A corner in Taiwan

[Charl]

Sorry for intruding on your thread shih87 I am trying to find a solution to our problem we having.
As I have the same problem at this stage.

Charl

 

[shih87]

Hi Sahin and shih87

I get the same STN on the base of my corals and my PO4 jumped from 0.02ppm to 0.04ppm in one day, NO3 sit at 0.5

I'm not dosing any Zeo product at the moment I get the idea that the rocks and substrate leach something
I must admit that I dosed CV but are not sure if that cause the brown slime outbreak as I only dose it once a week
On my side corals lighten up and now I lose colour
I will do a 20% water change and post my result back to you.
My brown slime issue started the same @shih87 and now it's everywhere so then I cut back on the start3 from 0.3ml to 0.1ml and still no positive results
I wonder if I must try coral snow with Zeobak and see if there will be a change

What do you guys think?
BTW, I notice if I dose AA the brown slime spread more so I will not suggest you dose that now

Charl

It is a dilemma between STN and brown slime to me... For STN, I would continue dosing AA to strong my coral, but it may introduce brown slime as you mentioned. I don't know what is the best to you, but my plan is making sure my STN stop, SPS get strong again, and then fix brown slime issue.

I have once dose snow for couple weeks for slime issue, but it does not help on my case. However, I heard many reefers received good resolve from snow.

BTW, my PO4 now drop to 0.03 ppm.

Are you running the Zeovit stones? If so, check the flow through the reactor. Zeovit recommends one/off cycle for PO4 reduction. Maybe the flow is too fast causing the paleness and STN?

Hi Charl....Do you have UV issue on your light? Just a wild guess for SPS paleness..

Hi Sahin and shih87,

Thanks for the info @Sahin I restrict the flow on the reactor to 360l/h for my size tank

I found this on the web about the brown slime @shih87 can you confirm if this is what you get in your tank

Here's the link:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates-and-the-lessons-i-learned

Thanks Charl

I think it is same stuff, but mine still remain on frag holder only.

Sorry for intruding on your thread shih87 I am trying to find a solution to our problem we having.
As I have the same problem at this stage.

Charl

You are welcome to further discuss as many as you like here. I love to discuss with reefers in forum, so we can grow our skills together. At this moments, I only treat my brown slime as a result of bacteria imbalance, so I added new live rock as mentioned earlier. Once my STN issue resulted, I may reduce KZ additive and light black out to control brown slime. Maybe Sahin has other idea here.....

 

[Charl]

Thanks for the input shih87 I will do a water change tonight to get the tank stable maybe sahin can give us more advice...
Maybe you have a good idea to dose AA to get the corals strong before the long battle with the brown slime

 

[Charl]

I don't think I have a UV problem with my lights I think that I used to much activated carbon so I stopped the reactor now that is the other reason why I will do a big water change tonight

 

[sahin]

I think it is same stuff, but mine still remain on frag holder only.

Is the frag rack new?

Some plastics can leach phosphate or other chemicals thereby some nuisance algae or brown slime can grow.

If the brown slime is only on the frag rack, I would take it out and wash thoroughly in HOT water and then place in the tank and see what happens.

You dont want it to spread around the tank.

Shih87, I agree with you and would treat the SPS until all STN stops.

As for the brown slime :

It can be two types:

1. Dinoflagellate (the stuff Charl linked earlier)

2. Cyanobacteria

Number 2 is easy fix. 1 is very hard to eradicate.

Can you tell me if brown slime disappears during the night ie after the lights go off and returns in the morning? If YES, this is a strong sign it is some kind of Dinoflagellate.

If it doesnt, it is very likely it is Cyanno.

I had both in the past.

I'll most more if you can confirm the disappearance effect I asked above.

 

[Charl]

sahin if I may ask how did you get rid of the Dinoflagellate? As I think that is what I have in my tank

 

[sahin]

sahin if I may ask how did you get rid of the Dinoflagellate? As I think that is what I have in my tank

You are not going to like what I will say. I didnt get rid of them...I had to tear down my tank.

BUT I used most of the same rocks (kept the rocks alive) in my current setup. I dealt with it by keeping the liverock in a dark container for around a month. I dosed bacteria as well to outcompete the Dinos and as they die off to take their place.

The rocks are in my tank and its been 1 year plus and I have no more Dino issues.

However, as in that article, if you have Dinos, you can try different things to battle them.

1. Increased pH by dosing lots of Kalk
2. Dark periods (5 days at times)
3. Dose Hydrogen peroxide

I looked the strain of Dinos I had under a microscope and took photos and then a Microbiologist on this forum helped me ID the Dinos.

The above solutions works for some people. Doesnt work for others. It all depends on which type of Dinos you have.

I suggest you read some of the Dino threads on this forum to become familiar with them and then battle it out.

Dont give up. Even if it takes a year. As long as your SPS are OK then I think as the system matures, they will die out eventually. I wasnt patient and so I restarted the tank.

I got further questions for you:

1. Do the snails eat this brown slime?

2. Have the snails been dying in your tank since the brown slime appeared?

If the answer is YES to 1 and NO to 2, then I dont think you have Dinos. Most Dinos are toxic and snails end up dying after eating the brown slime.

 

[Charl]

Thank you so much for the reply will do the water change and vacuum as much out as I can for now
Well I have a sock in the sump, with lights on I get a very strong smell do you think I must run the activated carbon Reactor or leave it off for now
Thanks for the help my friend

Charl

 

[Charl]

sahin if I dose special blend will it do any harm if I give it a try and do you think it will work?

 

[sahin]

sahin if I dose special blend will it do any harm if I give it a try and do you think it will work?

I've read of some reports of this product being successful at eradicating dinos. So give it a try. I would give it a try and also combine one of the other methods, such as lights out for 3 days to really attack the Dinos.

 

[shih87]

Is the frag rack new?

Some plastics can leach phosphate or other chemicals thereby some nuisance algae or brown slime can grow.

If the brown slime is only on the frag rack, I would take it out and wash thoroughly in HOT water and then place in the tank and see what happens.

You dont want it to spread around the tank.

Shih87, I agree with you and would treat the SPS until all STN stops.

As for the brown slime :

It can be two types:

1. Dinoflagellate (the stuff Charl linked earlier)

2. Cyanobacteria

Number 2 is easy fix. 1 is very hard to eradicate.

Can you tell me if brown slime disappears during the night ie after the lights go off and returns in the morning? If YES, this is a strong sign it is some kind of Dinoflagellate.

If it doesnt, it is very likely it is Cyanno.

I had both in the past.

I'll most more if you can confirm the disappearance effect I asked above.

Hi Sahin,

I did not see your reply earlier enough to check when light off, but this morning (with room light, but reef light is off), I can see my brown slime stuff about the same as light on. The rack is not new, but I will check the possibility you mentioned.

It is a busy office hours now in Taiwan:headwalls:, I will reply the reset later and thanks.

 

[shih87]

I don't think I have a UV problem with my lights I think that I used to much activated carbon so I stopped the reactor now that is the other reason why I will do a big water change tonight

I see. Now I know that you have same carbon over dosing issue like I did. I think sahin is right about my carbon dosing in his early reply, because one of my friends use same method as me did on GAC and have similar issue like us (color lighten up and STN). I also pretty confident that stop carbon dosing temporary and water change help. I stop carbon dosing since last Friday and did a continue three days 10% water changes already. The STN seems stop but color, I am still waiting for noticeable change.

 

[Charl]

Hi shih87,

Ok so I decided to dose some microbe-lift special blend last night and left the skimmer of for the whole night, this morning although it's to soon to say my substrate is white with a patch here and there of brown algae rock nice and clean for now will wait for midday and then reply back to you

In connection with the GAC I decided to stop the reactor for a week and do some good water changes and see if the corals colour up again

Thanks Charl

 

[shih87]

Hi shih87,

Ok so I decided to dose some microbe-lift special blend last night and left the skimmer of for the whole night, this morning although it's to soon to say my substrate is white with a patch here and there of brown algae rock nice and clean for now will wait for midday and then reply back to you

In connection with the GAC I decided to stop the reactor for a week and do some good water changes and see if the corals colour up again

Thanks Charl

Any update on your coral after above actions taken?

My STN is stop and SPS slightly turn color back (not sure true or just my feeling, though) after stop GAC and reduce light to 70%. My PO4 continue drop and now is 0.02 ppm. I may put only 20 g GAC back and start to increase light next week. Or maybe too early!?
Regarding my brown slime, if sahib is right, then it is cyano since it always there regardless light on or off. I hope my new live rock help to improve bacteria balance. I might also brush and clean my SPS rack to see if brown slime issue slow down...I also did a 10% water change continues 3 days this week, BTW.

 

[Charl]

I dosed the special blend no change water clean but the slime came back with lights on so I definitely sit with Dinoflagellate. So yesterday I did a big water change and start with a 3 day light blackout hope the corals will pull through. With the lights out period I will dose AA and continue to dose start3 and zeobak will test my water parameters and post back.

What do you think?

Thanks Charl

 

[sahin]

Any update on your coral after above actions taken?

My STN is stop and SPS slightly turn color back (not sure true or just my feeling, though) after stop GAC and reduce light to 70%. My PO4 continue drop and now is 0.02 ppm. I may put only 20 g GAC back and start to increase light next week. Or maybe too early!?
Regarding my brown slime, if sahib is right, then it is cyano since it always there regardless light on or off. I hope my new live rock help to improve bacteria balance. I might also brush and clean my SPS rack to see if brown slime issue slow down...I also did a 10% water change continues 3 days this week, BTW.

Good to hear your STN has stopped. Give it another 5 days before putting any GAC. That should give the acros plenty of time to start recovery/restarting tissue growth.

I strongly believe you might have Cyano...of course I could be completely wrong, but with your tank I think it is just a bacterial imbalance like you believe. I think once your STN issue is COMPLETELY gone, resume the GAC and water changes, along with the rocks you added should get rid of the brown stuff within 2 weeks.

I dosed the special blend no change water clean but the slime came back with lights on so I definitely sit with Dinoflagellate. So yesterday I did a big water change and start with a 3 day light blackout hope the corals will pull through. With the lights out period I will dose AA and continue to dose start3 and zeobak will test my water parameters and post back.

What do you think?

Thanks Charl

Unfortunately, I strongly believe you have Dinos. Sorry my friend.

But be strong and be determined to beat them.

Here is a plan for you: (you can change the plan to how you think is best for your tank).

1. When Dinos are at their MAX, this will be towards to end of the evening when the lights have run for at least 5-6 hours, SIPHON OUT as much as possible. THIS IS DAY 1.

2. Dose Special Blend. Make sure your tank is AERATED properly.

3. No lights for the next 3 days. DAYS 2, 3, 4

4. IF you have UV filter unit or buy one if possible, run this with SLOW flow to kill free floating Dinos. These Dino bastards can swim and running a high power UV unit with 1 day after allowing the Special Blend to run through the system will hopefully allow the Bacteria in the Special Blend to take over and shift the balance towards those Bacteria and away from the Dinos. DAYS 3 &4. I know Zeovit say not to RUN UV but in this case because of DINOs, we can run for the time being.

5. Day 5, start the lights back but only running 1 hour, 2 hours day 6, 3 hours day 7.

6. MONITOR you Ca and ALKALINITY during this time and ensure it doesn go over the limit. It most likely will rise as the lack of light means no growth on the SPS corals.

7. If the Dinos start to come back, repeat again after giving the Corals 4-5 complete days or rest.

Each time you do this, the Dinos should become weaker and weaker.

Also if you combine tools such as High pH with Kalk then you increase your chances of beating Dinos.

You can turn on light for 10 minutes etc to feed the fish. But no longer than that.

Keep an eye on the SPS; use a torch to look at the flesh/tissue of the SPS to make sure they are ok and not STN'ing etc. If any STN starts, turn the lights back on slowly and allow them to recover before trying again.

 

[Charl]

Good to hear your STN has stopped. Give it another 5 days before putting any GAC. That should give the acros plenty of time to start recovery/restarting tissue growth.

I strongly believe you might have Cyano...of course I could be completely wrong, but with your tank I think it is just a bacterial imbalance like you believe. I think once your STN issue is COMPLETELY gone, resume the GAC and water changes, along with the rocks you added should get rid of the brown stuff within 2 weeks.



Unfortunately, I strongly believe you have Dinos. Sorry my friend.

But be strong and be determined to beat them.

Here is a plan for you: (you can change the plan to how you think is best for your tank).

1. When Dinos are at their MAX, this will be towards to end of the evening when the lights have run for at least 5-6 hours, SIPHON OUT as much as possible. THIS IS DAY 1.

2. Dose Special Blend. Make sure your tank is AERATED properly.

3. No lights for the next 3 days. DAYS 2, 3, 4

4. IF you have UV filter unit or buy one if possible, run this with SLOW flow to kill free floating Dinos. These Dino bastards can swim and running a high power UV unit with 1 day after allowing the Special Blend to run through the system will hopefully allow the Bacteria in the Special Blend to take over and shift the balance towards those Bacteria and away from the Dinos. DAYS 3 &4. I know Zeovit say not to RUN UV but in this case because of DINOs, we can run for the time being.

5. Day 5, start the lights back but only running 1 hour, 2 hours day 6, 3 hours day 7.

6. MONITOR you Ca and ALKALINITY during this time and ensure it doesn go over the limit. It most likely will rise as the lack of light means no growth on the SPS corals.

7. If the Dinos start to come back, repeat again after giving the Corals 4-5 complete days or rest.

Each time you do this, the Dinos should become weaker and weaker.

Also if you combine tools such as High pH with Kalk then you increase your chances of beating Dinos.

You can turn on light for 10 minutes etc to feed the fish. But no longer than that.

Keep an eye on the SPS; use a torch to look at the flesh/tissue of the SPS to make sure they are ok and not STN'ing etc. If any STN starts, turn the lights back on slowly and allow them to recover before trying again.

Sahin thank you so much for the good info my friend, I will give it a try

 

[shih87]

Good to hear your STN has stopped. Give it another 5 days before putting any GAC. That should give the acros plenty of time to start recovery/restarting tissue growth.

I strongly believe you might have Cyano...of course I could be completely wrong, but with your tank I think it is just a bacterial imbalance like you believe. I think once your STN issue is COMPLETELY gone, resume the GAC and water changes, along with the rocks you added should get rid of the brown stuff within 2 weeks.



Unfortunately, I strongly believe you have Dinos. Sorry my friend.

But be strong and be determined to beat them.

Here is a plan for you: (you can change the plan to how you think is best for your tank).

1. When Dinos are at their MAX, this will be towards to end of the evening when the lights have run for at least 5-6 hours, SIPHON OUT as much as possible. THIS IS DAY 1.

2. Dose Special Blend. Make sure your tank is AERATED properly.

3. No lights for the next 3 days. DAYS 2, 3, 4

4. IF you have UV filter unit or buy one if possible, run this with SLOW flow to kill free floating Dinos. These Dino bastards can swim and running a high power UV unit with 1 day after allowing the Special Blend to run through the system will hopefully allow the Bacteria in the Special Blend to take over and shift the balance towards those Bacteria and away from the Dinos. DAYS 3 &4. I know Zeovit say not to RUN UV but in this case because of DINOs, we can run for the time being.

5. Day 5, start the lights back but only running 1 hour, 2 hours day 6, 3 hours day 7.

6. MONITOR you Ca and ALKALINITY during this time and ensure it doesn go over the limit. It most likely will rise as the lack of light means no growth on the SPS corals.

7. If the Dinos start to come back, repeat again after giving the Corals 4-5 complete days or rest.

Each time you do this, the Dinos should become weaker and weaker.

Also if you combine tools such as High pH with Kalk then you increase your chances of beating Dinos.

You can turn on light for 10 minutes etc to feed the fish. But no longer than that.

Keep an eye on the SPS; use a torch to look at the flesh/tissue of the SPS to make sure they are ok and not STN'ing etc. If any STN starts, turn the lights back on slowly and allow them to recover before trying again.

Wow.... these detail steps must came from real practice.

Charl, I am sure you will out of woods soon with these advices.

 

[Charl]

Wow.... these detail steps must came from real practice.

Charl, I am sure you will out of woods soon with these advices.

shih87, yes I must agree awesome advice will follow and post back to you guys

I hope so shih87 connected my kalk reactor to push the ph higher plus the light blackout dosed special blend as well, I skim wet and running two skimmers on the system now so all thing must go well now :spin3:

 

[sahin]

shih87, yes I must agree awesome advice will follow and post back to you guys

I hope so shih87 connected my kalk reactor to push the ph higher plus the light blackout dosed special blend as well, I skim wet and running two skimmers on the system now so all thing must go well now :spin3:

Keep a close eye on the pH and Alk. You dont want neither to go beyond the limits.

Hope it goes well.