A corner in Taiwan

Charl said:
Hi shih87,

Sorry for the late reply been so busy with work, I dose special blend to sort out the bacterial imbalance in the tank plus it works well for algae

Thanks Charl
Click to expand...

Charl said:
Ok switch the lights on today water crystal clear but two of my corals RTN and die don't know what to do any more, will test water parameters today and post back for now no slime on substrate all clean but time will tell.

Then a question how long must I run my light for (all the lights) 1 hour 2 hours please help, I switch the UV off for now. Corals not to happy lost colour can I dose something or must I just leave the dosing for now. Can I do a small water change?

Thanks for the help my friends.
Charl,
Click to expand...

Charl said:
Hi sahin,

Thanks for the reply my friend.
How long can I run my lights for?
And must I dose start3
All lights run for a hour now no brown slime at the moment all clean

Thanks Charl
Click to expand...

Charl said:
Thank you for the great advice sahin will do and post the result

Charl,
Click to expand...

Charl said:
sahin, I feel bad to post my problems on this thread will start new one can you please reply on my new thread I will really appreciate it.

Sorry for intruding on your thread it's very rude of me shih87 will still post on your thread and reply as I go along and see if I can help your situation with your tank hope things go well.

Thank you my friend for your help here on your thread shih87

Charl
Click to expand...

Charl said:
Hi sihan,
Please see new thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22496985#post22496985

Thanks Charl
Click to expand...

Hi Charl,

Don't worry about it, but good to see a new link to put us more focus. I will reply more on your new link as well, but I think sahin provided is very professional and will work!!!

Regarding my tank, it is either turn to dinos or it always is. The way I can tell it is dinos is it start to have little bubble on top of the brown slime stuff. I will definitely closely monitor your progress to decide what is my next step.


sahin said:
If the corals are not happy at this moment, it is not wise to attempt any treatment to battle the brown slime.

For now, you need to find out why the corals STN'd. Give the corals about a week. When you notice recovery, then you can resume treatment.

The treatment I described wont cause healthy corals to STN/RTN. I would also cut back on the Start3, also check the flow through the Zeolite reactor and decrease flow a little if you can.

Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

sahin said:
Also, feed the fishes a bit more. Try to avoid too many Zeo additives. Try and carry out a small water change too.

Main thing is to make sure the flow through the Zeovit reactor isnt too fast and that the Start3 dose is kept low for a week.
Click to expand...

sahin said:
If you are having STN issues, I would bring the lights back up to full light over the next 3 days. So today run 3 hours, 5 hours next day and full light the day after.

Start3; reduce amount to 2/3. Just to allow the corals better chance of recovery.
Click to expand...

sahin said:
Can you please post the following details:

1. Tank + Sump volume in Gallons (US)

2. Amount of Zeolite?

3. Speed of flow through the Zeolite reactor? how many gallons per hour?

4. Dose of Start3?

5. Dose of Zeobac?

6. Dosing anything else like Zeofood?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi sahin,

My STN is sure stop. I will give it another week and then start trying dinos treatment... Just FYI... Will keep you updated.

Cheers,

Ink said:
Hi Shih87.
I've just read all the thread.
Your tank is really beatiful.
IMO, the problems You are facing at in the last times are due to too low nutrients, in particular too low nitrogen. STN, cyano, brown film algae are all expressions of the same problem.
Then ,by my viewpoint, PO4 remain high just because there is not enough N to make bacteria grow and consume P too.

There are many ways to increase N, but all are dangerous if made too fast and increase organics too fast because lead to quick grow of pathogenic algae and bacteria and cause fast consuming of microelements.
You can reduce light duration. You can add fishes. You can increase food (I would use mainly frozen mysis in addition to Your food, it has a higher N/P ratio than other foods). You can dose KNO3 or NaNO3: I think it is safe, probably safer than risking raising too quickly organics; I know some people doing that with excellent results.

About testing.
I advice You to use salifert NO3 test and try to have a slightly pink colour looking at the vial from the side (between 0 and 0,2ppm I mean).

Salifert K test is great. I checked 3 different batches of tests with two reference solutions made by myself with [K] 370 and 430ppm and results were precise. I can also say test remains reliable even whent it's 6 months old.

About Hanna PO4 photometer, I can suggest You a trick about HI93713, which is the one I own; I don't know if it will work on others model. I use Tunze/Elos Hi res/Rowa/Deltec reagents instead of Hanna ones. I simply put the reagents in the 10ml Hanna vial (5 drops reagents 1 and 1 spoon reagents 2), 3 minutes gentle hand-mixing (You mustn't trap bubbles in the liquid) and then immediate and 3 minutes delayed reading by photometer. Results are always precise and reliable. You can repeat 10 times the test (I mean sampling again water from tank and new reagents) and You will read the same results, differently from what You obtain from Hanna reagents. Finally I can say I test this too with 3 reference solution, always made by myself, with [PO4] 1,2ppm, 0,12ppm and 0,03ppm and results were exactly the expected ones.

About Iron testing, I hope You know You have to test it just a couple of hours You administer Iron and it is enough to find 0,05ppm. If You test it after one day, You will read 0ppm because all organics quickly bind iron falsely showing You it is zero and You could be wrongly induced to give other iron (I already made this mistake in the past and hope to avoid it to others). You can also read GlennF threads: He uses to test it and regularly administer it and give some information about that.

Hope it could help and You could solve your problem. Ask for any doubt.

Luca
Click to expand...

Hi Luca,

Your suggestions are priceless. In fact, I heard someone mentioned similar things on Hanna (use different brand name reagents get better results) and Iron test, but never able to find other articles to confirm. Thanks.

Regarding N/P, you clear what I missing, I think I gonna to share your message to Taiwan reefers like what I did for sahib and charl's inputs....

That remind me I probably should not always stay in SPS forum, I should visit Chemistry forum more often. I saw many of your articles there, which are very interested and valued.
 
shih87 said:
Hi Charl,

Don't worry about it, but good to see a new link to put us more focus. I will reply more on your new link as well, but I think sahin provided is very professional and will work!!!

Regarding my tank, it is either turn to dinos or it always is. The way I can tell it is dinos is it start to have little bubble on top of the brown slime stuff. I will definitely closely monitor your progress to decide what is my next step.

Hi shih87,

Keep a close eye on them as mine started the same way brown with air bubbles and then it spreads all over the tank

Charl










Hi sahin,

My STN is sure stop. I will give it another week and then start trying dinos treatment... Just FYI... Will keep you updated.

Cheers,



Hi Luca,

Your suggestions are priceless. In fact, I heard someone mentioned similar things on Hanna (use different brand name reagents get better results) and Iron test, but never able to find other articles to confirm. Thanks.

Regarding N/P, you clear what I missing, I think I gonna to share your message to Taiwan reefers like what I did for sahib and charl's inputs....

That remind me I probably should not always stay in SPS forum, I should visit Chemistry forum more often. I saw many of your articles there, which are very interested and valued.
Click to expand...
 
Hi shih87,

Keep a close eye on them as mine started the same way brown with air bubbles and then it spreads all over the tank

Charl
 
ReefNate said:
shih87 I have a question where did you get those small dosing jugs you use?
Click to expand...

You meant this one?
picture.php


I purchased it here...http://www.muji.tw/item_detail.aspx?CatID=17&PdtID=95&CodeID=4547315853854&NumID=0

Charl said:
Hi shih87,

Keep a close eye on them as mine started the same way brown with air bubbles and then it spreads all over the tank

Charl
Click to expand...

Oh my.... Thanks for the notice. I will keep my eye on it, maybe shorten my light period now first....

Ink said:
Shih87, I'm happy my suggestions are useful.

Luca
Click to expand...

How you think about this article? Reefers in Taiwan are discussing about it.
 
sahin said:
I used google translate:
=====
With an excess of carbon may cause anti-two phenomena ...
1. The water absorption of organic matter in water cause water too fast profit. This will cause the color fades even bony STN
2 yellow pigment will absorb too much water, too much water thoroughly, then indirectly, because suddenly the lights are too bright and bony injury caused by the color fades

For hairy brown algae, algae may be (dino), there may be bacteria (cyano) ...
If it is algae, not before the flood, algae-eating snails available Dian Dian hermit crab fish eat algae or other biological control.

If the bacteria, there may be additions in the "quantity" imbalance.
If KZ, plus the following additives may produce too much coffee mud (Brown Slime). Note, in this case should be a fungus ...
Amino Acid LPS,
Amino Acid HC,
Sponge Power,
Zeofood7,
Zeostart2,
Coral Vitalizer &
K-Balance Potassium (Strong)

However ZeoBac overdose, my observations will produce a thin layer, you can see through the mud ....

Another aquarists Charl ... suspect he also caused by excessive carbon anti bony color fades and STN ... he also KZ, and coffee sludge generated ...

We agreed that ... STN and coffee sludge treatment must first be separated, and STN disposal priority.
The following is the treatment of ...
Carbon Anti stopped first, then slowly add back a little (after at least two weeks)
Continuous change the water, but use no water changes to avoid another level shock bony injury
Strengthen bones strong AA so hard against STN

Then talk about coffee mud problem ..
If only coffee grown in the mud off the only station, check off only if the new station. Some units will be released only broken PO4

Coffee is judged algae or bacteria mud, mud can of coffee at night performance, if almost night and day, that bacteria may be larger. On the contrary, it is a big chance of algae. More difficult to deal with algae, bacteria is relatively simple.


If the algae ... (First breath, do not panic, Be Strong), and then ...
Basically, three things can beat it
1. Dang added Kalk to improve PH
2 matt
3 addition of hydrogen peroxide

If the detail,

1. Day 1 ... other physical methods first try to remove the siphon
2 Add special partition (MICROBE-LIFT / Special Blend)
3. Day 2,3,4 matt
4. Day 5 lights for one hour, Day 6 lights two hours, Day 7 lights three o'clock
5 due to changes in lighting, attention stable Ca and KH
6 If the above steps, algae and students back to the bone after four Dian five days rest, repeat the above disposal
======
Click to expand...

That little write up has some great information in it. Well done guys!!

Shih, any chance you could post your link (this thread or via PM) to your tank in Taiwan forum as I can't view your photos here on RC for some reason. It has been like this for sometime.

Thanks
 
Shih87, I read that article and it is very interesting because it seems inherent to my actual situation. I'm continuosly discussing its contents with my best friend. Among the various problems I have, my montipora foliosa are exactly like the one showed in the photo in the the case of lack of iron.
So I've begun adding iron and microelements in the hope to see something happen as last chance, because I really can't explain what is happening in my tank. I think in the next few days I'll see if that's my real problem.

I also thought about that when I wrote my advices to You, but I also think You already add many zeovit elements constantly and You should not be in the situation with lack of some mineral.

I'm also beginning to believe it could be safer to add directly nitrate instead of suddenly change nutrients load. My friend have done that and its aquarium is improving, while I added lot of food and made NO3 and PO4 slightly increase with a lot of problems and I've lost many corals without a clear explanation.
 
v1...rotate said:
That little write up has some great information in it. Well done guys!!

Shih, any chance you could post your link (this thread or via PM) to your tank in Taiwan forum as I can't view your photos here on RC for some reason. It has been like this for sometime.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi Andrew,

Hummm.... Still having issue to see my photos! I thought I fix it. Let me check again and sorry.

Anyway, here is my link at PH8.4 http://www.ph84.idv.tw/vbb/showthread.php?t=148933

Please join us and give some comments. We accept all languages..

Charl said:
Shih it will help if you can cut the light period to not more than 5 hours a day

Charl,
Click to expand...

Noted.. I was light on for 6 hours last couple days, let me turn off a bit more. The KH will really affectted by light turn off, I forget about it the first two days and KH bump up from 7.5 t0 8.2!!!:eek2:

Ink said:
Shih87, I read that article and it is very interesting because it seems inherent to my actual situation. I'm continuosly discussing its contents with my best friend. Among the various problems I have, my montipora foliosa are exactly like the one showed in the photo in the the case of lack of iron.
So I've begun adding iron and microelements in the hope to see something happen as last chance, because I really can't explain what is happening in my tank. I think in the next few days I'll see if that's my real problem.

I also thought about that when I wrote my advices to You, but I also think You already add many zeovit elements constantly and You should not be in the situation with lack of some mineral.

I'm also beginning to believe it could be safer to add directly nitrate instead of suddenly change nutrients load. My friend have done that and its aquarium is improving, while I added lot of food and made NO3 and PO4 slightly increase with a lot of problems and I've lost many corals without a clear explanation.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think it is a very good article and the material make a lot of sense.

BTW, what do you mean "it could be safer to add directly nitrate instead of suddenly change nutrients load".... Can you share how you add directly nitrate? Do you mean dose KNO3 such thing? One reefer in Taiwan just continue add 1g KNO3 for three days and post his picture, I would say at least no bad affect and color seems darker as he expected.
 
I guess nitrate could be safer than increase organic load because organic makes grow a lot of creatures that could lead to consume many othr things like micronutrients. Nitrate maybe lead to grow only bacteria and algae with less issues.
Personally I've never tried dosing nitrate, but my best friend does it. He prepares a solution with RO water and KNO3 and dose it continuosly during the day via peristaltic pump. He has already been doing this for some weeks with good results. He started with KNO3 because after light reduction (from 10h to 6h of full light) and increase of feeding to fishes, He couldn't increase his nitrate level. I think He administer a quantity that increase 0,2 - 0,3ppm per day. However He started slowly and increased guided by NO3 salifert test results. After many weeks He finally reached NO3 0,3ppm. Coral grow has increased significantly.
I think when PO4 are detectable or even raising progressively while NO3 are undetectable, with great probability there is a nitrogen limitation that doesn't allow bacteria to grow and consume P too.

Luca
 
Ink said:
I guess nitrate could be safer than increase organic load because organic makes grow a lot of creatures that could lead to consume many othr things like micronutrients. Nitrate maybe lead to grow only bacteria and algae with less issues.
Personally I've never tried dosing nitrate, but my best friend does it. He prepares a solution with RO water and KNO3 and dose it continuosly during the day via peristaltic pump. He has already been doing this for some weeks with good results. He started with KNO3 because after light reduction (from 10h to 6h of full light) and increase of feeding to fishes, He couldn't increase his nitrate level. I think He administer a quantity that increase 0,2 - 0,3ppm per day. However He started slowly and increased guided by NO3 salifert test results. After many weeks He finally reached NO3 0,3ppm. Coral grow has increased significantly.
I think when PO4 are detectable or even raising progressively while NO3 are undetectable, with great probability there is a nitrogen limitation that doesn't allow bacteria to grow and consume P too.

Luca
Click to expand...

Luca,

How did the addition of a Nitrate source affect SPS colours?

Thanks.
 
From what I read it isn't univocal. If the coral are starving due to nitrogen deficiency, growth improve and so do colors, meaning they become more intense, full and brilliant.

Here on RC there are various users adding NO3 and we often see nitrate level is not directly linked to coral colors. I saw many tanks with 1 - 2ppm NO3 with fantastic colors, while others with 0,2 or even zero with awful colors. IMO corals colors are most directly linked to health and growth then anything else.

Actually I have all correct and stable parameters (NO3 0,2ppm, PO4 0,02ppm, Ca 420, Kh 8, Mg 1300, salinity 35psu, temp 24°C, K 400) but I can't understand why all my SPS have no growth and are dark as the night and someone die. Just to show that colours aren't linked to inorganics level.
 
Ink said:
From what I read it isn't univocal. If the coral are starving due to nitrogen deficiency, growth improve and so do colors, meaning they become more intense, full and brilliant.

Here on RC there are various users adding NO3 and we often see nitrate level is not directly linked to coral colors. I saw many tanks with 1 - 2ppm NO3 with fantastic colors, while others with 0,2 or even zero with awful colors. IMO corals colors are most directly linked to health and growth then anything else.

Actually I have all correct and stable parameters (NO3 0,2ppm, PO4 0,02ppm, Ca 420, Kh 8, Mg 1300, salinity 35psu, temp 24°C, K 400) but I can't understand why all my SPS have no growth and are dark as the night and someone die. Just to show that colours aren't linked to inorganics level.
Click to expand...

Appreciate you input. I saw some on your coral photos (when things were going well) and you are a very skilled reefkeeper.

Perhaps it is something in the water? Like a contaminant?
 
sahin, I think I really tried everything and tested everything. 2 only possibilities remains IMO: contaminant in RO water, but conductivity is 0,0mcS; a sort of new maturation due to nutrients unbalance, as before, low probability because I did same things in the past without any problem... I really, really don't know and don't know many reefer more skilled than me.
Now I'm adding Iron and other microelements to see if they lack (caulerpa can't grow anymore). If I'll see no improvements, I think I have used all my bullets.

Thanks.

Luca
 
My STN seems complete resolved, but still remain two issues here. 1) Some SPS color still lighten up, and 2) brown slime issue still exist, although no growing (my light is turn on only 5 hours a day now).

I plan to leave brown slime issue there as long as it only affect my frag rack, and will start find way increase NO3 to 0.25 ppm. Let me know if you suggest differently.

Here is a whole tank photo took three days ago (3/2)... Many new live rock on sand bed which I hope can improve bacteria balance a bit.
picture.php
 
Hi Shih87,
Hope thing go well there my friend.
Can you post a pic of the algae on the frag rack.
Do you run a full Zeovit tank?

Thanks Charl
 
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