600gal (96x48x30)

[melev]

This is a very high end skimmer, and as far as I can tell it's a recirculating skimmer. You can drain into the skimmer body directly from the tank - in fact that is what is recommended and why many are buying new RC (not "Reef Central", btw) skimmers and replacing their older ones that use the normal pump-it-in system.

Getting everything set up correctly now is key. Talking it out is ideal. You can bet I got tons of advice as I set up the 280g reef in my home during the 14 day project, and I used what seemed like good, solid advice and didn't use what wasn't within reason to my particular needs.

Shawn's doing a good job so far. Let's not pidgeon-hole him here. Shawn, I'd talk to the mfg to see what he recommends if possible. Or get input from the other Bubble King owners at least.

 

[imbuggin]

look

look

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6733263#post6733263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asnatlas
I guess since everyone feels I have already made up my mind about everything dealing with this project, but yet I still ask questions not even going to consider anything that is posted, I should just keep this thread to updates only...

look I fully understand this is a large undertaking. More than I would like to. I am not looking to start trouble. It just seems that your plan from day 1 is your plan and people give you advice and you make no changes or little if any.

And just curiously Starpoylp I see you removed your profession. I assume not to be bothered. Since I do in fact know what you do, can you tell me how many 300+ tanks you have set-up?? 20, 30, 50 100? I know the largest was like 250,000 gallons.

Point is I have learned one thing in 25 years at this. There indeed are many ways to do things. The safest and simplest almost always ends up the best. And I highly dought people are changing pump driven skimmers to gravity feed for the performance. They may change to recirculating ones (which have 1 pump already) for more performance. BUT a drain from the overflow will not do a thing towards performance. Just risk. Why deal with an "emergency drain" avoid the emergency altogether.

 

[jnarowe]

Shawn don't kill the discussion because of a negative comment. This is the only way to gather enough info. to make a decision as to what is best for your set up. Like Marc says, they are all different, and I just tend to chime in when someone is saying it "must" be done a certain way.

It's like my neighbor reefer who insists every time I see him that I must have a DSB. It makes me feel like my eyes are going to roll completely around. The sand that will be in my system would completely fill his tank, but 90% of it will not be in the display.

And I was not referring to you in my comment about some people refusing to accept a proper conclusion. First of all, that was a joke, although a somewhat dry one, and it was pointed to the person insisting that a skimmer should be fed by a pump rather than an overflow. It depends entirely on the particular system, how it is installed, and what goals the reefer has in mind for the tank.

imbuggin Electric bills are always a concern, no matter how much money I have or how big my lamps are. My high powered lamps will actually use less power than what is normally used over a tank the size of mine. My system is designed to run with 1 return pump and 4 Vortechs and that's it. I like things to be simple and I use gravity wherever I can, like having my refugium mounted above the display to gravity feed rather than have to have another pump. I can get enough flow to run everything with one hammerhead.

Again, with gravity feed for my skimmer, I have zero chance of flooding. Right now I am operating the tank with the skimmer feed closed because I have not installed the skimmer yet. When I open that feed it will only allow more flow, not less, and even if it gets glogged for some reason, the other 2 drains can easily handle anything my pump can dish out. In fact, just one of my drains can handle all the output of my pump. Also, I have installed a waterbug inside the overflow so that if for some reason all the drains become plugged at the same time and the tank starts to over-fill, the waterbug will signal the ACIII to shut down the main pump.

There is IMO nothing inherently safer by having your overflow go into the sump and then use a pump to drive your skimmer. It's not an apples to apples comparison. Many skimmers are designed this way and perform very well. I just went a different route, but it is not in any way more risky for flooding.

 

[starpolyp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6732041#post6732041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Starpolyp, you need to clean your skimmer more often. That riser tube is filthy. I clean mine daily.

That's all I have to add to this thread.

classic. lol. your not supposed to clean your riser tube everyday. lolol if you dont know why, well... w/e

 

[melev]

Keep telling yourself that. :lol:

 

[jnarowe]

Just out of curiousity, are you guys referring to the ETS with the coraline underpants?

 

[melev]

Yes. It's working well, but I think it could work better. Starpolyps, you are used to your skimmer and know its output. Would you be willing to try cleaning the riser tube with a damp sponge each night to see if you note a decrease or increase of skimmate over a one or two week period? I'm a skimmer cleaning fanatic, and recommend cleaning the sludge out of the riser daily - around the time I feed the fish. That timing works well for me.

Here's the link to it again: http://homepage.mac.com/starpolyp/....ctures/2004-07-27 18.10.57 -0700/pskimmer.jpg

 

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6732807#post6732807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Some people refuse to accept the proper conclusion.

I agree, but we are all guilty of it at some point in our lives. And I also knew you weren't talking about Shawn with this statement. Shawn has done nothing but throw his thoughts out on the table to see what others think will work best. He then takes all of that information and forms a new conclusion about what he will do with his tank. That is what this thread is for and that is what he has done with it. I don't remember a single time when Shawn acted stubborn and didn't accept other people's advice in this thread.

And the discussion about feeding the skimmer with raw overflow water... well that is not just my opinion, it is fact. As I said, you can do a few searches in Anthony's forum and learn why this is the most efficient way to do it. Skimmer work no matter how you feed them but if you are wanting to gain every bit of efficiency then you need to look at what the most efficient methods are. Shawn already knows this so there is no need to continue discussing it in his thread.

I think this thread is plugging along nicely. Sometimes discussions can get a bit heated but the outcome is almost always good. It is when people start making stabs at each other that does no good for anyone.

 

[starpolyp]

melev- if i could do that i would. I only get to that tank every two weeks so it isnt possible. I am an aquarium service technician. that is not my aquarium and the owner will deffinately not do that.
I come from the school of thought that an overly clean skimmer is less efficient because you dont have the protein lubricant that keeps the surface tension of the protein bubbles in tact. clean plastic will more likely "pop" the protein bubbles. I have noticed skimmers that are cleaned to often take out a more clear skimmate. yes, it should be cleaned more often than two weeks, but daily isnt the best idea either imo.
i removed my occupation (as imbuggin stated) because at one point, i was getting way to many emails asking questions.

imbuggin- I'm not sure how big the Wild Reef exibit was that i worked on at the Shedd Aquarium, i know that each of the skimmers were over 500 gallons themselves, and there were several of them. coincidentally none of them were drain fed. yes they were R/C. How many 300+ gallon tanks ive set up over the past 15 years you ask. i lost count. sorry

 

[tomasz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6732807#post6732807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Some people refuse to accept the proper conclusion.

ok now that we did clear all the misunderstanding, can we get back to the point? So why can't we use ball valves on drains

 

[starpolyp]

let me simplify what i was trying to say earlier. there seems to be some confusion. Unless 100% of the raw drain water is put through the skimmer(s), which would indeed be ideal, i fail to see the point of doing this if i can add a pump that pushes the same amount of water through the skimmer as the system pump is turning over. In the set-up that asnatLas is proposing, it seems like much of the water will be draining straight into the sump and bypassing the single skimmer. Am i wrong about this? is he going to be pushing all (or close to all) of the drain water through the 1" drain line (after being T'd off)?? doesnt seem likely. in fact, it seems like a small percentage of the drain water will actually be drained through the skimmer. much of the water going straight into the sump will have to wait to be pumped back into the tank, drained, and possibly skimmed again on the next cycle.
so, to avoid a warantee voiding drill job on the tank, it seemed easiest to just pump drive it with a nice big pump.
i fail to see how my suggestion was wrong and deserving of a flame job.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6734194#post6734194 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by starpolyp
melev- if i could do that i would. I only get to that tank every two weeks so it isnt possible. I am an aquarium service technician. that is not my aquarium and the owner will deffinately not do that.
I come from the school of thought that an overly clean skimmer is less efficient because you dont have the protein lubricant that keeps the surface tension of the protein bubbles in tact. clean plastic will more likely "pop" the protein bubbles. I have noticed skimmers that are cleaned to often take out a more clear skimmate. yes, it should be cleaned more often than two weeks, but daily isnt the best idea either imo.
i removed my occupation (as imbuggin stated) because at one point, i was getting way to many emails asking questions.

I didn't know that. Point taken. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[jnarowe]

starpolyp

well I don't think it was really a flame job. Just others offering their opinions. Anyway your points are understood I think. Also your point of view as a professional would be different than someone trying to make the best reef they can themselves. When someone comes to you for design help, you are going to make it as "idiot proof" as possible, which is a good thing really.

For me, I have my 1-1/2" skimmer feed slightly above the two 2" feeds in the hopes that the skimmer will get the most protein saturated water available, and my skimmer is a counter-current air stone design, so there is no pump. I have been toying with a design change though and going with a giant Dart needle wheel recirc like Spazz is building. I realize you think this is the wrong way to do it, but what's done is done and at least it looks really cool!

To get back to Shawn's situation, I am still not sure if there is enough bulkhead to really give him the flow he wants. I sure wouldn't want to be drilling that tank though, so it would be a tough decision ofr me as well. I guess starting at square one, does he have enough volume with the hole he already has?

 

[starpolyp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6732807#post6732807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Some people refuse to accept the proper conclusion.

Just out of curiousity, are you guys referring to the ETS with the coraline underpants?

both comments are rude and non-constructive. shall we call it a passive aggressive flame job?
all i was trying to do was help asnatLas with his plumbing questions and also help him avoid voiding the warantee and possibly damaging his beautiful new aquarium by drilling it. i guess i will avoid doing so in the future.

 

[jnarowe]

Maybe you're right. Since my stroke my sense of humor hasn't been too well received and although I view both of those as jokes I guess they are not coming off as such.

It doesn't appear to me that he has enough capacity built into the tank to keep the water quality at its best, but that is just guess-work on my part. I am not a fan of pushing huge amounts of water through the sump either, so like I said, it would be a tough decision for me.

You really are far more experienced and knowledgable than I am, so I would encourage Shawn to follow your recommendations rather than my own.

 

[asnatlas]

Well I did it...

When you take this...

Plus this...

With one of these...

85422 Silicon Carbide Grinding Stone

You get this...

 

[Travis]

Glad to see you took the initiative to provide some redundancy. You are a brave soul. I'm not sure if I would have had the balls to drill that beautiful glass masterpiece. How thick is that glass and how long did it take for each hole?

Also, what is that material you used to wrap the studs?

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6764186#post6764186 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
Glad to see you took the initiative to provide some redundancy. You are a brave soul. I'm not sure if I would have had the balls to drill that beautiful glass masterpiece. How thick is that glass and how long did it take for each hole?

Also, what is that material you used to wrap the studs?

I started both holes and kept going back and forth while dipping the saw into a cup or water to keep it clean and cool... If any heat built up did occurred then the time it took to switch from each hole should have been enough for it to cool down... It took prob close to 3hrs if not a little longer... 3/4" never seemed so thick in my life until today...

When the basement was finished they use the aluminum studs since there were no load bearing walls...

 

[starpolyp]

nice work

 

[imbuggin]

nice move

nice move

great move not listening to all the advice and most likely voiding you warentee.l:eek1: Best of luck