SantaMonica
Well-known member
Just let it grow since it is built.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
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SantaMonica
Well-known member
Yes, although if it looks like velvet then it's probably good periphyton that feeds lots of pods.
karimwassef
Active member
SM - got a picture of that "good red periphiton"?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
35 GPH/in is just a guideline, I've found that you can go less, this is probably best explained by karimwassef the other day here
karimwassef
Active member
The critical design issue I have right now is splash. I'm cleaning the plastic guard on the lights every other day! The frosting effect definetly impacts PAR.
I'm going to try and move the lights further away to try and reduce maintenance time. The PAR loss due to distance is probably less than the "frosting" loss
I'm thinking of adding a strong fan directed downwards to divert the wate droplets from the shield. That might cause more splashing elsewhere though.
Ideas?
I'm going to try and move the lights further away to try and reduce maintenance time. The PAR loss due to distance is probably less than the "frosting" loss
I'm thinking of adding a strong fan directed downwards to divert the wate droplets from the shield. That might cause more splashing elsewhere though.
Ideas?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
drape the screen in plastic wrap? Or 1/16 or 1/32" plexi. Lexan (polycarb) would probably be a bit better due to warping
karimwassef
Active member
I use 1:32 now. still needs cleaning and that's the maintenance I want to avoid.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Yeah but i mean over the screen, not on the light fixture. Spray that hits that would not dry out, since the spray would constantly keep it wet.
Also if you do it right, and the cover is close enough, you might get growth that reaches out far enough to make contact and start to "pool" the water inbetween the pane and the screen, that's the onset of 3D growth, and you can get that with an open air screen it's just a bit less probably due to gravity
Also if you do it right, and the cover is close enough, you might get growth that reaches out far enough to make contact and start to "pool" the water inbetween the pane and the screen, that's the onset of 3D growth, and you can get that with an open air screen it's just a bit less probably due to gravity
karimwassef
Active member
Hmmm. Wouldn't that reduce the water/air interface by trapping water in the gap and effectively submerging the screen in the thick film of water between the plastic sheets?
If not, how do you maintain a controlled gap so the plastic film isn't far enough to dry and create salt frosting, but also not close enough to sandwich the screen reducing the air/water interface?
If not, how do you maintain a controlled gap so the plastic film isn't far enough to dry and create salt frosting, but also not close enough to sandwich the screen reducing the air/water interface?
SantaMonica
Well-known member
You can look at any rocks in a reef. If there is no coral or algae on it, it will be periphyton.
karimwassef
Active member
I have lots of stuff in my tank that I can't conclusively identify... It may be algae... It may be something else. A picture would go a long way towards differentiating between them.
jason2459
Well-known member
You do realize periphyton is a very wide encompassing group which include phototrophic and heterotrophic organisms. Which both of those are very broad terms. Micro and macro algae are a part of the periphyton phototrophic group as are many other nuisances like cyano and dinoflagellates. You've mentioned periphyton many times with out defining what kinds of periphyton you want. Since the ATS is supposed to help reduce many types of periphyton from your rocks you may want to define that better.
karimwassef
Active member
That's what I'm asking .. What is good rock coverage and what is bad?
jason2459
Well-known member
As with everything in life to much of a good thing is bad.
Like many things people don't want are good for our systems. Like diatoms and algae IMO. But to much of either are not good.
karimwassef
Active member
For example: is this stuff on my flow diverters good or bad?
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg"/></a>
Excuse the algae. The diverters are suspended so most cuc can't get to them and fish mouths leave tufts.
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 56E8F8F3-1056-43DF-894D-9D49A863CD16_zpsghnlp1cn.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 35AA9A34-F999-4635-817B-F5A963BC1A51_zpsvnlce56b.jpg"/></a>
Excuse the algae. The diverters are suspended so most cuc can't get to them and fish mouths leave tufts.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Well, yeah basically...this is one of the reasons why the 3D growth is more effective - suspending the algae in water allows the base of the growth mat to become more exposed to light so it can keep growing rather than getting shaded, that's why enclosed growth chambers that are sized properly to encourage this type of growth work better.
In my pic posted a few days ago
When I cut the pump the algae stayed right where it is in this pic above. I don't think there is much merit to the physical air/water interface of an open-air scrubber, and if there is, the benefit of the 3D enclosed box I believe outweighs it significantly. Plenty of CO2 and O2 in the water and it's what happens at the boundary layer that matters.
One could actually argue that in a packed 3D growth chamber like above, the lower you get in the growth mass (physically, towards the bottom of the chamber) the lower the flow gets, and you would expect to see less effective growth there...but you don't, at least, I never have. So there is probably a layered effect, where the top algae gets higher flow and grows a bit better or differently, and the lower sections have slightly different growth attributes and flow characteristics, honestly I haven't concerned myself with it because it's never seemed to have been a point of "failure" or rather a node of "improvement needed"...
you don't really have to control it. If you drape a screen in plastic wrap, it becomes a dynamic gap, or really, no gap at all but it's just not restrictive. You end up with little pockets of 3D growth everywhere. So if you placed a sheet of material about 1/2" from the screen on both sides and just let growth and gravity take over, you would likely get some bowing and variation in growth in areas but I'm betting that you would have pockets of thick growth that take off when 3D effect hits.
karimwassef
Active member
Hmmm... Making me rethink old hypotheses...
If 3D growth is just as effective as water/surface growth, then the concept of turf needing air exposure to grow fast and thick is false. Is that what you're saying?
I have three kinds of ATS and all work, but they're very different.
The traditional waterfall ATS is massive but makes a mess splashing. It was generating a lot of material but I had to take it offline when I left for vacation and just restarted it today. Interesting to note that the turf threads here were over two feet long. They would basically continue to grow downwards with gravity and then layer more long strands on top.
The overflow ATS is like your 3D. It's a long narrow glass box with water flowing down the long path and sunlight from above. I have it on a floating screen to try and get it exposed to air occasionally. My surge effectively does this too by changing the water level drastically in the overflow from nearly dry to completely submerged for minutes at a time. It has gotten so thick that I just left it alone to cultivate pods. Unfortunately, it became an incredible temptation for my hungry snails that practically ganged up and broke through the weak parts of my eggcrate defenses. They're now constantly testing my ability to keep them in the DT! Turbos are like tanks when they're hungry. Hermit crabs have also been swarming in through the 1/2" windows, but that's another thread.
The third is my sump floating ATS. I basically put a screen on eggcrate and created a lever arm at the end of my mid-sump compartment. This screen now rises and falls with my flow and surge. It's gotten thick too, but different. It's motley with different colors and textures. This one is horizontal which unfortunately means that it traps detritus too. But maybe that's a good thing because that allows pods to live inside it feeding on the detritus...
I'll take some pictures.
If 3D growth is just as effective as water/surface growth, then the concept of turf needing air exposure to grow fast and thick is false. Is that what you're saying?
I have three kinds of ATS and all work, but they're very different.
The traditional waterfall ATS is massive but makes a mess splashing. It was generating a lot of material but I had to take it offline when I left for vacation and just restarted it today. Interesting to note that the turf threads here were over two feet long. They would basically continue to grow downwards with gravity and then layer more long strands on top.
The overflow ATS is like your 3D. It's a long narrow glass box with water flowing down the long path and sunlight from above. I have it on a floating screen to try and get it exposed to air occasionally. My surge effectively does this too by changing the water level drastically in the overflow from nearly dry to completely submerged for minutes at a time. It has gotten so thick that I just left it alone to cultivate pods. Unfortunately, it became an incredible temptation for my hungry snails that practically ganged up and broke through the weak parts of my eggcrate defenses. They're now constantly testing my ability to keep them in the DT! Turbos are like tanks when they're hungry. Hermit crabs have also been swarming in through the 1/2" windows, but that's another thread.
The third is my sump floating ATS. I basically put a screen on eggcrate and created a lever arm at the end of my mid-sump compartment. This screen now rises and falls with my flow and surge. It's gotten thick too, but different. It's motley with different colors and textures. This one is horizontal which unfortunately means that it traps detritus too. But maybe that's a good thing because that allows pods to live inside it feeding on the detritus...
I'll take some pictures.
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