Zeovit
- Thread starter sailfintang
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fullmonti
now is the time
Kolognekoral
One more question. You said since I hadn't run the zeo reactor for awhile I definitely had some nutrient build up on rocks. Not disputing the benefits of zeo system at all, but is it possible to know what it is about my tank that has this problem when many many people never use the reactor & have no algae issue? I presume it might be that balance thing that I dream about. I don't think my system is over loaded with fish, think I have more than adequate skimmer, keep every thing as clean as is possible, always do 10% water change every week, have stable perimeters (as far as our test kits go) & yet here I am. What was it I did or didn't do to get to this point?
If there is a link for the Shimek's reactor pls
Thanks again Jim
One more question. You said since I hadn't run the zeo reactor for awhile I definitely had some nutrient build up on rocks. Not disputing the benefits of zeo system at all, but is it possible to know what it is about my tank that has this problem when many many people never use the reactor & have no algae issue? I presume it might be that balance thing that I dream about. I don't think my system is over loaded with fish, think I have more than adequate skimmer, keep every thing as clean as is possible, always do 10% water change every week, have stable perimeters (as far as our test kits go) & yet here I am. What was it I did or didn't do to get to this point?
If there is a link for the Shimek's reactor pls
Thanks again Jim
plyle02
Active member
I have a RBTA, so ill effects. Most anemones have similair requirements to sps, good water quality and strong lighting. Like anything in the hobby, take it slow...
plyle02
Active member
You should be fine, but when in doubt, go to the site that supports their product, they support their product nicely.
GL
Kolognekoral
New member
I have two H. magnifica in my main reef. It used to be one, but it split into a pair. Seems to like Zeo and carbon dosing in general. It/They is over 10 years old. The only soft-corals that show a bit of reaction to vodka/venegar are puming Xenia types. The often contract directly after a dosing, but spring back in 5 mins or so. No permamnent damage, but they certainly notice the slight change in the water column.
Kolognekoral
New member
This is a group of stacked chambers that flow into each other via an interrupted siphon. They provide a range of live food that follows from one chamber to the other and finally into the aquarium. The idea is, each chamber represents a stage in developement of plankton and feeds the next stage. The last stage, which feeds into the aquarium will provide food for azooxanthellate corals.
I never finished mine, so can't report about my own experiences.
Kolognekoral
New member
Jim,
first, I can't seem to locate the link to the plankton reactor. I'll keep looking, but it may be off-line.
i really do not know why some people have such troubles stabilizing a carbon-dosed aquarium. I have had this problem, but my tank did finally stabilize after about a year. Now, for me, the question is, what factor was causing the delay? Was it an imbalance in the redfield ratio? Was it stored nutrients? Was i simply not observing something correctly? Bad/poor testkits can be a problem. Make-up water with nutrients can be a problem. Rock or sand with stored nutrients can be a problem.
Certain items I have noted are: 1) GFO is simply a mistake to use. It will remove the PO4, but not the NO3 and ammonia compounds. It can lead to an imbalance in nutrients for the redfield ratio. 2) Not runnig a zeolith filter can be a problem. Although this can work in theory, not having a controled flow over zeolith leads to to many unpredictable variables. A filter allows the aquarist to modulate the level of bio filtration. Plus, zeolith has the property of directly absorbing ammonia, thus creating a nutrient sink for the bacteria to settle upon. The water flow controls tha amount of O2 and carbon reaching the bacteria. It is simply much mire efficient and effective than a non-filter method. 3) Nutrient depots can suddenly release due to changes in the wate chemistry. A drop in alk can lead to a drop in pH, which will allow certain bonds to break down and release PO4. This can happen overnight and then right itself the next day, but the nutrients may show a jump.
I can assure you that the method does work, but the full set of parameters are still unclear. In most aquariums, it follows a clear course to a successful and stabile tank. In older tanks, tanks with old DSBs or tanks using older rocks, one tends to see problems. The idea of breaking down a system and starting with fresh rock is not wrong. It generally works and, frankly, is often the most cost effective method of stabilizing an aquarium. I have chosen to take the long method in an effort to better understand what happens, but I don't feel like I am getting a clear picture.
I hope this helps you. I wouldn't give up at this point if i were you. You appear to be at the brink of a stabile aquarium. I would simply run the reactor, dose as usual and test parameters regularly. Even a small outbreak of algae is not worthy of a freak-out. I would add some more corals and some hermit crabs or a small sea urchin to help clean the bits away. A reef is a complex system of life and concentrating on just fish and corals is really too limited IMO.
Ciao für now,
fullmonti
now is the time
Changed out the GFO for zeo reactor today
Thank you for your patient explanations. I really want to understand all the relationships between the different system in a reef tank, but it is very complicated especially if you have no science or chemistry back ground (I'm more the art type).
Hope you can find that link, I like the natural food & filter systems.
Thank you for your patient explanations. I really want to understand all the relationships between the different system in a reef tank, but it is very complicated especially if you have no science or chemistry back ground (I'm more the art type).
Hope you can find that link, I like the natural food & filter systems.
Kolognekoral
New member
Jim,
I don't have a good camera for aquariums. I can tell you that the species H. magnifica can be very difficult, but once happy are hard as nails. They will wander about until they find the right spot, typically on a rock directly under the HQI with very good current, but not a hard stream. I feed mine every so often, about every 6 weeks or so, but they really don't require it, but will grow larger when fed. The coours are variable as to collection site. Mine has a violet-lilac stem and blue-tipped brownish tentacles. Relatively subtle, when compared to the red stemmed, but still a beautiful creature.
I don't have a good camera for aquariums. I can tell you that the species H. magnifica can be very difficult, but once happy are hard as nails. They will wander about until they find the right spot, typically on a rock directly under the HQI with very good current, but not a hard stream. I feed mine every so often, about every 6 weeks or so, but they really don't require it, but will grow larger when fed. The coours are variable as to collection site. Mine has a violet-lilac stem and blue-tipped brownish tentacles. Relatively subtle, when compared to the red stemmed, but still a beautiful creature.
yes zeovit is pretty much the same as many other companies like fauna marin/ bright well and even vodka dosing.
something much cheaper is this new method which is far easier to use , its set and forget.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1694529&page=13
fullmonti
now is the time
Hi all
It's 1:24am & I couldn't sleep because things with my tank aren't going as hoped. I've been running the zeo reactor & doing as we discussed, but the what I took as a brown algae kept coming back. Also one of my sps tissue started dying off. I went back to zeo site to review the troubleshooting info I thought I remembered seeing there. I now feel I was mistaking brown slime for brown algae. I seem to remember some one suggesting I might be dosing a little bit to much start2, well I now think I have been for some time (was doing 1/2 ml). The troubleshooting guide also said OD of zeolites can cause RTN. I checked the flow on zeo reactor to make sure it was 100gph but apparently that was still too much.
I have cut back on flow in reactor (to late for the one sps), will do water change tomorrow & cut back on start2 dosing & one or two others. Hopefully that will get rid of brown slime. I did a major cyano clean up couple days ago in frag tank, & cyano seems to be better in display too so hoping it is on the way out.
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?
It's 1:24am & I couldn't sleep because things with my tank aren't going as hoped. I've been running the zeo reactor & doing as we discussed, but the what I took as a brown algae kept coming back. Also one of my sps tissue started dying off. I went back to zeo site to review the troubleshooting info I thought I remembered seeing there. I now feel I was mistaking brown slime for brown algae. I seem to remember some one suggesting I might be dosing a little bit to much start2, well I now think I have been for some time (was doing 1/2 ml). The troubleshooting guide also said OD of zeolites can cause RTN. I checked the flow on zeo reactor to make sure it was 100gph but apparently that was still too much.
I have cut back on flow in reactor (to late for the one sps), will do water change tomorrow & cut back on start2 dosing & one or two others. Hopefully that will get rid of brown slime. I did a major cyano clean up couple days ago in frag tank, & cyano seems to be better in display too so hoping it is on the way out.
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?
plyle02
Active member
How long have you been up and running? How many liters of zeovit stones vs. how many gross gallons of water in your tank, and what is your flow rate? What type of zeo reactor are you running, and are you pumping the stones at least twice per day. I would encourage you to read the PDF file several times and make sure you are dosing the appropriate amounts. Zeovit, unlike other systems is quite agressive and very potent, you don't need much. As far as slime goes, I coral snow and zeozyme are supposed to help nutrilize those bacteria type algaes. I agree with the overdose of zeolites, from my knowledge, they are far more agressive than let's say, Neo-Zeo stones. I think all in all, you need to have the right equipment, patience, dosing, and overall husbandry. I have made it through the startup phase, been battling brown fuzzy type algae, they recommended patience, and stay the course to me on the zeo site, after the break in period, I am now almost rid of this stuff. I would also recommend using a toothbrush and scrubbing the live rock down, depending on it's nutrient build up and the age of the rock. This also seems to be key in the success of their system. Sorry for the info overload, hope it all works out.
fullmonti
now is the time
Perry
Most of that info is in my previous posts this thread. but
Systems been up for 1 yr. Didn't start out with zeo but have been using it in some form or another most of that time. It's been a struggle to find the right balance of zeo, light, food & no algae. I use a Vertex 1.5L reactor, I do pump it twice a day, flow (as of today) less than 100gph. I just managed to get that pdf opened so I will check it out, but I have talked with a bunch of people about zeo & dosing ect I think it all comes down to being able to correctly recognize/identify good & bad things in your tank & know what if any thing needs to be adjusted. That sounds so obvious & simple when I hear my self say it, but apparently it isn't!!!
What really gets me is I see people set up a tank with some crappy little skimmer, throw some macro algae in the sump, put to many fish & some softies in it & it runs just fine.
I did a ton of research, spent a ton of time/money to set up & do every thing right & have had troubles from the get go (at least it seems that way right now).
Any way I love my tank & fish are fat & happy so if I can get this balance thing zeroed in I'll be a happy camper!
Most of that info is in my previous posts this thread. but
Systems been up for 1 yr. Didn't start out with zeo but have been using it in some form or another most of that time. It's been a struggle to find the right balance of zeo, light, food & no algae. I use a Vertex 1.5L reactor, I do pump it twice a day, flow (as of today) less than 100gph. I just managed to get that pdf opened so I will check it out, but I have talked with a bunch of people about zeo & dosing ect I think it all comes down to being able to correctly recognize/identify good & bad things in your tank & know what if any thing needs to be adjusted. That sounds so obvious & simple when I hear my self say it, but apparently it isn't!!!
What really gets me is I see people set up a tank with some crappy little skimmer, throw some macro algae in the sump, put to many fish & some softies in it & it runs just fine.
I did a ton of research, spent a ton of time/money to set up & do every thing right & have had troubles from the get go (at least it seems that way right now).
Any way I love my tank & fish are fat & happy so if I can get this balance thing zeroed in I'll be a happy camper!
plyle02
Active member
I hear you,
It is frustrating, I have spent numerous hours scrubbing my LR with a toothbrush, scraping at he LR to remove bubble alage, basting the LR, sifting/ disturbing the sand, you name it...lol I don't blame zeovit, and I agree that they have a product lineup that requires patience and observance, but you need to know which to dose, how much, and the frequency when encountering these issues. Anyway, here is a pic of my tank running zeo, not the best, but all good things to those who wait... or something...
Made locally specifically to the design I was looking for, made out of PVC, not acrylic...
Kolognekoral
New member
Jim,
let me try to deal with one issue at a time. RTN is often caused by too much PO4 or, conversely, a sudden drop in available nutrients. If the coral is loosing tip growth, then this may be ODing on carbon, too high an alk (KH over 7.5) or HQI burning from the water becoming very clear (zeolith filtration) If the RTN is starting from the base, you have a nutrient imbalance, typically too much PO4.
Another factor that can cause 'burn' on corals, especially Montiporas, is not enough potassium (kalium) in the water. Now, this is often assiciated with ULNS and not clear why it should occur, but weekly water changes with a well balanced salt typically keeps this in cheque. One theory I have tumbling in the back of my head is the actual carbon dosing. We use various products, such as acetic acid, methanol, ehtanol, acetone, etc., which do react with other elements in sea water. We may simply be adding a free radical that binds the ionic potassium causing the dificiency. Or, due to imporved coral growth, the element is simply assimilated at a faster rate. I really don't know.
With ZeoStart2, one should not dose more than 1ml per 400l/110gals in any 24 hour period. More may cause burn or severe nutrient limitation (often the same thing). In general, once one has the PO4 and NO3 at the desired levels of 0.02 (PO4) and 2ppm (NO3), then one should half the Start2 (or vodka/etc. dosage) and keep monitoring the situation. If it remains stabile, then remain at this dosage. If it rises, then increase the doasage until this stops. Yes, this requires time and patience, but is the only reliable method.
The reactor flow is another way to control the bacterial population. Less flow changes the ecology of the filter, generally slowing the bio process. Optimal is, as you know, 100gph for one litre of zeolith. These are ball park figures and each aquarium will differ.
As to what supplement to use when, remaining with the basics until the tank is stabile is the best approach. Adding supplements will blurr the picture and may have deliterious effects. Other than Sponge Power and Coral Vitalizer, I refrain from supplements in new systems. Those two are used at max. half dosages. As the system settles, dosing can be tweeked.
When I see something strange going on in one of my tanks, I check the PO4, NO3, Calcium, Magnesium, Alkalinity, temperature and the salinity. If I find nothing wrong, I check the pH, as well. I rarely come as far as the pH. For me Alk and salinity are two of the most important parameters, other than nutrient levels. If the salinity is wrong, other readings tend to be as well. Remember, salinity is a concentration, not a specific amount. It is relative to temperature. I use a photometer, as I find this the most reliable. There are good hydrometers out there as well. I can't over emphasize the necessity of using good test kits and meters. One incorrect reading will change the whole picture. When in doubt, use another test kit, from a friend or shop.
let me try to deal with one issue at a time. RTN is often caused by too much PO4 or, conversely, a sudden drop in available nutrients. If the coral is loosing tip growth, then this may be ODing on carbon, too high an alk (KH over 7.5) or HQI burning from the water becoming very clear (zeolith filtration) If the RTN is starting from the base, you have a nutrient imbalance, typically too much PO4.
Another factor that can cause 'burn' on corals, especially Montiporas, is not enough potassium (kalium) in the water. Now, this is often assiciated with ULNS and not clear why it should occur, but weekly water changes with a well balanced salt typically keeps this in cheque. One theory I have tumbling in the back of my head is the actual carbon dosing. We use various products, such as acetic acid, methanol, ehtanol, acetone, etc., which do react with other elements in sea water. We may simply be adding a free radical that binds the ionic potassium causing the dificiency. Or, due to imporved coral growth, the element is simply assimilated at a faster rate. I really don't know.
With ZeoStart2, one should not dose more than 1ml per 400l/110gals in any 24 hour period. More may cause burn or severe nutrient limitation (often the same thing). In general, once one has the PO4 and NO3 at the desired levels of 0.02 (PO4) and 2ppm (NO3), then one should half the Start2 (or vodka/etc. dosage) and keep monitoring the situation. If it remains stabile, then remain at this dosage. If it rises, then increase the doasage until this stops. Yes, this requires time and patience, but is the only reliable method.
The reactor flow is another way to control the bacterial population. Less flow changes the ecology of the filter, generally slowing the bio process. Optimal is, as you know, 100gph for one litre of zeolith. These are ball park figures and each aquarium will differ.
As to what supplement to use when, remaining with the basics until the tank is stabile is the best approach. Adding supplements will blurr the picture and may have deliterious effects. Other than Sponge Power and Coral Vitalizer, I refrain from supplements in new systems. Those two are used at max. half dosages. As the system settles, dosing can be tweeked.
When I see something strange going on in one of my tanks, I check the PO4, NO3, Calcium, Magnesium, Alkalinity, temperature and the salinity. If I find nothing wrong, I check the pH, as well. I rarely come as far as the pH. For me Alk and salinity are two of the most important parameters, other than nutrient levels. If the salinity is wrong, other readings tend to be as well. Remember, salinity is a concentration, not a specific amount. It is relative to temperature. I use a photometer, as I find this the most reliable. There are good hydrometers out there as well. I can't over emphasize the necessity of using good test kits and meters. One incorrect reading will change the whole picture. When in doubt, use another test kit, from a friend or shop.
fullmonti
now is the time
Hi Jamie
As I said earlier post I revisited the zeo troubleshooting site, reading the list of OD effects of each of the zeo products brown slime came up over & over. Kinda wake up call for me, especially start2 brown film & air bubbles at lighting period, both of which I have.
I think my miss ID of brown slime for so long has prolonged at least one of my problems. It's a shame fellow reefers are so spread out. Some times if some one who knew could just stop by & check a tank out many situations could be headed off much earlier.
As for the RTN. Every time I have checked PO4&NO3 both have been at or near 0 for months, KH 7.5 to 8.5 tops (7.5 at present), have chiller so temp stays 77-79, calcium reactor Cal. 400+ Mag 1350-1400, pH 8.35-4 day 8.25-3 night, salinity 1025-1026 all are very stable. 10% water change every week. The sps that tissue died on started at base, it was a Digitate acro, some montis look a little iffy. I once had my water checked by a lab & potassium was OK then & I haven't been doing any thing different since then, but I don't have tester for it to check. I'm thinking between running the GFO before & then the zeo reactor must be it, does that sound reasonable?
I'm still at a loss as to what that very fine fuzz is. I did what I was thinking/hoping would be last dose of algaefix last sun. & yesterday did the toothbrush scrubbing of the slime on all rocks, broke up slight brown crust on sand, cleaned filter bags (twice) & the fuzz is still there today & brown crust already starting to form on sand. I have 25gal water mixing now for water change. Thinking of holding off on dosing every thing for few days till the slime eases up. May be another water change tomorrow too?
So what do you think?
As I said earlier post I revisited the zeo troubleshooting site, reading the list of OD effects of each of the zeo products brown slime came up over & over. Kinda wake up call for me, especially start2 brown film & air bubbles at lighting period, both of which I have.
I think my miss ID of brown slime for so long has prolonged at least one of my problems. It's a shame fellow reefers are so spread out. Some times if some one who knew could just stop by & check a tank out many situations could be headed off much earlier.
As for the RTN. Every time I have checked PO4&NO3 both have been at or near 0 for months, KH 7.5 to 8.5 tops (7.5 at present), have chiller so temp stays 77-79, calcium reactor Cal. 400+ Mag 1350-1400, pH 8.35-4 day 8.25-3 night, salinity 1025-1026 all are very stable. 10% water change every week. The sps that tissue died on started at base, it was a Digitate acro, some montis look a little iffy. I once had my water checked by a lab & potassium was OK then & I haven't been doing any thing different since then, but I don't have tester for it to check. I'm thinking between running the GFO before & then the zeo reactor must be it, does that sound reasonable?
I'm still at a loss as to what that very fine fuzz is. I did what I was thinking/hoping would be last dose of algaefix last sun. & yesterday did the toothbrush scrubbing of the slime on all rocks, broke up slight brown crust on sand, cleaned filter bags (twice) & the fuzz is still there today & brown crust already starting to form on sand. I have 25gal water mixing now for water change. Thinking of holding off on dosing every thing for few days till the slime eases up. May be another water change tomorrow too?
So what do you think?
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