A corner in Taiwan

[Ink]

shih87, IMO if You will increase NO3 to 0,25, brown slime will go away.

I guess live rocks added helped adding organic matter that increased nutrients, rather than balancing bacteria.

If You reduced light period, You should see inorganics increase. After a week, if You will have zero NO3, You could try raising progressively your light fixture, I mean 3 - 5cm per week. Otherway, You could dose KNO3 or NaNO3. GlennF dose it once a day manually (at least so He writes).

 

[sahin]

shih87: Do you run the full Zeovit system? If so adding nitrate goes against the Zeovit methodology. Have the Zeovit guys on the Zeo forum helped? Maybe ask them?

However, you may add it, to see if it helps. Luca knows better about this than me.

 

[shih87]

Hi Shih87,
Hope thing go well there my friend.
Can you post a pic of the algae on the frag rack.
Do you run a full Zeovit tank?

Thanks Charl

Yes, I think I run a full Zeovit tank, except I add TMC A-/K+ solution.

Here are my rack photo. I think the brown slime is reduce after I change light period, but a zeeom-in you can still see they exist.

shih87, IMO if You will increase NO3 to 0,25, brown slime will go away.

I guess live rocks added helped adding organic matter that increased nutrients, rather than balancing bacteria.

If You reduced light period, You should see inorganics increase. After a week, if You will have zero NO3, You could try raising progressively your light fixture, I mean 3 - 5cm per week. Otherway, You could dose KNO3 or NaNO3. GlennF dose it once a day manually (at least so He writes).

My NO3 is and was undetectable a while in regardless new live rock add, only PO4 increase first but then it drop to 0.02ppm again. Do you suggest I keep light as 5 hours (which is much less then I use to), and still raise my light fixture?

I am still evaluating how KNO3 positively affect SPS color, but do you suggest that raise light fixture will have similar result as dose KNO3 which bring SPS a bit darker?

shih87: Do you run the full Zeovit system? If so adding nitrate goes against the Zeovit methodology. Have the Zeovit guys on the Zeo forum helped? Maybe ask them?

However, you may add it, to see if it helps. Luca knows better about this than me.

There is one guy use KNO3 in Taiwan and post a picture 3 days apart, but I can't tell the darker color (on right side) is due to KNO3 or camera under different light source...See below

 

[sahin]

shih87:

I'm not sure from those two photos. The blue background on the 2nd pic looks slightly darker than in the 1st pic. Also there is a bright area right at the bottom of the frag on 1st pic..this is not there on the 2nd pic...hence I think the stronger appearance of colouration is coming from different settings than the coral becoming deeper in colour.

 

[Ink]

shih87, also if You didn't detedt any NO3 after adding live rock, with them You added organic material, that means nitrogen and phosphorous.

Raising your fixture will reduce light power and will surely reduce organic/inorganic nutrients consumption, but it's hard to preview the intensity of the effect, maybe enough, exactly as insufficient or exaggerated.

I never tried KNO3 personally, but in the last weeks I heard about some people who began using it and they were affected by too low nutrients and problems similar to Yours. They are all happy and enthusiast. KNO3 has the enormous advantage to finely control the dose. It's You deciding what NO3 level have in Your tank.

In Your place I wouldn't reduce the light period under 5 hours. If You increase it You will probably cause growth increase and nutrients demand, so I wouldn't do that now.
Always in your place, having PO4 detectable, with NO3 undetectable, I would like to balance them and the best way I think is to dose KNO3, because I don't know any other safe way to selectively increase N.

Changing topic, I finally begin see some improvements in my tank and this is due to microelements administration. So I confirm to all of You the importance of them especially when nutrients increase and lot of organisms consume quickly everything isn't replenished.

Luca

 

[sahin]

I finally begin see some improvements in my tank and this is due to microelements administration. So I confirm to all of You the importance of them especially when nutrients increase and lot of organisms consume quickly everything isn't replenished.

Luca

Luca,

Can you list which micronutrients you added and by using which products?

Thanks.

 

[Ink]

sahin, I think iron made the difference but I can't prove it. BTW I added 25 ml brightwell replenish (max dose adviced for my tank per week).
25ml Redsea color C (iron, increase iron of 0,05ppm) day 1, 25ml day 2, 12ml day 3, today 3ml (dose per day on the base of Ca consumption should be actually 1,5ml, but growth is starting back and Ca consumption is increasing).
Redsea Color B (iodine) 4ml day 1, 4ml day 2 (4ml increase iodine of 0,02ppm), then 3ml on alternate day basis (dose per day should be always 1,5ml).
This is what I am giving.

 

[sahin]

sahin, I think iron made the difference but I can't prove it. BTW I added 25 ml brightwell replenish (max dose adviced for my tank per week).
25ml Redsea color C (iron, increase iron of 0,05ppm) day 1, 25ml day 2, 12ml day 3, today 3ml (dose per day on the base of Ca consumption should be actually 1,5ml, but growth is starting back and Ca consumption is increasing).
Redsea Color B (iodine) 4ml day 1, 4ml day 2 (4ml increase iodine of 0,02ppm), then 3ml on alternate day basis (dose per day should be always 1,5ml).
This is what I am giving.

Thank you for that info.

 

[Ink]

Just a detail: I think the key element is Iron (or less probably iodine) because GlennF, in his DSR system hasn't changed water in the last years and He adds only Iron and iodine as microelements; He has PO4 0,04-0,08 and NO3 2ppm with a good amount of food. Other elements added are all macro elements. His corals are thriving with fantastic health. So I think iron is vital, especially when grow rate is high.

 

[shih87]

shih87:

I'm not sure from those two photos. The blue background on the 2nd pic looks slightly darker than in the 1st pic. Also there is a bright area right at the bottom of the frag on 1st pic..this is not there on the 2nd pic...hence I think the stronger appearance of colouration is coming from different settings than the coral becoming deeper in colour.

Luca,

Can you list which micronutrients you added and by using which products?

Thanks.

Thank you for that info.

I agree. I also think these two pictures is not a good example of KNO3 results.

shih87, also if You didn't detedt any NO3 after adding live rock, with them You added organic material, that means nitrogen and phosphorous.

Raising your fixture will reduce light power and will surely reduce organic/inorganic nutrients consumption, but it's hard to preview the intensity of the effect, maybe enough, exactly as insufficient or exaggerated.

I never tried KNO3 personally, but in the last weeks I heard about some people who began using it and they were affected by too low nutrients and problems similar to Yours. They are all happy and enthusiast. KNO3 has the enormous advantage to finely control the dose. It's You deciding what NO3 level have in Your tank.

In Your place I wouldn't reduce the light period under 5 hours. If You increase it You will probably cause growth increase and nutrients demand, so I wouldn't do that now.
Always in your place, having PO4 detectable, with NO3 undetectable, I would like to balance them and the best way I think is to dose KNO3, because I don't know any other safe way to selectively increase N.

Changing topic, I finally begin see some improvements in my tank and this is due to microelements administration. So I confirm to all of You the importance of them especially when nutrients increase and lot of organisms consume quickly everything isn't replenished.

Luca

It is hard for me with current light system to raise due to it is hold by 11 cables... meaning if I want to raise it, I need adjust 11 cable ;-(.... My new tank setup will make it easier ;-)

Regarding NO3 undetectable, I am now using Red Sea tester, I might change to Salifert as you suggested early.

sahin, I think iron made the difference but I can't prove it. BTW I added 25 ml brightwell replenish (max dose adviced for my tank per week).
25ml Redsea color C (iron, increase iron of 0,05ppm) day 1, 25ml day 2, 12ml day 3, today 3ml (dose per day on the base of Ca consumption should be actually 1,5ml, but growth is starting back and Ca consumption is increasing).
Redsea Color B (iodine) 4ml day 1, 4ml day 2 (4ml increase iodine of 0,02ppm), then 3ml on alternate day basis (dose per day should be always 1,5ml).
This is what I am giving.

Just a detail: I think the key element is Iron (or less probably iodine) because GlennF, in his DSR system hasn't changed water in the last years and He adds only Iron and iodine as microelements; He has PO4 0,04-0,08 and NO3 2ppm with a good amount of food. Other elements added are all macro elements. His corals are thriving with fantastic health. So I think iron is vital, especially when grow rate is high.

That remind me I am out of KZ Iron solution for three weeks (LFS out of stock). I will buy KZ Iron tomorrow when I visit a different town. What Iron solution you use? Do you aware any different between brands?

 

[sahin]

That remind me I am out of KZ Iron solution for three weeks (LFS out of stock). I will buy KZ Iron tomorrow when I visit a different town. What Iron solution you use? Do you aware any different between brands?

Please let me know which Iron supplement you buy and how it affects the corals. I had much brighter green in the past...but green isnt a strong colour in my tank at the moment as I have seen in the past.

 

[Ink]

I haven't enough experience on iron to detect difference between brands. IMO KZ has the important problem to not declare what, and more important how much, there is in their bottles.

Personally I have shifted many brand products to pure chemical elements, as Glennf does in his DSR system. I am now evaluating to purchase even iron citrate.

The fact that GlennF has a thriving tank with no water change in the last 8 year, but only adding few elements makes me believe those elements are enough to keep alive all kinds of corals. Maybe adding some more could even improve colors, but his elements are however sufficient to obtain great results.

 

[afishionado]

Yes, but Glenn has an exceptionally complex system/dosing scheme for the average, or even above average, Reefkeeper to emulate ...

One must have a keen understanding of the chemical composition(s)/derivative(s) of the chemicals he/she is dosing into a closed system, and most importantly the many intricate nuances of how they all affect/build upon each other.

It's certainly a feasible system for the advanced/expert aquarist, who also has an acute knowledge of reef chemistry. However, many will do a great/utter disservice to their tank/animals attempting to emulate that system ! Water changes, with a high quality synthetic salt, are the easiest, most comprehensive way to dilute pollutants and exchange/replace micro and macro elements ...

 

[Ink]

afishionado, sincerely I think glenn's system is much, really much simpler than a common zeovit system, where You can't even have the minimal idea of what and how much You are administering. All IMO

 

[shih87]

.....
There is one guy use KNO3 in Taiwan and post a picture 3 days apart, but I can't tell the darker color (on right side) is due to KNO3 or camera under different light source...See below

HI Guys,

Sorry for no update a while. I was busy on office project and just back from Sahin's place Sunday (London>Belgim) after a week meetings in Belgium.

I think I have better proof on KNO3 than previous picture which show it did work in certain circumstance ...as you can see one of my SPS frag small portion STN stop and KNO2=3 dosing (0.5g per day to bring NO3 to 0.25~0.5ppm) help to grow tissue back.

picture on 3/14

picture on 3/23

I can't find Iron additive before I out of town, and I can see my strawberry tissue lost green color even more, so.... Iron will be next thing that I need take care for sure.

 

[sahin]

Are those photos from your own tank? If yes, that is good recovery. There is buildup of extra Zooxanthellae, but the coral looks happier.

Be very interesting to know what Iron dosing will do. Which Iron product are you thinking of using?

How is the nuisance algae? Still there or improved?

 

[Ink]

Shih87, take a look on your potassium. I don't know why but despite KNO3 should add very little K, both me and my friend found K significantly increased and we didn't add anything other than KNO3.

If You find it raising, I advice You to shift to NaNO3. I'll get mine next tuesday.

 

[watchguy123]

Wow, without those pictures, I would have thought a positive rebound as pictured would not have been possible,yet what you demonstrate is incredible. Extraordinary. Although images can be deceiving, it certainly looks like receding/necrosing tissue has regrown.

 

[shih87]

Are those photos from your own tank? If yes, that is good recovery. There is buildup of extra Zooxanthellae, but the coral looks happier.

Be very interesting to know what Iron dosing will do. Which Iron product are you thinking of using?

How is the nuisance algae? Still there or improved?

Yes, these pictures are from my tank. Algae issue has not completely solved, but it seems never cross spa rack, so I will handle it slowly....

Shih87, take a look on your potassium. I don't know why but despite KNO3 should add very little K, both me and my friend found K significantly increased and we didn't add anything other than KNO3.

If You find it raising, I advice You to shift to NaNO3. I'll get mine next tuesday.

Thanks for the reminder. I just did a test for my potassium, it up from my regular 410 ppm to 430 ppm. Not too bad (I think!?), but I will anyway stop KNO3 for couple days just to observe if Zooxanthellae recovery can continue without KNO3 help ....

Wow, without those pictures, I would have thought a positive rebound as pictured would not have been possible,yet what you demonstrate is incredible. Extraordinary. Although images can be deceiving, it certainly looks like receding/necrosing tissue has regrown.

I hope it will fully recovery from receding tissue. One side effect (not necessary bad thing), due to NO3 up to 0.25 ppm, other SPS color get darker, but in a way I like.

 

[jacky.l]

Glad to see you STN stop. KNO3 is still very effective, last year I know if this way can also be estimated for a few pieces of SPS. Don't listen to 源大 said KNO3 before.