Where would you like to start? Martin Moe, Julian Sprung, Charles Delbeek...or me?
Anywhere? I couldn't find any paper that either of them authored which discusses this. Can you link anything?
And - the chloropyll release is another fun adventure...you may want to study the impact of that one. In like respect to what skimmers remove, scrubbers utilize *some* of thesecompounds, but- release some as well as the individual algal cells ripen/die - or in some cases go sexual and are attempting reproduction.(Dependant on the species of choice, etc) As well - when you clean the scrubber, there may be residual organic of the above mentioned, and others which get back in to the water column
I can't say I've ever heard of anyone using contemporary scrubbers encountering this problem. I have heard that in the past it was not necessarily customary to physically export the algae that is being scraped off of the plates, the belief being that releasing it into the water column was providing food for the inhabitants. It is very easy to see how this would result in yellow water.
But with the methodology that I'm aware of - removing the plate, scrubbing and rinsing outside of the tank, on a religiously weekly basis - I don't see how the algae could ever build up and ripen/die/lyse at a rate that would cause discoloration of the water.
Similarly, in the past I have had aquariums with terrible long-term nutrient problems, and for months at a time the rock work and glass would be covered in varieties of algae, and I never experienced this yellow water.
Only if you are talking about terribly small - and likely under-sized systems would a true "five minute cleaning" be sufficient, again without adding back a lot of the nasties mentioned above.
I guess it's a matter of scale. The average person with a 100 gallon tank that's running a turf scrubber on the world wide web seems to have an algae screen the size of a dinner plate give or take. And I would concede that that weekly cleaning could take up to ten minutes to scrape the algae off in the sink etc. I would imagine that the screens at the Smithsonian are an entirely different story though
This month...but it seems to go , in merry go round fashion - the choices that are the next best algae...I have seen the gambit. Turf, or any other algaes WILL inhabit the display within a couple of years of setting up an algal turf scrubber. It is just not possible to prevent ANY from getting back into the display
I guess I haven't seen the "gambit". All of the turf scrubbers I have followed thus far have, like I say, not been relying on actual turf algae to operate. No algae is introduced to the system for the turf scrubbers to work. Instead, the scrubbers rely on miscellaneous microalgaes that are already present in the system to populate the screen. The screen is created with the right water flow and lighting to provide a preferential niche for these "nuissance" algaes, and whichever species in the system happens to be the most dynamic at any given time will take hold of the screen.
No - you did not. That is usually the next comment tho
Rest assured, this seems silly to me as well. :beer:
I have great respect for Paul - but let's qualify his aquarium: Not a "reef" tank, by the typical appearance/definitions - and more importantly how many of us just go out to the beach, and get our water for water changes??? he is using reverse flow undergravel filtering as well....And I am duly impressed with him tenacity to the "old tried and true. But - folks like Paul are rare individuals, and due our wonder and respect. Not really a paralell most can draw from...Intersting that there are always the "1%" in any endeavor, - and we need that for a number of reasons to continue learning what to do , and not do - but really - if the method is better, providing better results...WHY is it not the popular choice? if it saves time or money, or even works well enough to impress perspective clients/customer, then where is Inland Oceans today? Why do the various speakers at MACNA or other conferences not keep pushing this system as *THE* approach for a better aquarium system???? Why do we not see wholesalers, or large scale frag farming filtered this way? Did you ever see their systems? Impressive in size - and very yellow looking.
First and foremost, I love what Paul has done with the beer bottles in his setup. So much, that last time I was at a bonfire, I tossed in a beer bottle and melted it to an interesting contorted shape, and it will be a fun feature of my next setup.
With that out of the way, I believe I have an explanation for why the turf scrubbers are not more popular in spite of the fact that they are efficacious: Protein skimmers work, and much more reliably. While a person can purchase a protein skimmer immediately, that will have his or her water sparkling immediately and permanently, how can you go wrong? With so many unknowns already in a reef tank, with water chemistry, nuisance species etc, why not clutch on to a device that works so effectively and consistently?
Meanwhile, scrubbers seem to be a lot more temperamental, and can be doomed from the beginning if they are not set up correctly. They add another big monkey wrench to the equation. Naturally, if I were a coral farmer or ran a public aquarium, I would definitely not want to take my chances when another device is proven to work so much better and more consistently.
Meanwhile, if I have gotten the correct information on the history of algae scrubbers, they did get a rough start, and for many a rough reputation in the reefkeeping community with the methodology that was employed in the past.
Sensational hyperbole......You must have learned that word somewhere expensive! I am duly impressed.
James (Acrylics). I said something in his thread a long time ago like "The thing about acrylic, is if you look at it wrong it will scratch." He said if I speak in hyperbole it's pretty difficult to have a real conversation, and it made perfect sense to me. But yea, each year my tuition amounts to the cost of a luxury car
What's to tell? My life history? I am afraid it would bore you, and frankly...you use of English just scares me Or you could just do your research on me! :beer:
It would be a lot of fun to hear more about the Smithsonian setup if you were employed there. Research you? Are you published or something?
