Do you honestly think your quality of life would be better or the quality of life of our pets?

 

[franklypre]

To my knowledge there are only a few "man made" chemical's, most are combinations of elements. LOL. WHY ASK WHY, especially when dealing with reefers.

 

[KafudaFish]

Currently this hobby revolves around the use of chemicals. Thats the way its been done for 40 some plus years. Personally I think the hobby could be way more successful without them. It would involve independent filtration. LFS and all the chains such as pet smart and petco would have their tanks separated and not have all the water, fish and disease being run together. Wholesalers would also have to cooperate and not use the copper and formaldehyde that they do. I can't name how many times I've gone and purchased fish and ended up with Ich. Its really sad and takes the fun out of the hobby, but all the chemicals do is kill more fish (if the fish are strong enough to survive treatment they still sustain damage). Better chemical free ways of treating fish are on the cutting edge right now, hopefully we can get everyone on board and not have to use the chemicals anymore. What an improvement for this hobby that would be =)

Details such as the technology and who is using it please.

 

[Wolverine]

Methinks we've strayed from the original point of this thread.

 

[Evil Nemo]

I think it might be prudent to keep what the intent of this forum has been created for and how much energy one puts into making a correct argument at the right time and place.

The fact is that there are many other forums that you can make yourself heard on political issues. That your cannot do it here is not the point. This forum is primarily for hobbyists and it is moderated on that basis. I go to other forums when I want to state a political view. I know that it is discouraged here and to do so would to be beating my head against a wall. I come here to learn and share about marine reef aquariums. I go to other forums to express my political views (or better yet be in contact my state and federal office holders).

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

This forum says it focuses on environmental and ethical issues surrounding the hobby with a focus on ways that hobbyists can promote positive change.

When I said "cutting edge" I meant that in the near future chemicals may not even be sought out by hobbyist because they will be educated in new ways of handling disease within this hobby. I don't even believe that the opinion I expressed was political (it surely isn't political yet, because not enough people even know). I don't think these forums should operate based on whats political and whats not anyways, this has to do with the ethical treatment of the fish and how we can keep more of them alive.

However if the moderator could kindly direct me to an area of reef central where I would be allowed to post such thoughts so that I may get others ideas, that would be great. Im not in the business of clogging up threads and getting off topic, but this is truly something I'd like to share with my fellow reefers. They can learn a lot from these ideas.

This industry is my passion, and I believe education is key. If there are better ways out there we can help each other develop them, talking about them is the only way to do this. As ONE person I cannot get state and federal office holders to listen to me. This is something that could only be changed in time with more support.

 

[organism]

When I said "cutting edge" I meant that in the near future chemicals may not even be sought out by hobbyist because they will be educated in new ways of handling disease within this hobby. I don't even believe that the opinion I expressed was political (it surely isn't political yet, because not enough people even know). I don't think these forums should operate based on whats political and whats not anyways, this has to do with the ethical treatment of the fish and how we can keep more of them alive

Exactly, and you took the OP's posts out of context thinking that he was referring to reefkeeping "chemicals" because you expect people to stay on topic and respect the responsible reefkeeping forum.

Your comments are great, so feel free to read through his locked thread on here to see what he's really complaining about before confusing his posts as contributing anything useful to the responsible reefkeeping discussion. Then you'll see the world of difference difference between your posts and his.

 

[likemike99]

I think some of the trouble with these types of topics is we are all talking from our background and not aware of where others are coming from. some people who seem like they may be starting arguments may just truly be from a background where certain things are acceptable, whilethey may seem harsh to others. everyone has a "line" of what they see is acceptable and what is not. I lived in Hawaii for 4 years and they hated that people keep fish because of what it does. Hawaii is a huge exporter of yellow tangs. they are becoming more and more scarce there. so to some using chemicals is OK, to others keeping fish in an ethical way is fine, and to others not keeping them AT ALL is the right way. lets not be so quick to judge

 

[Blinkgyrl2987]

Thanks for the support. I love this hobby and will never support any full ban on stopping imports. However I really think there is a lot we could do to improve this hobby, starting at the wholesale level and with LFS systems. How the fish are kept, and quarantining without the use of chemicals would save a lot of lives. Implementing chemical free curing would cut back on fish loss drastically at the wholesale level. These are the ideas I boast proudly because the forseeable difference it could make on the supply and demand of what we'd even have to get from the ocean would probably decrease. The more life we keep alive, the less we have to take.

Ahh but I will leave this thread be now. Hopefully someone else will pick up on this and start a thread somewhere else? Please? Or show me the appropriate place to discuss improvements for the industry as a whole?

 

[Wolverine]

Hopefully someone else will pick up on this and start a thread somewhere else? Please? Or show me the appropriate place to discuss improvements for the industry as a whole?

This RR subforum is fine to discuss these. I was only referring to this particular thread.

 

[Laticialm]

I am sorry I misunderstood your post blinkgyrl. I see we are both from.Maryland. I haven't actually gotten into the hobby but am doing research. I too want to preserve the life that I keep.