47G SPS...Revamp

[sahin]

Hello Sahin,
It was a pleasure meeting you.
To be honest your pictures are good ... don't take me wrong ... but they don't do justice to what I have seen yesterday.
Very nice colors, amazing polyp extension. Actually Sahin had to blast the acros so that they could hide the polyps and we could see the color behind. AMAZING ...
The colors building up as we saw in the frag that was on the rack.

Hi Rui, it was really nice to meet another reefkeeper! - Especially one from another country. Would love to meet more of the nice people on especially in the SPS forum...maybe except for Biggles...he wanted to send me fishing on a dangerous and slippery cliff... :worried:

Thanks for the nice comments. The corals colours can improve a lot still, I am not anywhere near the success I had a few years ago.

I actually dislike the silly polyp extension I get on my SPS :headwally: ...on some like the blue green Tenius you saw, the less colourful polpys hides the nice colours underneath...bloody polyps are too long! :uzi:

That brown millepora frag with the red colours coming through that was on the frag rack was actually in my friends tank. He didnt want it anymore...I guess because it is so damn hard to colour up. But I was happy to see the colours coming through when we disturbed it and the polyps withdrew.

The frags arrived just nicely ... I had to go to the bag packing area and ask for a piece of plastic as the little bucket was leaking some water. The guys just looked at me and thought I was crazy

Thats good to hear. I bet the guy thought you were crazy asking for plastic to seal up the bucket! Thats quite funny! LOL. :lol:

It's also dependent on my wife job schedule but I will definitely try to have more time next visit.
Once again. Thanks!
Rui

Yes, definitely try. I can drive you to a couple of LFS that have decent SPS/LPS stock. - Unlike me, you have a large tank with lots of space for nice corals.

P.S: BTW ... where are those updated pictures? The RedPlanet is very diferent from the last pictures you took ... So lets update this or it's an whooping next time I am in London
THIS POST IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES ....

Yes boss. I will post up some photos on the weekend.

The extra feeding has caused the Red Planet to become a darker wine colour red, but with nice green base... I guess its a nutrient balancing act; I want the brighter red colouration back, but retain the green base.

Its crazy though, I've gone up from 2-3 fishes to 11 fishes and have been feeding 3-4 cubes of frozen mysis per day, 3 x mixture of flakes per day on the auto feeder and a mixture of Nyos Gold pods/Coral Vitaliser/AquaVitro Fuel/KZ Amino Acids every 2-3 days...and I've dosed Seachem Nitrate some weeks back as well.

And there is still NO algae on the glass or rocks...I dont need to clean the glass for 2 weeks or more! No algae on the rocks.

PO4=0.01-0.02ppm NO3=0.2ppm.

I swear there is a black hole somewhere in my sump where all the nutriets vanish into...

 

[joshky]

Its crazy though, I've gone up from 2-3 fishes to 11 fishes and have been feeding 3-4 cubes of frozen mysis per day, 3 x mixture of flakes per day on the auto feeder and a mixture of Nyos Gold pods/Coral Vitaliser/AquaVitro Fuel/KZ Amino Acids every 2-3 days...and I've dosed Seachem Nitrate some weeks back as well.

And there is still NO algae on the glass or rocks...I dont need to clean the glass for 2 weeks or more! No algae on the rocks.

PO4=0.01-0.02ppm NO3=0.2ppm.

I swear there is a black hole somewhere in my sump where all the nutriets vanish into...

Wow that's a lot of food for your tank! :eek1: I hope your fish don't die from obesity, you have them on the McDonalds diet!

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Its crazy though, I've gone up from 2-3 fishes to 11 fishes and have been feeding 3-4 cubes of frozen mysis per day, 3 x mixture of flakes per day on the auto feeder and a mixture of Nyos Gold pods/Coral Vitaliser/AquaVitro Fuel/KZ Amino Acids every 2-3 days...and I've dosed Seachem Nitrate some weeks back as well.

There is so much nitrogen potential in that list ...

 

[sahin]

Wow that's a lot of food for your tank! :eek1: I hope your fish don't die from obesity, you have them on the McDonalds diet!

There is so much nitrogen potential in that list ...

So where is it all going??? Has the Prodibio/Zeobac conconction i used to dose many many months back placed some super bacteria in my tank???

I have at last 2 different brands of each PO4 and NO3 test kits...so I know I am not getting silly results from the testing.

Also Rui visited me yesterday from Portugal and can attest to my rocks having no algae. I ONLY clean the glass to get rid of some coralline algae and a green dusting that shows up slightly after maybe a week. But I can leave the glass cleaning for upto two weeks.

I run a skimmer and cheato...cheato doesnt even grow that fast. But skimmer works well and collects lots of dark crap. I dont dose bacteria or any carbon course.

 

[joshky]

So where is it all going??? Has the Prodibio/Zeobac conconction i used to dose many many months back placed some super bacteria in my tank???

I have at last 2 different brands of each PO4 and NO3 test kits...so I know I am not getting silly results from the testing.

Also Rui visited me yesterday from Portugal and can attest to my rocks having no algae. I ONLY clean the glass to get rid of some coralline algae and a green dusting that shows up slightly after maybe a week. But I can leave the glass cleaning for upto two weeks.

I run a skimmer and cheato...cheato doesnt even grow that fast. But skimmer works well and collects lots of dark crap. I dont dose bacteria or any carbon course.

Honestly I don't know, your black hole theory is about as good as any.

 

[markalot]

So where is it all going???

Good question, I had to use bio-pellets to reduce NO3 and PO4 in my 150, but in my dirty filthy 29 gallon I get 0 for both using the same kits. I have some nuisance algae (caulerpa) but it's not enough to be sucking up all the nutrients IMO.

 

[mhucasey]

Hi Rui, it was really nice to meet another reefkeeper! - Especially one from another country. Would love to meet more of the nice people on especially in the SPS forum...maybe except for Biggles...he wanted to send me fishing on a dangerous and slippery cliff... :worried:

Thanks for the nice comments. The corals colours can improve a lot still, I am not anywhere near the success I had a few years ago.

I actually dislike the silly polyp extension I get on my SPS :headwally: ...on some like the blue green Tenius you saw, the less colourful polpys hides the nice colours underneath...bloody polyps are too long! :uzi:

That brown millepora frag with the red colours coming through that was on the frag rack was actually in my friends tank. He didnt want it anymore...I guess because it is so damn hard to colour up. But I was happy to see the colours coming through when we disturbed it and the polyps withdrew.


Thats good to hear. I bet the guy thought you were crazy asking for plastic to seal up the bucket! Thats quite funny! LOL. :lol:


Yes, definitely try. I can drive you to a couple of LFS that have decent SPS/LPS stock. - Unlike me, you have a large tank with lots of space for nice corals.



Yes boss. I will post up some photos on the weekend.

The extra feeding has caused the Red Planet to become a darker wine colour red, but with nice green base... I guess its a nutrient balancing act; I want the brighter red colouration back, but retain the green base.

Its crazy though, I've gone up from 2-3 fishes to 11 fishes and have been feeding 3-4 cubes of frozen mysis per day, 3 x mixture of flakes per day on the auto feeder and a mixture of Nyos Gold pods/Coral Vitaliser/AquaVitro Fuel/KZ Amino Acids every 2-3 days...and I've dosed Seachem Nitrate some weeks back as well.

And there is still NO algae on the glass or rocks...I dont need to clean the glass for 2 weeks or more! No algae on the rocks.

PO4=0.01-0.02ppm NO3=0.2ppm.

I swear there is a black hole somewhere in my sump where all the nutriets vanish into...

Blah blah blah...still no pictures

 

[tomae]

large text and little pictures! we want photos !!!!!

 

[DiscusHeckel]

So where is it all going??? Has the Prodibio/Zeobac conconction i used to dose many many months back placed some super bacteria in my tank???

I have at last 2 different brands of each PO4 and NO3 test kits...so I know I am not getting silly results from the testing.

Also Rui visited me yesterday from Portugal and can attest to my rocks having no algae. I ONLY clean the glass to get rid of some coralline algae and a green dusting that shows up slightly after maybe a week. But I can leave the glass cleaning for upto two weeks.

I run a skimmer and cheato...cheato doesnt even grow that fast. But skimmer works well and collects lots of dark crap. I dont dose bacteria or any carbon course.

Do you have any cyanobacteria?

Do you measure potassium consumption? If so, what is the daily rate of depletion?

 

[Reefvet]

So where is it all going??? Has the Prodibio/Zeobac conconction i used to dose many many months back placed some super bacteria in my tank???

Are you still running Siporax in your sump ?

You clearly benefited from the bacteria supplementing. There are no super bacteria but having dosed it would indicate you biased the population to an ideal balance.

Colonizing Siporax well takes 3-4 months and then it becomes incredibly efficient. Roughly 30 times the capability of live rock if kept clean of detritus.

I'm currently testing some Japanese pond media in the aquaculture lab. It's a natural stone that's comparable to Siporax in capacity but more varied in density. I'll have a first bacterial profile and count done next month after 4 months of use. Preliminary samples show it's able to support about 25 times the bacteria density of live rock.

 

[biggles]

Is matrix the same sorta thing as siporax, can't get siporax in Aus from what i've found searching but matrix is available. Much cheaper than LR at $15- a kilo when it's going to be sitting unseen in a dark sump. I am going to copy your bacteria generator thingy setup Sahin because i like feeding the fish a lot more than i should and that idea sounds simple to maintain and makes a lot of sense.
If i have the slightest problem you will obviously have a lot to answer for, you and Reefvet...........:reading:

 

[reefmutt]

Yep.. Matrix is an irregularly shaped blown glass product with very tiny pores like siporax. The major difference, I think, is that siporax is very uniform in its pore size whereas matrix varies in its shape and porosity..

There is also Seachem De-nitrate. It is the same product but smaller and more granular. I guess because it is smaller, you can pack it together more closely and get more anaerobic areas..

Might be adding some to my system..

 

[Reefvet]

Is matrix the same sorta thing as siporax, can't get siporax in Aus from what i've found searching but matrix is available.

Yes Matrix is a similar type of media. Though not as effective as Siporax in our tests it's still very good.

Unfortunately Sera isn't exporting anywhere outside the European union. So the only way to get Siporax here in the U.S. is from grey market importers at a premium price.

If i have the slightest problem you will obviously have a lot to answer for, you and Reefvet...........:reading:

Hah! You'll have to give us credit when you suddenly can raise that BFC 50% !

These media are not that different from the Zeo media and they function on the very same principles. There is a certain amount of adsorption internally and adsorption to the surface. Because the media are extremely porous you have a much higher ratio of bacteria to the volume of media compared to live rock.

Zeo suggest you toss the media and buy new periodically whereas Seachem is honest and tells you that this stuff can benefit from an occasional surface cleaning but there is no need to replace it.

They all work best in relatively low flow, i.e. 100 gal. per hour, with the best results coming from a cannister filter or media chamber/reactor where you can insure even flow through the media.

We use a lot of this stuff in large closed aquaculture systems after the skimmers and a sponge or filter sock. The Japanese pond media I'm testing is proving to be very good for Nitrate reduction. It's natural stone of some kind and most of it floats until saturated with water. That's porous !

 

[Reefvet]

There is also Seachem De-nitrate. It is the same product but smaller and more granular. I guess because it is smaller, you can pack it together more closely and get more anaerobic areas..

Not quite. It's meant for very low flow, half that of Matrix, and does not sustain the same level of effectiveness as Matrix in the same ratio of media to tank volume.

They do also have a pond media but that's meant to do some level of mechanical filtration as well and I wouldn't recommend it either.

 

[reefmutt]

Reefvet, do you have any experience with Marine Pure Biofilter Media?
It seems like a similar product, although the pore size seems much larger.. It's relatively new on the market..

http://www.cermedia.com/marinepure-products.php

Hope I'm allowed to post this link...

 

[reefmutt]

Thanks for the clarification on the seachem products..
So, as far as the matrix goes, you wouldn't suggest putting it in mesh bags in a fairly dead area of a sump?
100gph flow right through the media is best?
I sort of figured, like a dsb, extremely low flow to basically non (like in the depths of a dsb) would be best..

 

[reefmutt]

Come to think about it.. What about the little brown round bio media balls that Eheim makes or the white siporax like porous media that Fluval makes?
Have you tested these, reefvet?

 

[Reefvet]

Sorry Sahin. I think your thread has been hijacked :facepalm:

It's because you have such great looking corals and no algae problems so I hope you don't mind.

We've tested the Fluval and Eheim products and they're not bad but not even close to Siporax or Matrix. Matrix has an added benefit of varied pore size while Siporax is the easiest to push water through and is the most porous. So each of these products has their own unique characteristics. We have not tested MarinePure but it's clearly designed to provide the same type of filtration. I would be suspect of their rocks and molded blocks because you want more surface exposure for the volume of media than they offer.

Matrix will work fine in a filter bag in a sump. 100 gph was the minimum to utilize it at it's full capacity and to support aerobic and anaerobic filtration. Below that and it'll just not be optimized. Double that flow rate and you loose the anaerobic component.

 

[reefmutt]

Thanks, reefvet for this great info!
And thanks, Sahin for the space!
Good info is good info, no matter where it is and this just adds to an already outstanding thread!
Now.... Sahin, I wish I had your problems of throwing so much organic matter in your system and the system dealing with it so efficiently..
All of the bacterial products in the market say to use it regularly to get the beneficial results- Sahin, were you dosing prodibio and zeobac frequently, or did you just use it once?

 

[naterealbig]

Hey guys, sorry for adding to the detraction of the thread . I do have a question however, as I like the idea of having Siporax in my sump as opposed to Live Rock for 2 reasons: it's "neater" than LR, and it will allow more space for a rediculously over-sized skimmer.

You mention a volumetric flow rate through the bacteria (100 gph, I think) but that's only good for a set area. For instance, 100gph through a 6 in diameter reactor let's say, is much different than flow through a 10 in diameter reactor. I think what we really need is an effective velocity over the media, which could be converted and applied to any reactor or chamber.

Am I on the wrong track here? Perhaps we should start a separate thread?