This guy isn't eating, tried all types of food. First signs of ich appeared. He's been in my main tank since day 1 since the store had him over a week with no symptoms and he was supposedly eating and qt can be tough for these types since they need space. My main tank is 175g and qt is 20g with cupramine copper meds. My plan is to freshwater dip today then either back to main tank or qt in copper 20g. Thoughts? Foods tried so far nls pellets, brine, mysis, zucchini, lettuce, algae pellets. Thanks! Need to act as I've seen this spiral before.
Achilles tang new, 2 days in tank, not eating and first ich signs
- Thread starter Andrew S.
- Start date
At this point your display is compromised. Unless you're going to go fallow for 72 days, I would try to get him to eat in the display and after he's comfortable then think about how you're going to approach the qt and fallow. Otherwise you could try living with ick, many do, but I would be courteous to other reefers and let them know your tank has ick if you sell frags.
Try soaking nori in garlic or selcon to trigger a feeding response. Maybe even get some macro algae from a fellow reefer or LFS.
Good luck.
Edit: Also, I believe every fish should be quarantined whether they're finicky or not. Not qting jeopardizes all your current and future inhabitants. A good practice is to pay the LFS a little more money to hold the fish for two weeks. At that point the fish should be eating and any meds in a fish run will suppress a parasite. Then bring the fish home and continue a full qt. At least you know it was eating at the LFS. Or consider buying these finicky types of animals online from places like Liveaquaria that give a 30 day guarantee, but still qt.
Try soaking nori in garlic or selcon to trigger a feeding response. Maybe even get some macro algae from a fellow reefer or LFS.
Good luck.
Edit: Also, I believe every fish should be quarantined whether they're finicky or not. Not qting jeopardizes all your current and future inhabitants. A good practice is to pay the LFS a little more money to hold the fish for two weeks. At that point the fish should be eating and any meds in a fish run will suppress a parasite. Then bring the fish home and continue a full qt. At least you know it was eating at the LFS. Or consider buying these finicky types of animals online from places like Liveaquaria that give a 30 day guarantee, but still qt.
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Thanks. I can't fallow as even if I could catch all of them (which I can't) I couldn't house them. I will check on the nori. Realistic options are try to have him eating in display or switch right away to a 20g tank with copper meds. Leaning toward the latter as the ich will overtake him if left without meds. I'm not sure if anyone else has experience with specifically an achilles tang qt in a 20 gallon tank...I realize it's small.
ridetheducati
20 and Over Club
It is a shame the main display is now compromised. Your best chance at this point is to remove the Achilles and treat properly. Leave main display fallow to eradicate the parasite. Going forward, it is a best practice to quarantine ALL livestock prior to introducing to main display. If you do not choose this path, the risk of losing all future fish increases.
The Achilles is arguably the most challenging fish to maintain for a reason. Must bring your "A" game.
The Achilles is arguably the most challenging fish to maintain for a reason. Must bring your "A" game.
Been there done that...never again will a new fish go directly into my display. My suggestion is to cooper treat the archillis and be prepare to do it with every fish that was in your display. Ick and velvet usually go hand in hand with newly introduced tangs especially archillis and the powder blue. LFS and wholesalers do nothing to treat the fishes other then add enough cooper to surpress the parasites so you don't seem them when shopping...good luck!!!
I think I know what I have to do. Take all 200 lbs live rock and all coral out of tank leaving coral in buckets. Catch the dozen or so fish and quarantine all in the two small tanks I have possibly selling some. Put the rocks and coral back in tank and wait 72 days. Then qt all new fish going forward. Hopefully the achilles will make it in a 20g tank with oxygen bubbler. If he looks too bad in there may have to sell him. Probably will spend hours tomorrow on it.
Holyreefer
Octopus Extreme 300 Skimr
Ive had achillies before and plan on having one as i continue with my 210
The biggest thing i notice about these fish is they Love and MUST have VERY HIGH FLOW & GREAT QUALITY WATER!
they require Lots of oxygen in the water.
2ndly they always tend to have ich my last one before i had to shut the tank down it would come and go by weekly, if i saw 1 spot i would do a water change and it would also seem to go back inside the body ???!!!(Who knows) But,i gave nori daily and had VERY HIGH WATER FLOW.
It thrived for me. I was able to keep the fish for about a good 2 years before i had to shut my tank down and give it to my buddy for his tank, i RUN A UV, Skim 24/7 unless feeding time and do weekly water changes
So water practice is also a HUGE ONE HERE
The biggest thing i notice about these fish is they Love and MUST have VERY HIGH FLOW & GREAT QUALITY WATER!
they require Lots of oxygen in the water.
2ndly they always tend to have ich my last one before i had to shut the tank down it would come and go by weekly, if i saw 1 spot i would do a water change and it would also seem to go back inside the body ???!!!(Who knows) But,i gave nori daily and had VERY HIGH WATER FLOW.
It thrived for me. I was able to keep the fish for about a good 2 years before i had to shut my tank down and give it to my buddy for his tank, i RUN A UV, Skim 24/7 unless feeding time and do weekly water changes
So water practice is also a HUGE ONE HERE
Yikes!
Achilles is not an easy fish to keep and get eating under the best of circumstances. Seems like you have a sense of what you need to do. FWIW, ich free for a week at the LFS means absolutely nothing - these fish are not called 'ich magnets' for nothing - and no fish cries out for QT more than this one. A 20 may be pushing it, though I did QT mine for 4 months in a 30 long - just use a powerhead rather than a 'bubbler'.
Achilles is not an easy fish to keep and get eating under the best of circumstances. Seems like you have a sense of what you need to do. FWIW, ich free for a week at the LFS means absolutely nothing - these fish are not called 'ich magnets' for nothing - and no fish cries out for QT more than this one. A 20 may be pushing it, though I did QT mine for 4 months in a 30 long - just use a powerhead rather than a 'bubbler'.
ReefPharmer
Active member
When I got the Achilles I qtd in a 40 gallon w a powerhead using hypo. Later on I stupidly introduced a rock from a friends system which brought ich back into the tank and the powder blue started showing spots days after the rock introduction. Instead of pulling all the rocks to catch all the fish, I removed all the coral into a coral qt tank and dropped the salinity in my dt into hypo range of 1.0085. I had a 180 so yes it was a lot of water but it cost less than losing fish to an ich outbreak of buying multiple qt setups to house 6 tangs.
I did the hypo for several months and brought the corals back in after raising salinity. No harm done and the tank (and the upgrade) are ich free so far (2-3 yrs).
The flow suggestion is a very good one, both Achilles and pbt love flow
I did the hypo for several months and brought the corals back in after raising salinity. No harm done and the tank (and the upgrade) are ich free so far (2-3 yrs).
The flow suggestion is a very good one, both Achilles and pbt love flow
Thanks for all the awesome advice. I decided to painstakingly pull every rock and coral, catch the fish and qt all. It's done after 4 hrs. I had to pull and set up the rocks twice because a small wrasse snuck into some coral when I placed in a bucket and back into the dt when I put the coral back! Needless to say I'm having whiskey at 2am after that 
now to wait 72 days. I'd like to know if anyone has had success keeping an achilles ich free in their dt. Otherwise maybe it's best not to keep them. I've found two schools of thought through various people. Ich is always in the tank you just need immune healthy fish vs. you should fallow and qt all fish and its possible to have an ich free tank. The first group was a lfs employee and two fellow reefers. The second group is more reefers and all of you. And from this experience obviously the latter is best. No wonder lfs all keep separate coral and fish tanks...to keep the constantly new fish stacked with copper without harming coral. Cheers everyone.
now to wait 72 days. I'd like to know if anyone has had success keeping an achilles ich free in their dt. Otherwise maybe it's best not to keep them. I've found two schools of thought through various people. Ich is always in the tank you just need immune healthy fish vs. you should fallow and qt all fish and its possible to have an ich free tank. The first group was a lfs employee and two fellow reefers. The second group is more reefers and all of you. And from this experience obviously the latter is best. No wonder lfs all keep separate coral and fish tanks...to keep the constantly new fish stacked with copper without harming coral. Cheers everyone.
ReefPharmer
Active member
its absolutely possible to have an ich free tank. i dont know if i have one as i have added corals from other systems but as far as fish go, i QT. I have some "aggressive" tangs and even tho they sometimes check their standing in the hierarchy of tangdom, they never show ich. If you start w/ an ich free tank (through qt or new tank) and dont add ich, you wont have ich. Its a protozoan, not something magic that just appears because you add salt. FWIW I have Achilles, powder blue, yellow, purple, blonde naso and a chevron.Thanks for all the awesome advice. I decided to painstakingly pull every rock and coral, catch the fish and qt all. It's done after 4 hrs. I had to pull and set up the rocks twice because a small wrasse snuck into some coral when I placed in a bucket and back into the dt when I put the coral back! Needless to say I'm having whiskey at 2am after that
Help me get something straight, I should Cupramine fish for 30 days in qt then keep in normal not coppered water the remaining 42 days of fallow? Also what about new fish later, qt without copper wait for any ich signs then cupramine or simply cupramine from day 1? Allow a period after cupramine 30 days to prove no ich before adding back to dt?
kenpau
New member
There was an interesting thread about the copper dosing period, people suggest to go fallow for 72 days because of the results of one test which found that in that one test the longest lifespan of the parasite was 72 days. So...if it is possible for the parasite to exist in a non free swimming stage for more than 30 days then why do we not dose copper for that magical 72 day period? Unfortunately there was no answer for this.
As you can probably tell I am not a big fan of the 'you must go fallow for 72 days' comments that appear everywhere, as I said that was the results from one test. There are many strains of ich which may (and probably do) have different life cycles so I would say it is entirely possible to add your fish back into the DT after 72 days and your fish become reinfected; as this member found out:-
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2508011
I have an Achilles and PBT.. two of the hardest imo, you should have just left him in the DT. You're going to have an even harder time getting him to eat in a 20g tank. Make sure you have a strong power head in there and a air pump. Mine would only eat nori to start, try both a clip and rubber banded to a small rock or pvc fitting. Watch ammonia closely. Its going to come quick and hard if the qt isn't cycled.
As stated above, these guys require pristine water conditions, high flow and lots of oxygen. My skimmer overflowed in the sump (know idea why) the other day and the water got a little murky, all other fish acted like it was no big deal but the Achilles hid the entire night and wouldn't eat until the next morning once it cleared back up.
As stated above, these guys require pristine water conditions, high flow and lots of oxygen. My skimmer overflowed in the sump (know idea why) the other day and the water got a little murky, all other fish acted like it was no big deal but the Achilles hid the entire night and wouldn't eat until the next morning once it cleared back up.
He would have died in the dt from ich. He's been in the 20g 3 days and doing better. My latest question has to do with how much of the fallow period to use copper.
I understand your point kenpau about accuracy of 72 days and a single study. However it's the best info. available it seems. If another study is done that would be even more info but until then I plan to use what we know currently.
I understand your point kenpau about accuracy of 72 days and a single study. However it's the best info. available it seems. If another study is done that would be even more info but until then I plan to use what we know currently.
reefgeezer
Active member
Don't use copper in the display. Just leave it fallow for the 72 days.
Copper in the QT can be tricky. It must be maintained at a pretty high level to be effective and tends to drop rather easily. It is also pretty toxic at levels just a little higher than the effective level. Get a test kit, don't put any calcium carbonate based materials in the QT, and be prepared to add copper regularly.
TTM may be a viable option but 20 gallons is a lot to move every few days.
At this point, if you elect to leave things as-is, your best hope is to get the water perfect enough for stony coral, stimulate appetite and try to help the fish avoid or survive the pest, and do not get another fish for at least 6-8 months to a year. The stuff is not immortal: it can live 72 days encysted in the sandbed, and spends only a portion of its life attached to a fish, after which it will drop off, live a while in the sandbed and reproduce to attack other fish. Go to fish disease, read the sticky on this pest's life cycle, and figure on a long no-new-fish spell. You may get lucky if this is a weak strain of ich.
