Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

Sorry, It is 8 months or so maybe not sure it is developed enough. I get growth about like the pictures above. I have hair algae in my tank and it grows often. I have not done a water change since Sept. I am begining to think maybe I should do one now. I have 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. My main concerns are the algae in the display. I am tired of this problem and fed up with the HA. I use two 32 watt cfl one on each side. I have more than enough flow I use a mag 9 pump never tested the flow but on my 7 inch accross scrubber i only need like 250 gallons. I should have way more than that. Thats all the info I can think of.
Thanks

You sound a little put off, so I will go on record that none of us owe you anything...

That being said, dealing with a tank full of algae ****es people off, so I know where your coming from... So I will not take any offense from your tone...

Honestly, if your getting the same growth as the previous post I answered, then I would say follow the guidelines that I gave that poster.

In my findings CFLs fall short for larger tanks, the only other thing that could be happening here is that your not growing hair algae in your tank, and maybe its a very different algae...

Bryopsis maybe... You have a close up of algae growing in your tank?

 

[SPotter]

@zhewitt...What do you feed, how often and what's your live stock?

Steve

 

[zhewitt04]

Sorry for my "tone" I never felt put off or anything of the sort I am more frustrated at myself or my actual tank than this. Sorry but i think maybe you read into a little more than I had intended. Again my apologies. I have a Naso Yellow and Tomini tang as well as two clowns and a couple blennys. I feed every day one cube of mysis or a pack of instant ocean brine shrimp. I am just confused how to get adequate light on such a small screen. I am trying to clean every three or four days. Any advise from here would be great! Thanks

 

[alaska clowns]

zhewitt04..... I don't know if this could be of help, but here's my experience (I'm pretty new to this). I don't have my ATS dialed in perfect yet, but here's what I did to improve it:
My screen is about 7X10. I was using 2 - 23 watt CFL's (one bulb on each side) about 4 inches from my screen, and I was getting slimy, but not GHA, growth on my screen (18 hours on, 6 hours off). I replaced my bulbs with 42 watt CFL's and kept the same photoperiod, and my growth has more than doubled over the last few weeks. I have been cleaning my screen every 7-10 days.
The one other thing that was helpful to me was to do an actual test of my GPH flow to the slot - I didn't have near as much flow as I needed or thought I had, so I increased the diameter of my plumbing to get better flow (I have a gravity/siphon overflow -fed ATS).
That being said, my DT is not spotless yet... But my algae is currently being held at bay.
Hope that helps, and hope you're able to solve your problem!

Redneck, but Functional Reflectors & ATS (before replacing with 42 watt bulbs):


<a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/?action=view&current=sumpmod4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/sumpmod4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/?action=view&current=sumpmod1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/sumpmod1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Algae after 10 days (this was 6 days ago...my screen looks almost as thick today)-

<a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/?action=view&current=DSC06743.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/DSC06743.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/?action=view&current=DSC06747.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee454/AlaskaClowns/DSC06747.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[zhewitt04]

I don't think it is my pump. I understand what you are saying with the flow as I had much less than thought originally when I had a maxi jet on it...lol I have learned a lot since. Anyways I think after reading more of your post I might need to use better reflectors. I have no reel reflectors on mine. I am using a clip light on mine. They use red plastic reflectors. There is very little reflection with this lamp. Maybe i need to add some reflection to it.

 

[perpetual98]

Just built and installed my ATS yesterday. I took pictures, but they're on the camera at home and I forgot to transfer them. I just made a frame out of 1/2" CPVC and spent less than $10 on the frame. Now I just need to hit Home Depot and get some bulbs. I have only 1 bulb going right now because all I had was a 27W CFL at 2700k but I have no idea how old it is. Any suggestions on which bulbs at Home Depot? My screen is 7" wide and is being fed with a MJ1200 that I had laying around. I will try to post pictures later. It necessitated a complete plumbing redo to fit under the tank and it's cramped down there already. I also need to figure out a new splash screen for my return since there will be the ATS and a light in that section of the sump.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've been off in Hawaii for a week so just catching up here. I couple things to throw out there:

Yes the thick green growth is the best for filtering, however one should really gauge the success of the filter system by the end results: how does the tank/coral look, and how do the water parameters check out? if those are both good, then don't fret.

If your N and P is in check, and DT algae under control, and you're looking to tweak the system, really monitor your feeding over the course of a week. Don't change it, just monitor it. Get picky and try to figure out how many cube-equivalents you are feeding per day. Then keep this in mind: a screen larger than you need will not necessarily filter better. It essentially just distributes the same amount of filtering capacity across a larger area. What I mean by this is that if you feed 2 cubes per day, but your screen is 4x as big as it needs to be for this level of feeding, then you will end up with a larger surface area from which algae needs to grow that is receiving less nutrients per unit area than it actually can handle, and your filter is underfed. Not underfiltering, just underfed. I have noticed that many people want to get their system growing green, and that is indeed what you want, but it's not really a hardcore requirement, IMO.

I cleaned the screen on the system I run on Friday before I left (1/13) and it looked like this after 10 days of growth

Not exactly green and bushy like the first cleaning, which was after the system was offline for a week or more then fired up again. The plus side here is that after the 10 day growth of this brownish-yellow gooey growth is that N is still zero, and P dropped to 0.01, which is the lowest I've seen on this system. It used to hang around 0.09-0.16 when the screen was bigger (20" vs 14") and I was cleaning every 7 days.

All this being said, I am still with y'all on the bushy green growth. It does not smell hardly at all compared to the growth in the above pics, which needs a vent fan or an open window as it has a more putrid smell (which dissipates quickly). Also I am finding that some LPS corals, such as frogspawn and hammers, do not 'like' the scrubber growth like this, and they start to 'clamp up'. So there definitely is a desire to get this type of growth, but it's not for purposes of N and P reduction and battling GHA, rather it is more for achieving the optimum filtering medium for all conditions.

On a side note, I saw many examples of turf turf algae on rocks near the shore growing very well. We even stood on one during out wedding photography shoot! I managed to get that one snuck in there LOL. And maybe it was just the unpolluted waters there, but even under high wave conditions and the presence of hundreds of humpback whales off the Maui shore, I saw very little foam fractionation! Could have been the "deep sand bed"....

 

[felixfish]

Here is the DIY version of my ATS. I built it out of 3/4" PVC hooked up 370GPH Pond master pump (ebay) feeding from the sump. It took about 6-8 weeks for me to start growing red to light brown algae. I have recently added a dual media reactor from BRS and it is still been growing. I don't get the green growth as much, just at the bottom of the screen near the water. The way my sump is, there are no baffles, and have LR along with my HOB skimmer & ATO. I am lucky to have a furnace room behind the DT, so that's how I rigged the PVC light bar over the top of the sump.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If it took you that long to grow brown algae, something is missing. The screen looks like it's about 7 x 10 or so, which would be good for 6 cubes a day as a stand alone filter. But you've got a filter sock, skimmer, carbon, and GFO running, so this is really just supplemental filtration as best. I would scale the thing way, way back if you intend on keeping everything else running in the sump. Unless this is running on a very large tank (200g+) and you're actually feeding 6+ cubes/day, I would scale it down to 4" x 6" or less and make some small reflectors to harness all the light from the CFLs and blast it onto the small screen. Right now you'll never get green because you're taking all that light and spreading it across a screen that is too large and that screen is being run on a system that has multiple forms of other filtration which directly affect the efficiency of the scrubber (GFO, namely, but the filter sock also to some extent)

 

[srusso]

If it took you that long to grow brown algae, something is missing. The screen looks like it's about 7 x 10 or so, which would be good for 6 cubes a day as a stand alone filter. But you've got a filter sock, skimmer, carbon, and GFO running, so this is really just supplemental filtration as best. I would scale the thing way, way back if you intend on keeping everything else running in the sump. Unless this is running on a very large tank (200g+) and you're actually feeding 6+ cubes/day, I would scale it down to 4" x 6" or less and make some small reflectors to harness all the light from the CFLs and blast it onto the small screen. Right now you'll never get green because you're taking all that light and spreading it across a screen that is too large and that screen is being run on a system that has multiple forms of other filtration which directly affect the efficiency of the scrubber (GFO, namely, but the filter sock also to some extent)

Agreed, thats some crazy overkill on filtration... do you really need all that?! :lol2:

That would be the smallest sump I have ever seen on a 200 gallon!! hahaha :deadhorse1:

I would start by removing filter sock then a week or two later the GFO. At least if that is your plan, otherwise if you have no N and no P... then the scrubber is doing its job.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I think I can finally contribute a unique idea to this thread.

One of my biggest complaints with the typical vertical style of ATS, where you've got the plastic canvas inserted in a slot in a 1" PVC pipe, is that there seems to be no end to the random "spurts" of water from the pipe/screen junction.

I didn't rough-up my screens near the top, so there really isn't any growth, but I seem to get random streams of water squirting out at odd angles every few days. Sometimes, wiggling the screen would make them go away. Other times, I would have to fiddle with the screen's position, clean it, adjust water flow, or take other measures. Needless to say, this has been a frustrating headache. The streams would sometimes hit the lighting unit, and I was always fearful that water would spray out of the sump, causing a disaster.

My solution is dirt simple and effective (my favorite type). I ripped off a piece of plain old kitchen cling-wrap that was a few inches longer than the pipe, and draped it over the pipe. It hangs down and "sticks" to the screen for maybe the top 2" inches, and TOTALLY eliminates the random spurts of water. I will take a picture if people want, but it's pretty straightforward.

I've had the plastic wrap on there for the last month, and it has apparently had ZERO impact on growth - though my screen is fairly new and has poor growth anyways, so I'd be interested to know how others fare.

Simple and kind of a hackjob, but it was pretty much a game changer for me, as I was close to either doing a ground-up redesign of my scrubber or abandoning it all together.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yeah, I bet that works great! Plus the clinginess of that plastic wrap means that the water will essentially suction it right onto the screen and to itself at the ends, sealing it off. Great idea!!!

Now the only question is...it Saran Wrap reef safe?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Well, a month on my tank says yes so far.

 

[jwoyshnar]

My scrubber has been running for about 2 months now. I get good growth on the screen. I have leds on one side and a spiral bulb on the other. The led side usually has double the amount of growth compared to the other side. My phosphates are dropping slowly. I havent scraped my front glass in over 2 weeks. Thats a good sign

 

[GrampaDon]

My scrubber has been running for about 2 months now. I get good growth on the screen. I have leds on one side and a spiral bulb on the other. The led side usually has double the amount of growth compared to the other side. My phosphates are dropping slowly. I havent scraped my front glass in over 2 weeks. Thats a good sign

First ,Congrats on the no glass cleaning.

Can you add some info like which LEDs you are using and the CFL as well.
[Curiosity:idea:]

 

[perpetual98]

I just got my ATS going a week and half or so ago. Started to get some brown growth on it really quickly. I seeded it with some GHA from my display, because I figured, hey, why not?

Anyway, I haven't scraped it yet. When should you scrape the screen? Once it's starts really growing stuff that is scrapable?

 

[jwoyshnar]

First ,Congrats on the no glass cleaning.

Can you add some info like which LEDs you are using and the CFL as well.
[Curiosity:idea:]

for the leds i am using 10 red 660nm and 4 warm whites. All came from Satisled.com. Spiral bulb is a 32 watt spiral from Lowes mounted in a utility light

 

[jwoyshnar]

As you can see there is more growth on the led side

 

[srusso]

I think I can finally contribute a unique idea to this thread.

One of my biggest complaints with the typical vertical style of ATS, where you've got the plastic canvas inserted in a slot in a 1" PVC pipe, is that there seems to be no end to the random "spurts" of water from the pipe/screen junction.

I didn't rough-up my screens near the top, so there really isn't any growth, but I seem to get random streams of water squirting out at odd angles every few days. Sometimes, wiggling the screen would make them go away. Other times, I would have to fiddle with the screen's position, clean it, adjust water flow, or take other measures. Needless to say, this has been a frustrating headache. The streams would sometimes hit the lighting unit, and I was always fearful that water would spray out of the sump, causing a disaster.

My solution is dirt simple and effective (my favorite type). I ripped off a piece of plain old kitchen cling-wrap that was a few inches longer than the pipe, and draped it over the pipe. It hangs down and "sticks" to the screen for maybe the top 2" inches, and TOTALLY eliminates the random spurts of water. I will take a picture if people want, but it's pretty straightforward.

I've had the plastic wrap on there for the last month, and it has apparently had ZERO impact on growth - though my screen is fairly new and has poor growth anyways, so I'd be interested to know how others fare.

Simple and kind of a hackjob, but it was pretty much a game changer for me, as I was close to either doing a ground-up redesign of my scrubber or abandoning it all together.

Wow!!! What a great idea!!! I am going to use that tonight!!!!! Thanks for sharing!!

Not that it matters much but you use a new piece with each cleaning or are you reusing?

 

[srusso]

Yeah, I bet that works great! Plus the clinginess of that plastic wrap means that the water will essentially suction it right onto the screen and to itself at the ends, sealing it off. Great idea!!!

Now the only question is...it Saran Wrap reef safe?

I think it's safe to say, anything designed primarily for use with food would be reef safe.