algea scrubber
- Thread starter jimmyrow
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Jstdv8
New member
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You need to build the scrubber according to the vloume of water in your tank.
you need 1 square inch of screen lighted two sided for every gallon of water in your display tank. And you need a minimum of 35 gallons per hour per square inch of screen made.
So for example for a 100 gallon tank you could use a 10" x 10" screen (plastic screen with little square holes in it, bought at fabric store and then roughed up with a holesaw held in your hand till its very prickly)
So with the 10 x 10 screen you have 100 square inches so you would need a minimum of 350 gallons per hour flowing over the screen.
I use a mag 7 (more than 350 gph) on a 10 x 12" screen. with two power compact lights 27 watts each with cheap shoplight like reflectors. I got the lights and the reflectors at home depot. Kelvin value of the lights should be between 3000k and 5000k.
The build is very simple. figure out how wide your screen is going to be then take a 1" or 3/4" pvc tube and cut it about 3-4" longer than the width of the screen. Then take a dremel tool and cut a slot in the tube the exact same length as the screen so it fits up inside the slot tight. run some tie wraps through the screen at the top and around the pipe to hold it onto the pipe.
now use two 90 degree turns for the corners of each side of the pipe and run those down whatever distance you need so that the screen when on its little stand you are building sits about 1" in the water at the bottom. add a T at the bottom of both runs on the sides and a short extension off both sides of the T with a cap on the extension and that will make your legs. Put another T in one of the legs coming down for the water in from the pump. attach a pump to it. Put the lights within 4" of the screen and let it run opposite light schedule of the DT lights (this will help with PH) for 18 hours on and 6 hours off.
takes about 2 hours to build from scratch and most of that time is spent roughing up the screen.
Clean one side of the screen every week no mater what, even if it's not growing much of anything. You may want to swish the screen around in the sump water to wash off some of the copepods into your sump before you clean it in freshwater and kill all the pods living on the algae.
You need to build the scrubber according to the vloume of water in your tank.
you need 1 square inch of screen lighted two sided for every gallon of water in your display tank. And you need a minimum of 35 gallons per hour per square inch of screen made.
So for example for a 100 gallon tank you could use a 10" x 10" screen (plastic screen with little square holes in it, bought at fabric store and then roughed up with a holesaw held in your hand till its very prickly)
So with the 10 x 10 screen you have 100 square inches so you would need a minimum of 350 gallons per hour flowing over the screen.
I use a mag 7 (more than 350 gph) on a 10 x 12" screen. with two power compact lights 27 watts each with cheap shoplight like reflectors. I got the lights and the reflectors at home depot. Kelvin value of the lights should be between 3000k and 5000k.
The build is very simple. figure out how wide your screen is going to be then take a 1" or 3/4" pvc tube and cut it about 3-4" longer than the width of the screen. Then take a dremel tool and cut a slot in the tube the exact same length as the screen so it fits up inside the slot tight. run some tie wraps through the screen at the top and around the pipe to hold it onto the pipe.
now use two 90 degree turns for the corners of each side of the pipe and run those down whatever distance you need so that the screen when on its little stand you are building sits about 1" in the water at the bottom. add a T at the bottom of both runs on the sides and a short extension off both sides of the T with a cap on the extension and that will make your legs. Put another T in one of the legs coming down for the water in from the pump. attach a pump to it. Put the lights within 4" of the screen and let it run opposite light schedule of the DT lights (this will help with PH) for 18 hours on and 6 hours off.
takes about 2 hours to build from scratch and most of that time is spent roughing up the screen.
Clean one side of the screen every week no mater what, even if it's not growing much of anything. You may want to swish the screen around in the sump water to wash off some of the copepods into your sump before you clean it in freshwater and kill all the pods living on the algae.
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imagex
New member
this form of filtration is definitely proven to work... one of my old friends worked at inland aquatics in terre haute IN and they dont use skimmers just a huge ATS system and those have been going for over 15 yrs and counting..
on the ats forums theres a guy (Santa Monica) on there thats made a unit that is really good.. kindof costly... the main concern with the ats systems is having enough flow and light on both sides of the knitting sheets... and use like 3 layers of the sheets all roughed up like how widmer described... also it's good to run 2 systems cause when u clean one the other is still in operation never clean the full screen... if only one screen clean half then rotate weekly.. this is really important when solely relying on the ATS system... still reading on the ATS system currently but it's kindof hard to perfect without added costs to your existing system.. and LEDs arent proven yet to light a ATS system yet...
I've been personally running a ATS system on a 300g and it's taking me a little bit to perfect but think all i need is more lights... forgot what the breakdown of the square inch to gallons is and too lazy to look it up but heres the forums for ats systems
Directing traffic to other forums is not permitted.
oh forgot to add the screen most use is the knitting screen... it can be found at walmart in the crafts section... by the yarn and stuff... the other parts you need is like a 1" pvc some elbows and a couple of tee's and a barbed fitting for input..
but that info about the pc lights that mite be what i need... i'm using the ol workshop thing with a spiral compact... definitely have to try that compared to what i'm doing now..
on the ats forums theres a guy (Santa Monica) on there thats made a unit that is really good.. kindof costly... the main concern with the ats systems is having enough flow and light on both sides of the knitting sheets... and use like 3 layers of the sheets all roughed up like how widmer described... also it's good to run 2 systems cause when u clean one the other is still in operation never clean the full screen... if only one screen clean half then rotate weekly.. this is really important when solely relying on the ATS system... still reading on the ATS system currently but it's kindof hard to perfect without added costs to your existing system.. and LEDs arent proven yet to light a ATS system yet...
I've been personally running a ATS system on a 300g and it's taking me a little bit to perfect but think all i need is more lights... forgot what the breakdown of the square inch to gallons is and too lazy to look it up but heres the forums for ats systems
Directing traffic to other forums is not permitted.
oh forgot to add the screen most use is the knitting screen... it can be found at walmart in the crafts section... by the yarn and stuff... the other parts you need is like a 1" pvc some elbows and a couple of tee's and a barbed fitting for input..
but that info about the pc lights that mite be what i need... i'm using the ol workshop thing with a spiral compact... definitely have to try that compared to what i'm doing now..
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Jstdv8
New member
those spiral compacts are what i was talking about. sounds like you are suing the same thing as me.
the breakdown for lights is a minimum of 1/2 a watt per gallon if i remember correctly.
Also before Santamonica made the enclosd one he is selling (really nice design) he started with one made in a trash can and introduced it to all these forums like this one.
The ones like yours and mine work just fine. his new one is enclosed with more powerful lighting is all.
the breakdown for lights is a minimum of 1/2 a watt per gallon if i remember correctly.
Also before Santamonica made the enclosd one he is selling (really nice design) he started with one made in a trash can and introduced it to all these forums like this one.
The ones like yours and mine work just fine. his new one is enclosed with more powerful lighting is all.
jimmyrow
New member
got tired of seeing that buckit with all its light next to my tank. so i bought a new stand reworked everything and got my ats over my sump in the bottum of my new stand. If u have the room its way better then the buckit cuz the lights dont interfer with my dt eneymore can acktually see the moon lights and my dt gets 14 hours of dark again. scents i redid everything my screen is new and at about a day in the pics.
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herring_fish
Crazy Designer
I used an ATS of my own design for 8 years before relocating and I restarted my tank with the same one last year. I love my algae scrubber. While it is not necessary, I read Dr. Adey's book. I talked to him. I took an extensive tour, inside and out, of the Smithsonian exhibit. This philosophy appeals to me but it is not for everyone. I like it because I like to feed a lot and I want the food to stay suspended in the water column as long as possible. I don't use any mechanical filtration at all and it works for me.
Santa Monica left this sight because of a visceral attack of the sort that you can see at the beginning of this thread. Some of it may have been brought on buy his zeal. I tried (off line) to get some moderation from him in that area, to no avail. Never the less, the sight that he is on now is a good source of basic information and examples of successful ATS users. I will not try to direct you there but you can probably find it on your own if you need to find it.
Algal Turf Scrubbers (ATS) are a good way to go but not necessarily the best things on earth. It is just a different way of keeping your tank clean but it does work. Unfortunately, you do have to build it according to some rules. You can look a few posts back to get them. You can't build a half baked unit and expect it to work right. On the other hand, if you do build an ATS that has enough water flow and turbulence, has a big enough screen and has enough light "¦oh and by the way, if you clean the screen appropriately, an ATS will work very well. You can make up, in one area, for a small weakness in another.
I have never had yellow water. Using a well built ATS will starve out hair algae in the main tank because it out competes for nutrients and lighting. It can't eat enough phosphates to let you go without an RO unit but with one, they should stay at zero.
I built a classic dump bucket style ATS that is a foot above my tank so that I can get a good splash in the tank. The splash isn't necessary for anything. I just like the way that it looks and sounds. I move the dump bucket up and down, balancing splash sound and looks, until I got it the way I liked it. Of course that is when the door is closed on the hood. This design isn't for everyone. That goes back to the love of experimentation mentioned earlier. I will direct you to my sight where there are some old articles that I wrote and some video. http://asaherring.com
Santa Monica left this sight because of a visceral attack of the sort that you can see at the beginning of this thread. Some of it may have been brought on buy his zeal. I tried (off line) to get some moderation from him in that area, to no avail. Never the less, the sight that he is on now is a good source of basic information and examples of successful ATS users. I will not try to direct you there but you can probably find it on your own if you need to find it.
Algal Turf Scrubbers (ATS) are a good way to go but not necessarily the best things on earth. It is just a different way of keeping your tank clean but it does work. Unfortunately, you do have to build it according to some rules. You can look a few posts back to get them. You can't build a half baked unit and expect it to work right. On the other hand, if you do build an ATS that has enough water flow and turbulence, has a big enough screen and has enough light "¦oh and by the way, if you clean the screen appropriately, an ATS will work very well. You can make up, in one area, for a small weakness in another.
I have never had yellow water. Using a well built ATS will starve out hair algae in the main tank because it out competes for nutrients and lighting. It can't eat enough phosphates to let you go without an RO unit but with one, they should stay at zero.
I built a classic dump bucket style ATS that is a foot above my tank so that I can get a good splash in the tank. The splash isn't necessary for anything. I just like the way that it looks and sounds. I move the dump bucket up and down, balancing splash sound and looks, until I got it the way I liked it. Of course that is when the door is closed on the hood. This design isn't for everyone. That goes back to the love of experimentation mentioned earlier. I will direct you to my sight where there are some old articles that I wrote and some video. http://asaherring.com
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
Thanks for the excellent contribution to this thread
The more case reports like this that I hear, the more I get excited to experiment with them on my next setup. Got any pictures handy you could post to this thread?
I agree 100% with the part about Santa Monica - From spending time on his forum, I've certainly picked up on the 'zeal' that you describe, but there are certainly some hot-heads on this forum which somehow feel the need to relentlessly come down on algae scrubber systems.
Anyways, thanks again.
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
Kcress-
That's a really high-quality looking device you've made. Can you comment on the growth you've gotten from the LEDs vs CFL? Also, are those reds true 660 nm or the more common 630 nm?
When I end up building my ATS, I'm going to be using the Cree LEDs to light it up. For the 12" by 12" screen, I'm planning on using a few warm white on one half, cool white on another, and maybe a couple of the osram 660 nm golden dragon series. After watching growth, I'll probably switch out LEDs accordingly.
That's a really high-quality looking device you've made. Can you comment on the growth you've gotten from the LEDs vs CFL? Also, are those reds true 660 nm or the more common 630 nm?
When I end up building my ATS, I'm going to be using the Cree LEDs to light it up. For the 12" by 12" screen, I'm planning on using a few warm white on one half, cool white on another, and maybe a couple of the osram 660 nm golden dragon series. After watching growth, I'll probably switch out LEDs accordingly.
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
General questions for anyone so inclined to answer:
I originally had my heart set on a horizontal (one-sided) screen which water would flow across. But after playing in the kitchen (running the faucet over a dinner plate) I realized that even a slight incline vastly increases the water flow. So at this point, I'm thinking maybe I should have the plate at something closer to a 25 degree angle from horizontal.
Should I go ahead and plan for the incline, or would the flat horizontal still work great if I use like 4 square inches per gallon?
I originally had my heart set on a horizontal (one-sided) screen which water would flow across. But after playing in the kitchen (running the faucet over a dinner plate) I realized that even a slight incline vastly increases the water flow. So at this point, I'm thinking maybe I should have the plate at something closer to a 25 degree angle from horizontal.
Should I go ahead and plan for the incline, or would the flat horizontal still work great if I use like 4 square inches per gallon?
kcress
New member
widdy; Comment? I ran that unit only as a test. Had lots of little issues that precluded it working really well. To rectify the issues would take so much modding I decided to go one-sided with it. I routed off one side and made a ceramic plate for the turf.
I switched to CFL and grew some monster turf. Which showed that just running water across a horizontal plate is a complete bust. Don't do it.
What happens is the turf builds up out of the flow. This routes the water elsewhere which robs other areas. It's a disaster. If you want horizontal you need a dump system that somehow provides a wave across everything.
Otherwise you need steep, like 45 degrees or more. Of course now that puts you at such an angle that if you went a little farther you could light two sides and have double the AT working area.
If you're totally vertically challenged with your setup then go ahead, just make sure you do a surge system.
I switched to CFL and grew some monster turf. Which showed that just running water across a horizontal plate is a complete bust. Don't do it.
What happens is the turf builds up out of the flow. This routes the water elsewhere which robs other areas. It's a disaster. If you want horizontal you need a dump system that somehow provides a wave across everything.
Otherwise you need steep, like 45 degrees or more. Of course now that puts you at such an angle that if you went a little farther you could light two sides and have double the AT working area.
If you're totally vertically challenged with your setup then go ahead, just make sure you do a surge system.
xdannyxrocksx
New member
@widmer, is your screen goign to be two sided?
i will like to contribute to this thread by posting my design..been running this baby for 8 months, skimmerless, and so far i have had great results.
Scrubbers feeds from my overflow.
Picture of the set up not close up.
This one if a close up picture of my design. All simple plumbing.
Picture of the set up for a better look of how the water flows to my screen.
Picture of my system fully enclosed.
It is a two sides screen. I have a Rio return pump. I use 2 CFL Bulbs each 26 watts each.
i will like to contribute to this thread by posting my design..been running this baby for 8 months, skimmerless, and so far i have had great results.
It is a two sides screen. I have a Rio return pump. I use 2 CFL Bulbs each 26 watts each.
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xdannyxrocksx
New member
excuse the attached thumbnail.
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
thx for the reply kcress.. I guess I'll have to change my plans. I originally wanted to go totally horizontal because no matter what my scrubber is going to be table-top (as a display), and I wanted to set up a small LED projection system so that I could have the light on the ceiling for this thing just like the aquarium.
But I suppose going vertical wouldn't be all that bad in my situation; I'll have an excuse to try making the LEDs aquarium-water-cooled.
danny- It's going to be one-sided. I'm actually going to use cement plates as the screen instead of the plastic material everyone's using. Because it's going to be for display rather than hidden in a cabinet, I'm trying to go with natural materials. So I picked up a really awesome glazed 5-gallon ceramic bowl that will be the foundation of it, and the rest will be built up out of cement. Like a table fountain, but with a purpose in life.
Great pics btw, it looks like it's very easy to operate, and that algae is rich. That can't be just one week's growth is it? Also, what are your aquarium specs again?
But I suppose going vertical wouldn't be all that bad in my situation; I'll have an excuse to try making the LEDs aquarium-water-cooled.
danny- It's going to be one-sided. I'm actually going to use cement plates as the screen instead of the plastic material everyone's using. Because it's going to be for display rather than hidden in a cabinet, I'm trying to go with natural materials. So I picked up a really awesome glazed 5-gallon ceramic bowl that will be the foundation of it, and the rest will be built up out of cement. Like a table fountain, but with a purpose in life.
Great pics btw, it looks like it's very easy to operate, and that algae is rich. That can't be just one week's growth is it? Also, what are your aquarium specs again?
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