Algae Scrubber Basics

[jacob.morgan78]

Reasoning needed. Why do we need to rinse the screen of a UAS in tap water. I understand it is to kill the pods but why do we need to do that?

What would be consequence of just harvesting the algae out of the screen while in the tank?

Thanks!! (you guys rock!!)

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

You remove the screen to clean it otherwise breaking the algae up in the scraping process releases "juice" (for lack of a more thoughtful term at this particular moment) into the tank which can discolor the water.

Yes decaying algae would release it's nutrients back into the water, but your fish/corals/inverts/etc are a constant source of waste via feeding.

Aggressive and constant GFO will keep P low enough that it may affect growth of the scrubber. If your N starts to rise, then P=0 is a limiting factor caused by the GFO. If not, no biggie. N typically is the limiting factor due to multiple de-nitrifying mechanisms in the reef aquarium. I have only heard of one or two cases of P limiting N uptake.

Srusso used GFO to pull P down to zero and beat off the bryopsis. I believe he took it off after that.

 

[jacob.morgan78]

You remove the screen to clean it otherwise breaking the algae up in the scraping process releases "juice" (for lack of a more thoughtful term at this particular moment) into the tank which can discolor the water.

Thanks! The reason I ask is because I added my UAS to an existing setup and the only available space makes it an issue to remove. I knew this would be a problem but still wanted to use a scrubber. It's easier to just harvest it from the screen (and other parts of the fuge) while in the tank. I've done this a few times and the only thing I've noticed is that there's a bunch of stray "hairs" that end up going everywhere in my fuge (never see them go anywhere else but know they must). Anything else I should be worried about? I haven't noticed any discoloration.

Beside from that, it seems like I have more of it growing other places in my fuge besides on my screen. It's not in my display tank so I'm not worried about it growing in my fuge but worry that I'm doing something wrong. Anyways, thought I'd share.

Thanks for any help or guidance you guys can offer!

 

[srusso]

I thought srusso already mentioned he used a small amount of GFO to pick up the extra phosphate?

Also, for people such as myself who ran GFO fairly aggressively and skimmed pretty well, would it help to recycle the cleanings we get from the scrubber to help encourage growth a little faster? That is, what if I just took the stuff I cleaned and put it back in the sump to let it decay?

Josh

I believe I found a fix for the phosphates... Testing it on my own tank and results are showing very positive results.

A document will soon be released with my findings... It's going to be big news if I am proven correct...

It's not GFO, and yes I have said on this site and others. I used GFO for 3-4 weeks for fix an issue... More on that in the document...

 

[inky]

I believe I found a fix for the phosphates... Testing it on my own tank and results are showing very positive results.

A document will soon be released with my findings... It's going to be big news if I am proven correct...

It's not GFO, and yes I have said on this site and others. I used GFO for 3-4 weeks for fix an issue... More on that in the document...

Looking forward to reading this document :celeb1:

 

[trueperc]

I can't wait to see the results. I myself am going to get my hand on some checkers and get testing right as I am using API for test kits right now. So interesting though on using a skimmer pump. I have an old venturi sitting around I might hook up. As that is what I thought to original idea was to have the algae have exposer to both air and water, with the water fall types really the algae is always in a way submerged in water. Like I was saying is my rock was cook and I tested many times and at the time with a few test kits to confrim all phos and nasties was out of the rock. So my rock was no leaching, I believe that it was absorbing hence why I went a long as I did with a zero reading.

 

[percula99]

As Trueperc stated earlier, he and I both cooked our LR over a five to six month period and ended up with 0 readings for both P and N. That is when we implemented our ATS. This was about 1 and a half years ago. We both perform regular water changes. I do 50 gallons per month on a 180 reef system, 150 gallons actual water volume, or 33% per month.

My P has risen to 0.25 over this time. Trueperc's rose to 2. This weekend I did another 33% water change, siphoned the sand bed, as I always do and get lots of nastry dirt out of it. I also used PhozDown http://www.oceanfreshaquarium.com/foz-down/ in conjunction with my water change and got my P to 0. My N is down to 20, from about 80 before the water change. My readings come from both API and Salifert. Personally I find API easier to use and read than Salifert. I don't have access to a Hannah Checker, but if Trueperc can find some and let me use them, I will report back.

I hope this is the info you are looking for Floyd. And thanks for all your efforts regarding the ATS. And you as well SRusso.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So trueperc and percula99, were you running only an algae scrubber during this period of phosphate increase? Any filter socks, carbon, etc (non-phosphate reducing media)?

At what point did you realize the P had increased (i.e. what made you decide to test)?

Thanks for the info

 

[eyesolator]

First of all, thanks for the thread! I have followed it off and on for a while and a couple of months ago decided to build a 10x10 scrubber. While still run GFO I don't change it near as often and my P has been at .00 (Hanna) for some time. My sump area is two 20 gal. longs side by side and one is used for coral grow out. The scrubber is really only lit strongly on one side by two cfls and the other side by a white (not sure of it's K value) led spot and some of the led light on the coral side of the sump.
My question is does anyone have any experience with this fixture? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-band-225-LED-Grow-Light-Panel-Hydroponic-Plant-Lamp-Blue-Red-Orange-White-/390407500133?forcev4exp=true#ht_3443wt_1139 I could easily adapt it to my system.
Pics of the system when it first started.

Thanks,
John

 

[sabbath]

As Trueperc stated earlier, he and I both cooked our LR over a five to six month period and ended up with 0 readings for both P and N. That is when we implemented our ATS. This was about 1 and a half years ago. We both perform regular water changes. I do 50 gallons per month on a 180 reef system, 150 gallons actual water volume, or 33% per month.

My P has risen to 0.25 over this time. Trueperc's rose to 2. This weekend I did another 33% water change, siphoned the sand bed, as I always do and get lots of nastry dirt out of it. I also used PhozDown http://www.oceanfreshaquarium.com/foz-down/ in conjunction with my water change and got my P to 0. My N is down to 20, from about 80 before the water change. My readings come from both API and Salifert. Personally I find API easier to use and read than Salifert. I don't have access to a Hannah Checker, but if Trueperc can find some and let me use them, I will report back.

I hope this is the info you are looking for Floyd. And thanks for all your efforts regarding the ATS. And you as well SRusso.

I'm I reading this right? Your ATS is struggling with both N & P?

 

[SPotter]

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

 

[percula99]

So trueperc and percula99, were you running only an algae scrubber during this period of phosphate increase? Any filter socks, carbon, etc (non-phosphate reducing media)?

At what point did you realize the P had increased (i.e. what made you decide to test)?

Thanks for the info

I have been running an ATI Bubble Master 250 protein skimmer the whole time. I used to run a phosphate reactor with GFO but increasingly ran into problems with the GFO turning into a solid mass, even though the GFO was tumbling nicely. There was enough flow. I have run a canister filter with carbon on occasions, but not on a regular basis.

The amount fed seems to be a primary concern to establishing the size of the screen used on the ATS. I have already duscussed this earlier with you, and you thought the screen size was fine. I do have a heavy bio load as I have many fish and I feed a lot. But again, feeding matters more than the number of fish.

I test my water semi regularly. I redecorated the tank after cooking the rock on Apr. 16/2011. P & N were 0. By mid August P was still 0, but N was 20. Late Oct. P was still 0, N was 40. Mid Jan and Feb, P was 0, N was 20. By June, P was 0.25 and N was 80.

Let it be known I need more flow and lighting. My screen is 13X13, flow was 250 GPH, since upped to 350 (yes I know I still need more). Lighting is using 42 watt equivalent CFL both sides.

I will let Trueperc describe his setup himself.

 

[percula99]

I'm I reading this right? Your ATS is struggling with both N & P?

So yes to your question.

 

[sabbath]

So yes to your question.

Thanks and good to know as I run Zeovit right now and the corals look great but I'm getting a little algae. So I just added a small AUS to it to hopfully deal with the algae part.

It is looking to me like the ATS are no different in coming up with the fine line balancing act. I thinking that I better stick with something to the affect of, 75% Zeo and 25% ATS and see how that goes.

I wonder how many people mix ATS with other methods to deal with N & P?

 

[trueperc]

Well for me the time of the cooking the rock and then resetting up the take is the same as percula99. I was running solely on an ATS At that time my ats was 22 inches wide and 13 inches long. I was running a 700gallon per hour pump and lite by 4 42w cfls in reflectors. I was off by a pit, it was a year when I noticed my issue now that percula99 put in the time table, he keeps a good journal on this stuff. That was a 210 with a heavy fish load. I was getting reading of 50 N and 1-2 P As of the start of summer I upgrade to a 300 gallon but reduce the ats to follow the more updated guidelines but like percula99 I didn't have the right flow or lights, as now on a 10 x 13 screen I only had a maxi 1200 and two 42w cfls. I have put back on the 700 GPH pump and still have to upgrade the lighting but my N is still 50s and p is at 2 unless I use other methods of bring it down. I also am now running a skimmer.

 

[jacob.morgan78]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo
You remove the screen to clean it otherwise breaking the algae up in the scraping process releases "juice" (for lack of a more thoughtful term at this particular moment) into the tank which can discolor the water.​

Thanks! The reason I ask is because I added my UAS to an existing setup and the only available space makes it an issue to remove. I knew this would be a problem but still wanted to use a scrubber. It's easier to just harvest it from the screen (and other parts of the fuge) while in the tank. I've done this a few times and the only thing I've noticed is that there's a bunch of stray "hairs" that end up going everywhere in my fuge (never see them go anywhere else but know they must). Anything else I should be worried about? I haven't noticed any discoloration.

Beside from that, it seems like I have more of it growing other places in my fuge besides on my screen. It's not in my display tank so I'm not worried about it growing in my fuge but worry that I'm doing something wrong. Anyways, thought I'd share.

Thanks for any help or guidance you guys can offer!

Any guidance or suggestions on this? Thanks!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

First of all, thanks for the thread! I have followed it off and on for a while and a couple of months ago decided to build a 10x10 scrubber. While still run GFO I don't change it near as often and my P has been at .00 (Hanna) for some time. My sump area is two 20 gal. longs side by side and one is used for coral grow out. The scrubber is really only lit strongly on one side by two cfls and the other side by a white (not sure of it's K value) led spot and some of the led light on the coral side of the sump.
My question is does anyone have any experience with this fixture? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quad-band-225-LED-Grow-Light-Panel-Hydroponic-Plant-Lamp-Blue-Red-Orange-White-/390407500133?forcev4exp=true#ht_3443wt_1139 I could easily adapt it to my system.
Pics of the system when it first started.

Thanks,
John

This fixture (there are many like it) is 225 LED but only 14W. These are cheap, low power LEDs. you need at least 1W LEDs, preferably 3W. The LP LEDs just don't have enough "punch". Maybe good for house plants but not for filtering. I've seen a couple builds where people used them, but you only grow according to what light is available (when it is a limiting factor) so a fixture like this would be good for a 10x10 screen that you only feed 1 cube/day, maybe. So it's kind of a waste of space. Might as well get a CFL flood and put it on a screen 1/4 the size.

I'm I reading this right? Your ATS is struggling with both N & P?

Scrubbers can struggle with nutrient reduction depending on how they are constructed and maintained, just like any filtration type.

I have been running an ATI Bubble Master 250 protein skimmer the whole time. I used to run a phosphate reactor with GFO but increasingly ran into problems with the GFO turning into a solid mass, even though the GFO was tumbling nicely. There was enough flow. I have run a canister filter with carbon on occasions, but not on a regular basis.

The amount fed seems to be a primary concern to establishing the size of the screen used on the ATS. I have already duscussed this earlier with you, and you thought the screen size was fine. I do have a heavy bio load as I have many fish and I feed a lot. But again, feeding matters more than the number of fish.

I test my water semi regularly. I redecorated the tank after cooking the rock on Apr. 16/2011. P & N were 0. By mid August P was still 0, but N was 20. Late Oct. P was still 0, N was 40. Mid Jan and Feb, P was 0, N was 20. By June, P was 0.25 and N was 80.

Let it be known I need more flow and lighting. My screen is 13X13, flow was 250 GPH, since upped to 350 (yes I know I still need more). Lighting is using 42 watt equivalent CFL both sides.

I will let Trueperc describe his setup himself.

I recall discussing your setup now. Too much going on to keep it all straight, also wanted a recap per the current N/P discussion...thanks!

What it sounds like to me with your setup is that you were running GFO which actually causes a P limitation, preventing algae growth at a high enough rate to keep N down. Why P started to rise along with N might be explained here shortly...

Thanks and good to know as I run Zeovit right now and the corals look great but I'm getting a little algae. So I just added a small AUS to it to hopfully deal with the algae part.

It is looking to me like the ATS are no different in coming up with the fine line balancing act. I thinking that I better stick with something to the affect of, 75% Zeo and 25% ATS and see how that goes.

I wonder how many people mix ATS with other methods to deal with N & P?

I have recently had discussions with someone regarding a potential symbiotic relationship between carbon dosing (zeo, BP, vodka, etc) and algae scrubbers. If you can, please try to keep track of your results on paper, keep some kind of log of observations, etc. I'll get in touch with you about that.

Well for me the time of the cooking the rock and then resetting up the take is the same as percula99. I was running solely on an ATS At that time my ats was 22 inches wide and 13 inches long. I was running a 700gallon per hour pump and lite by 4 42w cfls in reflectors. I was off by a pit, it was a year when I noticed my issue now that percula99 put in the time table, he keeps a good journal on this stuff. That was a 210 with a heavy fish load. I was getting reading of 50 N and 1-2 P As of the start of summer I upgrade to a 300 gallon but reduce the ats to follow the more updated guidelines but like percula99 I didn't have the right flow or lights, as now on a 10 x 13 screen I only had a maxi 1200 and two 42w cfls. I have put back on the 700 GPH pump and still have to upgrade the lighting but my N is still 50s and p is at 2 unless I use other methods of bring it down. I also am now running a skimmer.

I think I recall a few of your posts as well. If you get the scrubber running a little closer to where it should be, that should knock the N and P down pretty fast. When one gets to zero, and the other does not and/or it continues to rise, then there's the other puzzle piece that needs to be put in place. I don't mean to sound mysterious I just don't want to spoil it.

Thanks! The reason I ask is because I added my UAS to an existing setup and the only available space makes it an issue to remove. I knew this would be a problem but still wanted to use a scrubber. It's easier to just harvest it from the screen (and other parts of the fuge) while in the tank. I've done this a few times and the only thing I've noticed is that there's a bunch of stray "hairs" that end up going everywhere in my fuge (never see them go anywhere else but know they must). Anything else I should be worried about?​

If they are kind of brown and hair-like, and break up easily those are dinos, I get those on the screen, esp the UAS on start-up (first few months). They grow easily in the conditions at the scrubber but should not spread to the DT. But you probably do not want to be cleaning the screen in the sump becuase of this. Post a pic of your setup and maybe we can see a way to make it easier to remove.​

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

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Sent from my Keyboard using Phalanges!

 

[SPotter]

Sent from my Keyboard using Phalanges!

Darn kids!!!!! I didnt even see that one go thru.

 

[sabbath]

ATS + Zeo

ATS + Zeo

I have recently had discussions with someone regarding a potential symbiotic relationship between carbon dosing (zeo, BP, vodka, etc) and algae scrubbers. If you can, please try to keep track of your results on paper, keep some kind of log of observations, etc. I'll get in touch with you about that.

Will do! Be nice to get a base line before the scrubber kicks in. I have not checked P in a while. Every time I do with a Hanna checker it reads 0. But I still have some algae. (I know its bound up in the algae) No4 is usually around 2-4ppm. I will go run a couple tests now.