Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

I checked my scrubber when I got home from work and when I moved the Cling Wrap, a long piece of algae fell off. It started to growing on the plastic wrap. I decided to clean the screen today, 5 full days of operation. All the algae came off the screen easy without effort but was really dark green. I guess my first reaction is, I thought there would be more. It was a heavy 1/2 cup just shy of 2/3rds or 5 ounces. Is this good, or am I expecting to much?

It's good you cleaned it, looks like you have pods eating the algae. That explains the algae falling off. Do you see those lighter color circles on your screen? That is a sign of pods eating the algae. One of the reasons we must wash the screen in FW during each cleaning. (not saying you didn't, just pointing it out for people)

Steady the course, let it just do its thing. Clean again 5 to 7 days based on your growth.

 

[one clownfish]

I noticed the white circles too and I thought they were pods but I wasn't sure. I'll stay the course, get some light on the other side of the screen and report back in a few weeks with pictures of the screen and tank progression.

 

[srusso]

I noticed the white circles too and I thought they were pods but I wasn't sure. I'll stay the course, get some light on the other side of the screen and report back in a few weeks with pictures of the screen and tank progression.

Thank you for your contributions to the thread.

 

[JHawlz9989]

Thanks for looking over my design srusso! Hopefully it isn't too much overkill.

Floyd, I was told you're the man for finding out what products I can use to seal the LEDs. What's the name of the product, ad is it something I can find locally?

Also, the five 3W LEDs are about 4" from the screen, with a 12 hour photoperiod. What intensity should I be running them at?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[LiMaZoo]

Floyd (or anyone who may be able to lend an opinion)- about the LED grow lights you mentioned above...would those be optimal for a 5X5 screen or is that only decent in a pinch? I have a 90gallon and a 50gallon fed into 1 sump feeding a total of about 2 cubes a day of Rods food with a pinch or 2 of flakes. I started a UAS in the sump 2 weeks ago and have some green starting. Its about 6X8, lit on 1 side with 2 42w 2700k CFLs. Curious if those LED spot grow lights would be a better option overall compared to those CFLs or if I went for the traditional waterfall version, if a 10X5 screen lit on both sides with a total of 4 grow lights would be a good system. In regards to the UAS, its pretty amazing how different the growth is on the screen in regards to which area is hit by more turbulance. In the end, I'll probably try to keep the UAS and keep tweaking it to get more turbulance as an experiment but if you feel those spots are better, I'd switch the CFLs out for them. Then if that didnt work do the waterfall with the above criteria. Much appreciated guys!

 

[flakey]

Yes that is it. Not sure on how to mount & power them, but I would suggest taking the lenses off and using a diffuser.



No. That is 225 LEDs and 15W. Intensity is way too low unless you had it very, very close to an enclosed screen, and even then, no.

Hi Floyd,
How about this one?

The LED unit is 31x31cm. my algae screen will be slightly smaller at 25x25cm due to space resctrictions.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112-LED-45W-Grow-Panel-Red-Blue-Hydroponic-Light-Board-/200622910544?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item2eb60eac50

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

people have tried these but I haven't seen results of any significance. Not intense enough. these LEDs are low-power. Basically anything that is not mounted on a PCB board is not even worth considering IMO.

 

[flakey]

people have tried these but I haven't seen results of any significance. Not intense enough. these LEDs are low-power. Basically anything that is not mounted on a PCB board is not even worth considering IMO.

how do you know these are not mounted on pbc? is it by chatting to other people on these threads or are there tell tale sign i can look out for?

i'm no electrician so making my own led lights is not really feasible. from experience i also know that in the long run, where salt is involved, it pays to buy better quality equipment. I don't like spending lots of money, but last time i went budget, i wasted more money than i would have if i bought top of the range.

I live in the uk and would like to go LED but cannot find any red leds on the market that would be suitable. the only lights I can find are TMC's which come with 5 year guarantee (which is extremely good). these are sold as main display tank lighting so if too powerful, i could get a controller to dim it anywhere from 99% to 1%.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TMC-AquaRay-Colour-Plus-1000-Tile-Aquarium-Light-/320847050873?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item4ab3f97879

ok, so it's £185 or i can pick up a used white version for about £120 (can't find a used colour one, maybe they aren't very popular)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/tmc-aquaray-1000-/120975613121?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item1c2ab55cc1

There is a smaller version..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TMC-AquaRay-Mini-LED-400-Tile-Aquarium-Light-/320847040942?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item4ab3f951ae

what are your thoughts? i read your post and you say only red leds are required, but will white ones be ok, maybe not as efficient, but will it do the job?

Have you had any contacts with any UK hobbist? and do you know if there are any suitable product for us here in the UK ?

thanks

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I should clarify. 1W or 3W LEDs. The one you posted has <1W LEDs, hence 45W but 112 LED and you can tell by looking at them that they are of the kind similar in shape to what you see in a remote control - they are not heat-sunk by being attached to a PCB which is then attached to a heat sink, i.e. not high power.

The other ones you posted are better, but the wrong wavelength. You want a grow-light with 660nm red LEDs and maybe a couple blues. White will not be OK, there's not enough red in them.

Like these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LED-Gro...009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f18651799

The problem is that your 10x10 screen would need several per side, as LED floodlights do not spread the light very well, these are good for a 5x5 screen.

Also a 10x10 screen is enough for 8 cubes/day, are you sure you need that much filtration? Just checking.

 

[flakey]

i am only going to light the screen from 1 side hence the size. thanks for the link, i will investigate this new avenue.
how do you prtect the lights from salt creep/moisure?

i have to say a huge thanks to you and the other main contributors to this thread. you've clearly put a lot of time and effort into making this a sucessful thread. the only thing i would say is i spend ages reading up to page 50 only to then go out and buy some light bulbs and then deciding to check the past few pages and find that LED's is the way to go !!!

 

[flakey]

i'm tempted to DIY the LED's now. Do you know of a good thread to do this?

 

[LiMaZoo]

Oh in that case you might use some LED floodlights, the grow kind. Would be good for a 5x5 screen. something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LED-Gro...009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f18651799

One on each side

Sorry to ask again, but...these lights above, how would they compare to a 42w cfl @ 2700K? I have 2 of the cfls on a one sided UAS and I'm thinking of switching to these if they produce more lumens in the appropriate range. Any thoughts?

 

[flakey]

I should clarify. 1W or 3W LEDs. The one you posted has <1W LEDs, hence 45W but 112 LED and you can tell by looking at them that they are of the kind similar in shape to what you see in a remote control - they are not heat-sunk by being attached to a PCB which is then attached to a heat sink, i.e. not high power.

The other ones you posted are better, but the wrong wavelength. You want a grow-light with 660nm red LEDs and maybe a couple blues. White will not be OK, there's not enough red in them.

Like these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LED-Gro...009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f18651799

The problem is that your 10x10 screen would need several per side, as LED floodlights do not spread the light very well, these are good for a 5x5 screen.

Also a 10x10 screen is enough for 8 cubes/day, are you sure you need that much filtration? Just checking.

Would these be comparable to the bulbs? Space is an issue in my sump and i need something flat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390443678363?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[inky]

Would these be comparable to the bulbs? Space is an issue in my sump and i need something flat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390443678363?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

They are fine. I have made my own fixtures using the same sort of LEDs and getting good growth with the newer UAS

 

[trueperc]

I have to ask after reading a bunch on another forum more dedication to ATS and experiencing this myself. Are people getting any issue with phosphates even though they are running an ATS. I am in the middle of upgrading my flow an lights on mine but did find that other thread interesting as both a me and friend cooked out rock for 5 months to get rid of all phos and nasties out of the rock. I used only an ATS where he used a ATS plus skimmer. For me the ATS was able to keep N and P at zero for 6-8 months, but after that phos started rising, same with my friend. So I know see this being mentioned more and more on the other forum. The reason I am bring this up is that I thought it was just an not properly built ATS, same with my friend but I see from the other forum from people with properly built ones, they are still have the issue of rising Phos. The argument over there started with it was because of the phos leaching out of the rocks and sand, well in the case of me and my friend that was not the case as we cooked out rock before starting the ATS. Don't get me wrong, I love my ATS, my sand is white, I maybe have to clean my glass once a month, but are the guidelines really right. My friend has always been indoubt of why smaller might be better. So my question after this long response has any one tested there phos are others have any issue with rising phos. Also on a side note I see there is a design with running one with a air bubbles under water, what about using venturi or skimmer pump on the water fall design, not sure if that was mentioned before or not.

 

[silverwolf72]

I have been using the needle wheel pump from my skimmer that I pulled out and have it running for about a month. This is the first time my tests have shown 0 nitrates/nitrites. Do you think there is any benefit from using the NW pump?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have to ask after reading a bunch on another forum more dedication to ATS and experiencing this myself. Are people getting any issue with phosphates even though they are running an ATS. I am in the middle of upgrading my flow an lights on mine but did find that other thread interesting as both a me and friend cooked out rock for 5 months to get rid of all phos and nasties out of the rock. I used only an ATS where he used a ATS plus skimmer. For me the ATS was able to keep N and P at zero for 6-8 months, but after that phos started rising, same with my friend. So I know see this being mentioned more and more on the other forum. The reason I am bring this up is that I thought it was just an not properly built ATS, same with my friend but I see from the other forum from people with properly built ones, they are still have the issue of rising Phos. The argument over there started with it was because of the phos leaching out of the rocks and sand, well in the case of me and my friend that was not the case as we cooked out rock before starting the ATS. Don't get me wrong, I love my ATS, my sand is white, I maybe have to clean my glass once a month, but are the guidelines really right. My friend has always been indoubt of why smaller might be better. So my question after this long response has any one tested there phos are others have any issue with rising phos. Also on a side note I see there is a design with running one with a air bubbles under water, what about using venturi or skimmer pump on the water fall design, not sure if that was mentioned before or not.

Thank you for mentioning this, you kind of beat me to it. Yes myself and several others have noticed this. The argument on that other site is that the rocks are like a sponge and phosphate gets soaked in, leeches out, etc etc. While this certainly can be true, I don't feel it always is the case and such a scenario cannot explain away all instances. It has been my contention that there is a limiting factor which causes uptake of P to slow down. Thusfar, I have thought it was Nitrates, which would make sense, because the common factor in many cases is rock-bottom zero Nitrates.

But there may be some other mechanism at work here. This mechanism may have been there in scrubbers of the past (decades ago) only we were not readily able to decipher the mystery at that time, whereas now we are. So this is developing. I'll leave it at that for now.

With all of that being said, I'm putting out the call to everyone who is paying attention to test their Nitrates and Phosphates. Nitrates are easy and you don't need an expensive kit to tell when they're zero. Phosphates, not so much. What I would request, if possible, is that you use a Hanna Checker Phosphate/Phosphorus (and follow the directions right, it's easy to mess up!!) and report back your findings. API is right out - don't bother. Salifert is somewhat more accurate than API and easier to use. But the Hanna meter - used PROPERLY - is much more accurate. Borrow one if you gotta.

The claim on that other site has been that there's only a few people "out there" having this problem and they're only on that other site, which I feel is total BS, people just aren't testing or speaking up.

So speak up.

I have been using the needle wheel pump from my skimmer that I pulled out and have it running for about a month. This is the first time my tests have shown 0 nitrates/nitrites. Do you think there is any benefit from using the NW pump?

This has recently been done and is also a sort of developing theory. Only a few people have tried it but it seems to really amp up the growth. Also blowing a fan very strongly on the screen increases growth. Not sure why though, but theories abound at this point. Nitrites are pretty much irrelevant in SW, but what is your Phosphate at?

 

[mrbncal]

I have been using the needle wheel pump from my skimmer that I pulled out and have it running for about a month. This is the first time my tests have shown 0 nitrates/nitrites. Do you think there is any benefit from using the NW pump?

This is an interesting thought. . . I have been thinking about this myself. I dont have N/P issues but I have never gotten that "3D" growth so many talk about. I think I have one of these pumps somewhere. . . and I was thinking about redoing the ATS this weekend. Hmmmmmm I will post my results as I get some.

 

[silverwolf72]

All I use is a API test kit. All I have are a couple of softies and a dwarf angel in my 120gal, but I have always had issues with nitrates even when going 10% water changes once a week and adding a remote DSB. I just added another light and made it a two sided scrubber, if it keeps doing well I might feel better about adding more to my take finally.

 

[JHawlz9989]

I thought srusso already mentioned he used a small amount of GFO to pick up the extra phosphate?

Also, for people such as myself who ran GFO fairly aggressively and skimmed pretty well, would it help to recycle the cleanings we get from the scrubber to help encourage growth a little faster? That is, what if I just took the stuff I cleaned and put it back in the sump to let it decay?

Josh