A Game: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Not sure what your answer, "O" is referring to... But I'm hoping you're not telling me that those are my chances of finding my buddy quickly... 'Cause if it is, then my answer is ALL wrong.

What I would do:

Cursing under my breath, I'd go into the wreck and pull his butt out of it, probably giving him a wedgie on the way out. Maybe a slap to the back of the head NCIS-style. Of course, the key would be to not touch ANYTHING, since obviously a silt-out is a possibility. With 90 feet of new boat on the bottom, any silt is basically more of an annoyance than a life-threatening situation.

I honestly don't know what they're teaching nowadays as to the right way to handle this... Wait for a while and then go get qualified help, perhaps?
 
O, means, "O yeah, you have an hour of light left.

When I went to OW in '99 I would have to say that they would have taught you to surface, and let someone know. Get on 16 and start yelling for help.

Now, with my training, Id be the guy to go get him. Id surface, grab the spare 2 tanks and hang them at the door. If I needed to Id change to 1 new one, depending on what I had left. Use a reel at the door, and go get him. We always had pony bottles so if I found him and hes low, Im covered.

But if he out, its really just a recovery. :( Either way, I'm never diving with him again. Ever.
 
OK, how about this -What would you do?
You're a newly certified diver with limited $$. You live in Michigan, so to dive locally you really need a drysuit to extend your diving season. But you also lack: a regulator and a computer. You're not gonna be able to get all three, at least not right away. In what order would you procure your gear, and why?
 
Any reputable LDS will rent drysuits as well once you're certified to use one, so I'm going to state the following...

The first of the 3 that I would purchase would be the computer because you need to know it inside and out and be very familiar with it's functions and how it dives (conservative, allowing for overrides for certain issues, etc.), and since different LDS's will rent different makes and models, you won't be able to have a good grasp of what it will do if you don't own it and KNOW it. A secondary factor is that it has the capability to log each of your dives.

#2 would be the drysuit since it's going to be a more costly piece of equipment to rent, and obviously you'll be more comfortable in your own custom fitted drysuit, which means that you'll dive more.

#3 would be the regs.

-Tim
 
Since a computer is not necessary and just a nicety, that is the last thing on my list. I'll stick to using tables and saving the money to dump into buying regs and the dry suit. The computer can come later, if at all. After all, breathing and exposure protection are absolutely necessary ;)
 
Bill, while I do agree with you, the post said "newly certified diver" and PADI teaches the computers now, not so much the tables... They only very briefly gloss over them with a few Q's on the test, but everything in the water is COMPUTER. -- Just sayin!

-Tim
 
Wow, that's scary. :)

I agree with Bill... I'd hold off on the 'puter, since it's not a requirement to dive.

The drysuit is a huge expense (the really good ones are between two and three thousand dollars) and will only be used part of the time during the year in most places in North America. Michigan's Great Lakes region may be an exception to this rule, however... What's the water temp like there over the next four or five months?

Regulators can be had for only a few bucks a day at a shop, and despite the general attitude that "rental regs suck," they're almost always new and in a good state of repair because the shop must keep them up... So it hardly makes sense to take on the hundreds of dollars' worth of expense and requirement to maintain them annually for yet another couple hundred in lieu of the inexpensive rental.

In short, I wouldn't recommend buying ANY gear if you're "newly certified diver," especially if you have "limited $$." Believe me, you'll accumulate gear by default anyway, so why worry about it right now?

'Course, that's not what the "newly certified diver" does. :) There's just too many doggone cool things in the dive shop. :)

Personally? If it were me and I were once again a "newly certified diver," knowing what I know now? I'd beg, borrow and rent equipment, and go diving. That's where your "limited $$'s" need to go... Into DIVING. And when you're not actually diving, it needs to go into THINKING ABOUT DIVING and LEARNING ABOUT DIVING.

I see it happen all the time... People fall in love with diving, and then they go spend all of their time and money on GEAR instead of DIVING. If you're in love with DIVING, then you need to spend your money on DIVING. :)

The gear will begin to accumulate in your garage and then breed like a rabbit when you're not looking... All by itself. :) Don't worry about that. :)
 
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Lew, The water temp that I would be diving in most of the time locally is probably in the 50's until mid summer, then maybe the 60's. A wetsuit would cut it but my friends tell me (and I agree) "If you buy a wetsuit, you're just taking money away from the drysuit that you will surely eventually purchase." Plus, I did my first cold water dive a couple of weeks ago with a rented 7mm farmer john suit and I needed #38 to get underwater (even that wasn't really enough, but I forced myself down a few feet and the neoprene compressed enough to allow me to become negative). It was a royal pain topsides with that much neoprene and weight.
Bill, good point about the computer being a nicety. But, it's a real nice nicety. They're always on sale at Leisure Pro for about $150 so that's way more do-able than either a drysuit or regs.
Tim, I took my training via SSI and computers weren't mentioned, just the tables.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15180902#post15180902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yousmellsfishy
Tim, I took my training via SSI and computers weren't mentioned, just the tables.
I'm not a bit surprised, but as we all know, PADI is not only the #800 Gorilla these days, but they are also dumbing things down by the minute... Hell, I'm a prime example of a modern day PADI student! :confused:

-Tim
 
50's and 60's... That's definitely drysuit conditions by a very wide margin.

Is a drysuit something that can also be rented at your local dive shops?

The computer - what makes you feel that it's a "real nice nicety?" What can you do with it that you can't do otherwise? What is easier about using one than not using one? Why do you believe this?

$150 gets you a lot of diving, my friend. Buying the computer doesn't get you ANY diving - it gets you a gadget. So if you're going to spend the money and you want to go diving, I'd say to spend it on diving - not a gadget.

Personally, I own several dive computers - contrary to popular belief, I am not "against" computers. However, in using many different ones and many different brands, I have come to realize that not only are they not necessary, but can actually be argumentative - disagreeing, sometimes with a very wide margin - with the plan, with tables, with other computers, with the software I used to create the plan - or what I know for sure to be the case. Deciding what to do at 80' where you're a little narked and under a lot of pressure and thinking about how much gas you've got left and where your boat is and where your buddy is and ooo... lookie the fishie... And where's the anhor line and how long have I been down here and why's my BC having an issue and what happened to the light I had and... You get the idea... Trying to decide at that moment whether you can believe your computer or not is really tough - and definitely not something I'd recommend, especially as a noob. And it's not like your life depends on it or anything... No, wait, it does. :)

Besides, buying a computer this early in your diving would serve only to teach you to dive on it's data... And that's a very dangerous practice, because they're often wrong - you've just got to hope that they're wrong conservatively, not liberally.

How deep are you diving? What kind of diving are you doing? Where will you be going? What do you plan to do there?

If you're a newly certified diver, then you won't be diving past 60 feet, right? If that's the case, then limit all of your dives to one hour, with a one hour surface interval between. You won't be able to get that much gas out of an AL80 anyway - your dive will be cut short because you're low on air.

...Which is to say that your computer won't do a thing for you. It's completely unnecessary. You'll run out of air or time or both. Why spend $150 (I wouldn't recommend a cheap computer, when you do buy one) when the only thing it's going to tell you is, "You're good?"

...But see, you don't know any of this yet. And if you dove with the computer, you'd never know it... That is, you'd never learn that.

If you were doing tables, by the 10th time you planned your dive with tables, you'd pretty much have memorized that you've got x minutes at y feet... And while your buddies were all arguing over who's computer said what about the dive, you'd know already how far from your limits you were.

...Then they'd start calling you "Scuba God" or some crap like that. And you'd look at them and say, "I'm not some kind of whiz-kid... Just look at your tables. It's easy."

This is akin to a 3rd grader, learning that 2+2=4, and trying to figure out what calculator he needs. He doesn't need a calculator. He needs to learn that 2+2=4. It's not like we're dividing by polynomials here - it's plain math, usually by single digits, sometimes by two.

...But I've said too much already. Steer clear of the calculator for simple math so that you can know what 6+4 equals. And steer clear of the dive computer so that you can learn this stuff while blowing your $150 on diving, not gadgets.

Once you've got 100 dives under your belt and your advanced classes done, then reconsider.

Other than that, it's mask, fins, and exposure protection for now. How impossible is it to obtain a good drysuit in your area?
 
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Agreed, but if nothing else, the computer is a solid DIVE TIMER, DEPTH GAUGE, SPS, COMPASS, THERMOMETER and DATA LOG wrapped up in one nifty little package.

I bought my Gekko new from LP for only $50 more than the analogs, and those don't come with a thermometer, dive timer , compass or electronic data log. Since I no longer wear a watch, I would have had to spend the money for at least 2 of the 3 of these anyway, and likely would have ended up spending more in the process.

-Tim
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15181097#post15181097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeaJayInSC
50's and 60's... That's definitely drysuit conditions by a very wide margin.

That's downright balmy :D I dive wet down to 40 using a 7mm full suit and hooded vest. I actually find it quite comfortable. It's another one of those things that comes down to personnel comfort.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15181230#post15181230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
That's downright balmy :D I dive wet down to 40 using a 7mm full suit and hooded vest. I actually find it quite comfortable. It's another one of those things that comes down to personnel comfort.

Me too. :)

...Although I find that I can't stay in those conditions very long at that temperature. With a 7 mil full suit and hooded vest, I find my dive time limited to about two hours at 45* or so. Past that, I get cold and start to worry about efficiency in offgassing with constricted blood vessels.

For really long dives (anything past four hours of bottom time), I dive dry in anything colder than about 77*.

...But yeah, a simple two-tank dive to 60' or so... No problem with a 7 mil, IMHO.

It's also important to note that not all wetsuits are created equal - I only dive O'Neills any more, although I hear Pinnacle is very good, too. A 7 mil Deep Sea, for example, might not be quite so effective at keeping me warm.

But again, YMMV.

I never dive a "Farmer John." Hate 'em. :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15181223#post15181223 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
Agreed, but if nothing else, the computer is a solid DIVE TIMER, DEPTH GAUGE, SPS, COMPASS, THERMOMETER and DATA LOG wrapped up in one nifty little package.

True, and the reason why I own computers.

...But I don't recommend the "go up when your computer says to go up" learning process.

...Even the computer manufacturers don't recommend that learning process - read the owner's manuals.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15181223#post15181223 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
Agreed, but if nothing else, the computer is a solid DIVE TIMER, DEPTH GAUGE, SPS, COMPASS, THERMOMETER and DATA LOG wrapped up in one nifty little package.

I bought my Gekko new from LP for only $50 more than the analogs, and those don't come with a thermometer, dive timer , compass or electronic data log. Since I no longer wear a watch, I would have had to spend the money for at least 2 of the 3 of these anyway, and likely would have ended up spending more in the process.

-Tim

Having had computer's fail in mid dive, I strongly believe in analog gauges as a necessity back up to using a computer. So no real advantage to buying a computer and not the analog gauges in my mind. I actually just had to replace my old depth gauge, started leaking oil :( So I brought myself a nice new Oceanic console, nice and easy to read analog. It even has a temperature gauge and compass ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15181097#post15181097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeaJayInSC


The computer - what makes you feel that it's a "real nice nicety?" What can you do with it that you can't do otherwise? What is easier about using one than not using one? Why do you believe this?

The rental reg's at my LDS come with a SPS and a compass. No depth gauge. The 'puter I borrowed for my OW dives had depth, timer, temp, max depth, rate of ascent, and when you hit 15 feet, a 3 minute timer started. That's why I think it's a nice nicety. And that's without even using it to tell me how much time I have left at a given depth. Without the 'puter, I would have had to aquire a depth gauge and carried it on me somewhere, I wouldn't have had a record of temp, I could have figured out the rest with a watch but it was all right there in a compact package. I think that's a lot of convenience for a relatively small price.
 
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