600gal (96x48x30)
- Thread starter asnatlas
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asnatlas
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I will have the overflow going to the skimmer and ref... The ref will overflow into the sump and then return to the display... But I wanted a "dedicated" feed from the ref back to the display so that no pump impellers or anything would hurt / kill the PODS... I am not worry about the ref getting food, just trying to get some ideas on setting up a dedicated link back to the display...
Black71gp
New member
my tank is all bare bottom... and i think i did not cook my rocks enough or something cause they shead like crazy at almost a year still.. i have a fuge with micro algea.. the spagettii kind, and it grows good... i figure its helping catch what the skimmer misses.. so i would for sure try it. dedicated link back... huh.. ya i dont know on that i seem to have tons of pods in my fuge like crazy tons,, and a bit in my tank my mandrin is crazy fat....let us know what you come up with
Travis
10 and over club
There are only 2 ways to directly feed the tank from your refugium. First, is gravity. Second, is to have the refugium at the same height as the sump and use a return pump for each. The refugium will also have to be connected to the sump with a pipe and bulkheads at the bottom to keep the water level consistent in each. Hard to explain but those are the only 2 possible ways.
asnatlas
New member
So you ref has the following... DSB, LR, and macro algae ??
I guess what I am trying to find out if will my POD population decrease alot with not having a DSB ?? I am sure it will decrease some, but like I said the main reason I wanted to have a ref was for PODs so that they would have a "safe" place to grow and multiply...
asnatlas
New member
The display, ref, and sump will be in a three-tier layout... Highest being the display that will be gravity fed into ref and BK400, both of those into the sump, then the Dart will return back to the Display... With this setup I am not worried about the skimmer picking up the PODs from the sump as it is only being fed from the overflow from the Display... I am sure I am over analyzing this too much but I would like to find a way to feed the display from the ref so that the PODs are not killed or injured before entering the display... I am just picturing them flowing from the ref into the sump then as they enter the Dart alot of them would be killed or injured by the impeller when getting returned to the display... Does this make since LOL ?? I guess I am kinda looking for like a dosing pumpââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦ Just something that could run 24/7 (low flow) where the PODs don't have to come in contact with a impeller or anything...
asnatlas
New member
Well did I have a fun and eventful Monday... Today I for off work after 12hrs shift... My wife drove her car up to meet me at work as we were driving to Lima together... I had borrowed my cousin Jimmy so that I could transport the 48x48 sheets since non of my cars would be able to... I am driving along (about 1/3 of the way their his SUV start to make this god awful noise and does not stop, I pull over and just as I am stopping it stalls... I sit there for a few, call him and while talking to him I get it turned over again... I get a few miles down off onto a ramp once I get to the top of the ramp the car stalls again. This time I am in the middle of the road (small little off road) so I get it coasted off the side and parked... This time the car will not even turnover... Luckily we had AAA and we got his car towed to his house where it now sits out front... From his house he drives us to my wifeââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s parents house where we borrow her dads F150... While we were coming back in the wreaker the driver was asking us where were headed and we told him and the general way that we had mapped... He stated that there was a "faster" way and to go this way... Well after we had picked up the F150 and started back headed to Lima we went the way that the driver had told us... BIG MASTAKE !!!!!!!!! The general way we needed to go was NW and the way we were headed were directly west... So after a while of not seeing what he stated we would be seeing I looked on the map and were would like an hr South of where we needed to be... So lucky at that time we hit a major interstate that headed north to Lima... Finally get there and get everything and get back in town just in time to get Herbie (our Corgi puppy) to puppy class... Then after that we had to drive up North to my work to get her car, then back South to drop off the F150 then East back home... So what we were expecting to be a "rather quick trip" that we had planned to be back in town (by like 12:30pm) and in bed to rest for a few hrs because puppy class turned into a full day for fun and excitement that didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t end until around 10pm...
jnarowe
New member
As far as I could learn from a local biologist who grows and sells pods, sand is not a requirement. I think it helps a bit to create a more natural environment though. Really what they need is detritus to feed on. And that may be just a generalization based on the particular pods she grows. Since there are so many kinds, I would guess that some of them don't feed on detritus.
Mondays can really suck, especially if yu put some effort into it!
I have no idea how you can get the pods into your display without running them through a pump. You can suck them up with a turkey baster, but that would require your attention and it would be impossible to tell how much you were really "dosing". How about growing your pods in a small refugium above the tank that overflows into it? You could build a small acrylic box with a 1/4" input from the sump and an overflow into the tank. Toss in a little sand and algae and you're done!
Mondays can really suck, especially if yu put some effort into it!
I have no idea how you can get the pods into your display without running them through a pump. You can suck them up with a turkey baster, but that would require your attention and it would be impossible to tell how much you were really "dosing". How about growing your pods in a small refugium above the tank that overflows into it? You could build a small acrylic box with a 1/4" input from the sump and an overflow into the tank. Toss in a little sand and algae and you're done!
Travis
10 and over club
It is really difficult to explain but your refugium is an open loop and your sump is on that same loop. To have a dedicated return such as a dosing pump for the fuge would require that you are able to set the return for EXACTLY the same flow rate as what you are feeding your fuge. That is basically impossible. Eventually the fuge will either oveflow or the return will run dry as you just can't set the flow rates to be exactly the same. Even if you get them the same, dosing pumps get off over time and need to be recalibrated. This would be enough of a flow difference to either flood the fuge or run it dry. Also, I'm not sure about the mechanics of the peristalitc action of dosing pumps, but I have a feeling they would be just as hard on the pods as a return pump.
One possibility is to have that dosing pump on a float switch. Set the dosing pump to pump at a rate faster than the fuge feed rate. When the water level in the fuge drops too low, the dosing pump turns off. When it rises again the dosing pump turns back on. But that is just one more link in your system that could possibly go wrong.
I think you are overthinking it too much.:lol: If you want to feed the fuge directly to the display it should be with gravity. Otherwise, you are going to damage pods regardless of whether you are using a dosing pump or a return pump.
One possibility is to have that dosing pump on a float switch. Set the dosing pump to pump at a rate faster than the fuge feed rate. When the water level in the fuge drops too low, the dosing pump turns off. When it rises again the dosing pump turns back on. But that is just one more link in your system that could possibly go wrong.
I think you are overthinking it too much.:lol: If you want to feed the fuge directly to the display it should be with gravity. Otherwise, you are going to damage pods regardless of whether you are using a dosing pump or a return pump.
jnarowe
New member
I agree about gravity feed and that is what I am doing. But I assume that in this case the refugium has to be under the stand. I would disagree about feeding the mini-refugium however.
The way I feed mine is I have a 1" line feeding above the water line, and a 1-1/2" overflow pipe set at the proper depth and going into the display. The 1" feed has a gate valve on it to estimate proper flow rate. I also have an emergency extra 1" overflow line as well.
So, as I feed the water from the sump I adjust it to where the water is comfortably overflowing at about half the capacity of the 1-1/2" drain line. It is essentially a continuous loop fed off the sump, but the pods are gravity fed into the display. I have no worries that it will ever dry up because the refugium will always have water up to it's overflow point. I have no worries that it will ever fill up and pour on the floor because of the capacities of my overflows at 2-1/2". And I have no worry that it will siphon back to the sump because the feed is above the water line.
The way I feed mine is I have a 1" line feeding above the water line, and a 1-1/2" overflow pipe set at the proper depth and going into the display. The 1" feed has a gate valve on it to estimate proper flow rate. I also have an emergency extra 1" overflow line as well.
So, as I feed the water from the sump I adjust it to where the water is comfortably overflowing at about half the capacity of the 1-1/2" drain line. It is essentially a continuous loop fed off the sump, but the pods are gravity fed into the display. I have no worries that it will ever dry up because the refugium will always have water up to it's overflow point. I have no worries that it will ever fill up and pour on the floor because of the capacities of my overflows at 2-1/2". And I have no worry that it will siphon back to the sump because the feed is above the water line.
melev
Well-known member
Jonathan, are you referring to Adelaide Rhoades of oceanpods.com by any chance? She was here speaking about copepods at our DFWMAS Winter Social. When we had some time to talk, I told her how I doubt return pumps harm copepods at all. These are tiny specs of life, and our pumps move tons of water by comparison. They pretty much swoosh right through, rather than being paddled like a bad child in school.
That is my opinion, based on what I saw with a Rio 2500 with an impellar that appears to be built by the Borg. Ever seen those things? Will, I was pumping all the detritus out of my sump with that pump during a water change, and sucked up some large (2") baby brittle starfish in the process. Oops. When I was done, I dumped out the barrel of old water, and found those starfish fully intact with all of their arms. How those were not shredded off by the impellar is amazing. Copepods are far far tinier, so I believe they go through unharmed.
Hopefully Adelaide can do a study on it one day and give us a definitive answer.
Or we should teach our copepods to wear Nike sneakers. For the swoosh factor.
That is my opinion, based on what I saw with a Rio 2500 with an impellar that appears to be built by the Borg. Ever seen those things? Will, I was pumping all the detritus out of my sump with that pump during a water change, and sucked up some large (2") baby brittle starfish in the process. Oops. When I was done, I dumped out the barrel of old water, and found those starfish fully intact with all of their arms. How those were not shredded off by the impellar is amazing. Copepods are far far tinier, so I believe they go through unharmed.
Hopefully Adelaide can do a study on it one day and give us a definitive answer.
Or we should teach our copepods to wear Nike sneakers. For the swoosh factor.
jnarowe
New member
Yeah it was Adelaide. I bought a bottle just as a lark. The buddy I brought with me is a marine biologist and he just about died when he saw she was selling a tiny bottle of copepods for $25. I temered the bottle and rather unceremoniously poured them into my rock tank. And BTW, I am sure your are right about the typical pump not harming the pods.
I actually have my refugium above my tank primarily because it makes sense to "part out" the return flow and use some of it in the refugium and allow gravity to take it to the display. I think it's more efficient that way. I am designing my system to run entirely off of one Sequence pump, and use IceCap power heads for display flow.
I actually have my refugium above my tank primarily because it makes sense to "part out" the return flow and use some of it in the refugium and allow gravity to take it to the display. I think it's more efficient that way. I am designing my system to run entirely off of one Sequence pump, and use IceCap power heads for display flow.
IndoorOcean
Premium Member
So when can we see this tank full of water? 
asnatlas
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6615591#post6615591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IndoorOcean
So when can we see this tank full of water?
LOL. About 5 to 6 days from once I start my RO/DI unit
I have been working alot and not had much time to work on this project... I got my HDPE that I need to get cut down to fit inside the tank and then I need to get over to a local club members house to pick up the Envirotex Lite epoxy for my faux SB... Tomorrow I am going to try to get the HDPE cut down to size and work on the fish room some more... I also need to get to the post office to get the last of the black Tunze clips set out to those who are waiting for the exchange...hmmm. your gonna do that faux sand bed glued to the bottom thing huh? are you sure you want to do that? I can see doing it in a smaller tank for experimental reasons but I dont understand how you are going to keep it clean in the long run on such a large aquarium. it will get covered in algae and will be very hard to clean. especially coraline. unless that is the point. is that faux bed going to be glued to the bottom of the tank, or are you putting the HDPE down across the bottom then glueing the substrate to that? I am a bit confused as the the purpose of the faux bed. I know it will act like a barebottom but with the look of the sand, and also protection of the bottom glass. it just seems like it will be unsightly when the algae has grown on it, and will be pointless once the coraline sets in.
asnatlas
New member
I will be putting the epoxy and sand on the HDPE... As Mantis stated his has been up and running for about 7 months and still looks like sand... Since I am going BB I hope not to have alot of algae as all of the excess nutrients will be skimmed out with the BK400... I will also have a clean up crew as well...
what about the coralline algae? how will you get that off/out of the sand? i can see it being ok for 7 months but what about years from now? that skimmer isnt goin to stop coralline algae from growing.
what about anaerobic activity and hydrogen sulfide release from within the stagnant area between the HDPE and glass? are you going to seal the hdpe somehow so water doesnt get in between?
what about anaerobic activity and hydrogen sulfide release from within the stagnant area between the HDPE and glass? are you going to seal the hdpe somehow so water doesnt get in between?
agree
agree
I am with starployp. In the long run you will have a huge headache. My 300 is bare bottom now. It took just about 6 months or so (maybe less) until my bottom is almost completely purple and pink covered in coraline. However I could scrape it if I wanted to. The texture you are creating will definately help the algae take hold and you will not see any "sand" for long.
agree
I am with starployp. In the long run you will have a huge headache. My 300 is bare bottom now. It took just about 6 months or so (maybe less) until my bottom is almost completely purple and pink covered in coraline. However I could scrape it if I wanted to. The texture you are creating will definately help the algae take hold and you will not see any "sand" for long.
asnatlas
New member
Your right the skimmer will not stop coralline; I was just referring to normal algae when I was talking about the skimmer pulling out all of the excess nutrients... As for the coralline I was also planning on having a few Urchins in the tank and I am hoping they will keep the coralline at bay on the faux SB...
As for the stagnant area between the HDPE and glass I am not too worried about that as it will be a very small space and I think once everything is setup it will not be a problem... I mean BB has been around for many years and this has not seemed to pose a problem before...
Another thing I could do is once the faux SB is cured I could go back over it again with a very thin layer of epoxy so that the surface is smooth, but then again coralline seems to stick better to a smooth surface rather an uneven from what I have read.....
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