Yes! Our inter-racial clowns layed eggs!!! Oh my - what to do to keep them alive....
- Thread starter ocfishaddicts
- Start date
ocfishaddicts
New member
Thanks for the encouragement unicorn14... it's been fun and hard... but very rewarding...
Plan>B
New member
Great thread... lots of REALLY good info.
For this 'winter' cycle... how long are we talking about? Several months (as a normal cycle) or just a few weeks?
It does make sense... just wondering if putting them on a 4-6 week 'winter' cycle and then move to a 'summer' cycle for 4-6 weeks would work.
Any ideas on any of this cycle time duration?
For this 'winter' cycle... how long are we talking about? Several months (as a normal cycle) or just a few weeks?
It does make sense... just wondering if putting them on a 4-6 week 'winter' cycle and then move to a 'summer' cycle for 4-6 weeks would work.
Any ideas on any of this cycle time duration?
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
I've heard or some of the larger private breeders pushing upwards of several grams to 0.5oz of food for an adult clown (species dependant of course). I tried gorging my clown one winter weekend about 4 yrs ago and was feeding about every hr from 8am until midnight. I estimated that female ate about 0.25oz before mouthing and spitting out everything around 7pm. She was gorged like never before and I'm sure in heaven.
Now I do believe in quality, not necessarily qty. If you gorge your clown with non-enriched BS, it's no better than feeding a couple smaller servings of flake food. Keep your foods fresh, buy in small batches & mix only small batches of frozen food. I truly throw away food that is 8-12 months old now and buy new. This is regardless if I collecting eggs or not. My broodstock is invaluable to me, so I do the best I can to keep them healthy.
As for feedings during work days, I have a feeder on every clown tank. I have a Aquachef which does the job and 3 Renas'. Since I travel about 25% of the time for work, these are must for feeding the bunch while I'm gone. If your lazy when you get home or have comittments, that feed button on the auto feeder is there for you to use it when needed. I prefer to feed frozen and live whenever possible though.
I know every tank is different, but let me explain my bioload. I have a 58gal Oceanic Stony DT with a Tomato pairing, Onyx pairing in a 40gal breeder & the GSM pair held in a 50gal Rubbermaid stock tank lagoon. These 3 tanks are all connected to another 50gal Rubbermiad stock tank as a sump/benthic/excess LR depository.
The Tomatos' receive algae wafer chunks or Spectrum every morning. A few Blackworms each, a pinch of Spectrum and a squirt of Cyclopeeze every night. They occassionally get some mysis or smelt when I get home from work.
The GSM get a 1/4 cube of Ocean Nutrition 1 or homebrew food every morning that they 'share'. Neither care for mysis or the blackworms, so they feast on fresh garlic-soaked shrimp or some chunks of whatever fresh seafood I have in the freezer when I get home. They then get some Spectrum right before lights out (11pm).
The Onxy Percula receive Spectrum in the morning, blackworms when I return home from work and more Spectrum, frozen Ocean Nutrition or homebrew before lights out.
The entire system receives a major dose of Cyclopeeze and TLF Phyto every 1-2 days. I push Blackworms and Cyclopeeze like a crack dealer.....the more i Give hopefully the more they will want the next time.
I didn't really plan to have such a diverse feeding plan for each species, but they just seem too picky and wouldn't all eat the same. I have mastered this regimine and can have it all out in a matter of 5-7 minutes or quicker if required. This system maintains <1ppm Nitrate and has the average patch of algae here and there, but the Taxifolia alone has kept NO3 low in the past. My sun corals love this environment and I have not had to feed one since I upgraded my system to this configuration.
This is all my experience, observation & system. I cannot claim it is 'The Way' or is suitable to other breeders' methodology. It works for me, my clowns have spawned from this & I have no negative affects to my reef.
As for the winter cycle, that may explain why my clowns sporatically spawn during the darkest times of the winter months. For about 2-3 months, the spawns are sketchy and I'm sure that the lights not coming on until 1pm does not help since it is fairly dark until much later in the morning versus the near 18 hrs or direct and indirext lighting they receive in the summer months....
Hmmmm...interesting idea of 'winterizing' your clowns.
Pssst..... Bill.
In a couple months I can be part of the '10 & Over Club' on RC. Yea!
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ocfishaddicts
New member
wow... so much great information! btw - they spawned again with a big clutch...
wow... so much great information! btw - they spawned again with a big clutch...
so much great info! Thanks for taking the time DeathWish302 to document in detail your feeding regime and differences between species as well... sounds like your dedication and experience has paid off! what lucky brood stock to have such a caring dad and luxury environment :thumbsup:
well... there is so much here i am going have to talk with my partner to digest it better (excuse the pun lol!) and figure out what we are going to do. in the meantime, have a couple of questions and also will provide some more info for background.
wow... so much great information! btw - they spawned again with a big clutch...
so much great info! Thanks for taking the time DeathWish302 to document in detail your feeding regime and differences between species as well... sounds like your dedication and experience has paid off! what lucky brood stock to have such a caring dad and luxury environment :thumbsup:
well... there is so much here i am going have to talk with my partner to digest it better (excuse the pun lol!) and figure out what we are going to do. in the meantime, have a couple of questions and also will provide some more info for background.
their diet for past three years has been once a day of a heavy doze of frozen combination (made in smaller batches - food is frozen 6 month supply) - mysis, formula one / fish & reef frozen, Cyclopeeze frozen bar, (they don't eat the frozen shrimp or squid pieces), now the big clip of seaweed (tangs enjoying more) and sometimes the addition of formula 1 & 2 pellets (they really like them) ---- will look to add black worm, Spectrum, frozen Ocean Nutrition and double dosing the cyclopeeze... thanks! so i am gathering that you are feeding the frozen at least twice a day whether they are spawning or not - just varying types depending upon your different species tastes...
will need to look into getting auto feeders and figure out "aquachef & renas" --- Question - is there a particular feeder food to use? also, do you use it during the day each day and if so, how many times --- do you do it when they are "summer spawning"...
my fish and coral are addicts LOL - have been doing this with the cyclopeeze --- will try the TLF Phyto...
pls explain more about Taifolia...
well.... i turned the temp down and haven't changed the lights yet --- have to call reefkeeper and have their tech walk me through how to setup/change the lighting cycles... my pair have laid again so i don't know if she is going to slow down after this or keep going. we let the last batch either hatch out or the parent cleaned it... couldn't tell. we'll see if this works for a break. so far, still carrying on...
:beer: CONGRATS!!! quite impressive - Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and suggestion! it is appreciated:dance:
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
No problem. I like talking sps color improvement methods and clown breeding, so I'm a bit 'wordy' at times. As for dedication...this hobby is not a race, but a rally where you constantly gain knowledge and experiences.
The blackworms are not essential, but Paul (PaulB - RC screename) hooked me on blackworms about 2 years ago. I'm amazed at the feeding response from this...BETTER than Cyclopeeze. I feed frozen for most as often as possible, but in the mornings a quick pinch of Spectrum is easier when running to work. The GSM get frozen b/c I can plop a previously cut 1/4 cube of food and go. The female mouths the food and spits it out and they both consume the smaller pieces, so no effort required by me.
The rule is feed as much forzen and force feed as much algae as possible. Frank Hoff did some studies in the 70's (i believe) that found that nearly ~30% of a clowns diet is algae. We are in no way near matching that in captive systems. I think this may also be a genetically altered trait as a feeding response to only certain foods. This is completely an untested hypothesis of mine and has not been tested. I just have observed many clowns not enjoying most types and preparations of raw algae.
Here are some choices of feeders.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/info/22864/category.web
I like the Aquachef b/c it can have exact times entered for feedings, but it battery-powered. The Rena is powered by a wall wart, but when you plug it in is when it feeds. Kind of a pain if you only add it when you leave for vacations and such and don't remember to plug it in until midnight the night before you leave. 2-of-3 Rena models have been running for 2 years. They have a warm air blower and have kept the pellets clump free. The Aquachef has clumped flakes in the past. If you don't travel much, the cheaper Aquachef will do the job, but I need security for dead batteries and have chose the Rena as the unit to slowly replace all my previous feeders.
I use Spectrum and occassionally Hikari Marine in all my autofeeders. Ahhh... forgot to mention that ALL tanks receive a 2pm feeding from all feeders whether I'm traveling or not. I've never really done anything with the summer/winter shifts and have fed the same rations every season.
Sorry...I had phyto, not zoo on the brain. It's is TLF ZoPlan.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10773/product.web
B/c I'm a concerned reefer, I will let you see the ugly to this species of algae. If your in a temperate zone of the country, it is surely illegal for you to possess or purchase/sell. So, I won't go into depths since there are mixed reviews (most feel it is a noxious weed). Since it grows so well and overtakes everything in it's path, I have confined it to the GSM lagoon (hence lagoon). This is my attempt at replicating a FL Keys grass bed. If control of this species is a concern, chaeto would be better suited. I've run a scrubber in the past, but just got tired of the cleaning cycle and prefer 'pulling some weeds' 1-2x a week from the lagoon for export.
http://www.sccat.net/#nine-banned-species-in-california-f45a4
I hope these constant ramblings are useful in some manner. After hearing some of the experiences and stories from the older folks in the hobby, I've often thought about starting a draft 'book' detailing my experiences and observations. After reading Julian Sprung's 'notes' that are published, it just is not organized in a manner to easily be digested. I prefer writing these lengthy responses, then a much larger audience reviews and possibly will tweak my ideas or methodologies in a manner that can help me. So basically don't fall into the rut of "well it did or didn't happen in my tank so that is the way" attitude. Your always learning in this hobby (ok, almost a part-time job at this point).
Happy Clowning!
You can go into your profile and add it your custom user title
ocfishaddicts;18317257well.... i turned the temp down and haven't changed the lights yet[/QUOTE said:The change in photo period will likely have a more drastic effect than the temperature
Live foods are great for enticement, especially with picky eaters. However, keep in mind that being a fresh water organism they are not nutritionally ideal due to the differences in HUFA's that are typical between FW and SW critters.
DeathWish302
Clown Hoarder
Understood. There has been considerable dicussion on this exact topic iin other threads, so I won't go into specifics. I agree that there are better options, I just have not found good live choices that are as easy to maintain.
duncaholic
New member
Been a while, but I've never stopped thinking about your hatching problem. I came across a piece of info that may or may not be helpfull. A fellow breeder was having a very similar problem and it turns out he was checking the nest at night with a flashlight. IDK whether this is something you have done or not, but apparently direct strong light can cause eggs to not hatch. At least that was his experience. Did some more research after hearing this and there is documentation in a few of the books/threads that supports this. Anyway, when he stopped "shining" them, they started back hatching. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
I'll have to second that about checking eggs with a flashlight. My wife constantly warns me and I'm notorious for doing it!
Thinking “I would show her”, I just recently tested the theory by shining a flashlight directly on the eggs for a longer period of time than I normally do.
The test was:
Shine a flashlight on the Onyx for 3 minutes, 4 times a day starting 2 days prior to hatch.
The result was… Long story short (she was right, I was wrong).
The eggs prolonged into a 3 days hatch which resulted in ~80% mortality. Most eggs never hatched at all. I reproduced the test using our Picassos and came up with the same results.
Note: We don’t use air bubbles to hatch. We use a device that simulates the male parent which allows us to pull the eggs up to 3 days immaturely. Now if the clutch were with the parents, he/she would have surely picked off the dying opaque white egg sacks. (Like you would guess, it appears neighboring eggs are more susceptible to fungus attack for dying eggs).
But even though we haven’t tested it, I'll also agree with nutrition thing. From what we see, it appears that multiple feedings = more eggs. There was one time we “over feed” our Darwins (cleaning up after). They produced so many eggs it the clutch wrapped all the way around the pot. It wasn’t much of a test because it only happened once.
Lighting seems to only effect whether they lay or not. Has anyone tested other ways to increase egg growth?
Thinking “I would show her”, I just recently tested the theory by shining a flashlight directly on the eggs for a longer period of time than I normally do.
The test was:
Shine a flashlight on the Onyx for 3 minutes, 4 times a day starting 2 days prior to hatch.
The result was… Long story short (she was right, I was wrong).
The eggs prolonged into a 3 days hatch which resulted in ~80% mortality. Most eggs never hatched at all. I reproduced the test using our Picassos and came up with the same results.
Note: We don’t use air bubbles to hatch. We use a device that simulates the male parent which allows us to pull the eggs up to 3 days immaturely. Now if the clutch were with the parents, he/she would have surely picked off the dying opaque white egg sacks. (Like you would guess, it appears neighboring eggs are more susceptible to fungus attack for dying eggs).
But even though we haven’t tested it, I'll also agree with nutrition thing. From what we see, it appears that multiple feedings = more eggs. There was one time we “over feed” our Darwins (cleaning up after). They produced so many eggs it the clutch wrapped all the way around the pot. It wasn’t much of a test because it only happened once.
Lighting seems to only effect whether they lay or not. Has anyone tested other ways to increase egg growth?
rooster426
Premium Member
Clownfish Breeding Room Question
Clownfish Breeding Room Question
I know there hasn't been a whole lot of activity lately, but I thought I'd ask this question: so I'm currently building a 400 sq.ft coral prop room in a larger building (that I use for my business). I have another 16'x25' that I am going to frame-out for a clown fish room (connected to the coral room with a common doorway). Any ideas on what I should do/not do, include/not include? I'm thinking in terms of tanks/tubs, hardware necessary, layout ideas, etc. I have 2 gold-stripe maroons that have benn spawning for over 5 years. I've tried twice to raise the babies, got them to just before metamorphosis, and they all died. But I was hooked, loved the process, and would like to try again (and with other clowns). Thanks! oh yeah, and here's a potentially dumb question - what's the best way to use products like selcon and vita-chem? I just thaw my frozen food in it, let it soak for a while, and feed it.
Clownfish Breeding Room Question
I know there hasn't been a whole lot of activity lately, but I thought I'd ask this question: so I'm currently building a 400 sq.ft coral prop room in a larger building (that I use for my business). I have another 16'x25' that I am going to frame-out for a clown fish room (connected to the coral room with a common doorway). Any ideas on what I should do/not do, include/not include? I'm thinking in terms of tanks/tubs, hardware necessary, layout ideas, etc. I have 2 gold-stripe maroons that have benn spawning for over 5 years. I've tried twice to raise the babies, got them to just before metamorphosis, and they all died. But I was hooked, loved the process, and would like to try again (and with other clowns). Thanks! oh yeah, and here's a potentially dumb question - what's the best way to use products like selcon and vita-chem? I just thaw my frozen food in it, let it soak for a while, and feed it.
