algea scrubber

[King_Richard]

Yeah, I have been looking for some mylar myself... then my wife walked some in in the form of ballons for her baby shower. Now that's over... :smokin:
What should I use to glue the mylar to the inside of the drop light? Does mylar melt?

On my 26w CFL's it hasn't melted and I've been running that for about 6-7months. For glueing, I've thought about using the spray glue that's used for car liners but haven't tried it yet, instead I did the old ducktape method! Not pretty, but it worked out alright. I've been using the emergency blankets in the camping section at walmart for the mylar film but I intend on buying some better grade stuff online. I'll be lining my canopy with that stuff along with whatever I come up with for the scrubber.

I like the way you're thinking. But as far as I can tell, between Cree's cool-neutral-warm XP-G series, there isn't actually any difference in the parts of the spectrum suppled (except that the warm whites extend it further into the red), there is just a difference in the relative amount of the parts supplied.

I just glanced at k ratings and saw the XP-G's at:

Cool White: 5,000-8300k
Neutral White: 3,700-5,000k
Warm White: 2,600-3,700k

With those 3, we'd have a pretty good coverage. What ratio to use? I still haven't narrowed that down. That's partially the reason for running one daylight and one softwhite CFL on both sides of the screen for now. I figure if I watch how the algae grows within the next couple days it'll let me know if I should be using more Neutral's or more Warm Whites in the LED build or an equal amount of both.

Thinking about it a bit more, the daylight CFL's are at 6,500k so I could probally just leave out the Cool Whites and stick to a 1:1 of NW:WW and be fine. I like the idea of that and unless someone see's a problem with the 1:1 then that'll be the way I go.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I have read this and a few other threads. The older threads said that turf algae was better and you needed surge and possible air time (algae exposed to air). These hanging scrubber sounds like what ever grows is what you use.

I don't have a lot of room to hang a screen. So what would be my best option?
1) Slanted screen one side only.
2) Channl with running water and screen on the bottom
3) Some sort of a dump system

Thanks

 

[widmer]

Yea true turf algae has totally gone out of style. In fact, ATS (algae turf scrubber) is a total misnomer these days, and I think we should actually be calling them MAS (micro algae screens). Wanna start a new trend with me?

The cruxes of this new style are 1) lots of light 2) high (hopefully turbulent) flow and 3) weekly cleaning which must translate to easily removable screen.

I originally wanted to come in and start with a totally horizontal screen, but was advised strongly against it. Apparently vertical is just best because it is most conducive to high flow.

There's nothing wrong with doing one side only. I know it's what I'll be doing.

Hope these bits of info help...

 

[TheFishMan65]

Algae Scrubbing System - Uh I guess not.

Would you say high flow or turbulent is more important? Tipping tray is probably more turbulent, but a angled screen will probably be a faster flow.

Thanks Widmer, that is sort of what I thought, but just qualifying.

 

[kcress]

The most effective is the verticle with lots of water. If you angle it doesn't work well. I've done extensive studies on angled. It's all over on the Other site. As soon as the turf starts to grow it cause surface islands that divides the water flow with great detriment to the whole process. On a vertical screen the same thing happens but the surface tension of water is enough that the water flow is retained on the back side of the islands. This allows it to continue to wet turf below the islands. Not so on angled screens.

Teeter totter screens which send waves down the screen are able to wash like a tsunami clear across the tiny islands and avoid the issue. Of course they are single sided and mechanical(both negatives) but are a bit more fun and can provide a surge.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

fishman, describe your intended location. Maybe there's a way to make it work. I've gone through several iterations of design on several tanks trying to fit things together.

As for the rules to follow, it's 1 sq in screen/gallon of system water and 1 w/sq in of screen.

If you go horizontal, you double the sq in. If you go one-sided, you double the sq in. So if you run a horizontal one-sided screen, it needs to be 4 sq in/gallon and 1 w/sq in so you end up with a screen 4x as big with 4x the light. So strongly consider that before going horizontal/slanted.

Like I said, post dimensions (of sump, distance from top of sump to bottom of tank/stand, available space, other equipment in the way, plumbing, etc).

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

As promised, here is my setup:

power compacts on both sides
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/1.jpg" width="400" height="300">

algae after just a few days (less than a week)
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/2.jpg" width="400" height="300">

return pump
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/3.jpg" width="400" height="300">

gravity fed (double 3/4" pipes connected to a single 1" pipe)
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/4.jpg" width="400" height="300">

mini overflow (just enough to keep the water above the outlets to reduce the noise.
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/5.jpg" width="400" height="300">

inlet back to the tank from the pump
<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/6.jpg" width="400" height="300">

excuse how crappy the walls look. School has been kicking me in the butt and i havent had a chance to clean it. I have noticed that my fish and stuff have been enjoying it though (eating it) same with my long spine urchin.

 

[srusso]

bluescrnOdeth, Your screen is not rough enough. How long have you have your algae scrubber running? I think in the long term, algae will have a hard time attaching to the screen. The lighting and flow look like they should work well.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

This one has only been running less than a week. I havent had any issues with the algae grabbing hold of it though i have thought of running some sand paper over it. but why fix something thats not broke. I have been using this type of screen for the past year. My last scrubber was too small and it was only being fed by 1 o fmy 3/4" pipes, but i just modified my whole setup. Should be back to normal within a couple weeks.

 

[srusso]

This one has only been running less than a week. I havent had any issues with the algae grabbing hold of it though i have thought of running some sand paper over it. but why fix something thats not broke. I have been using this type of screen for the past year. My last scrubber was too small and it was only being fed by 1 o fmy 3/4" pipes, but i just modified my whole setup. Should be back to normal within a couple weeks.

I would love to see some pictures of your last scrubber if you have them.

A lot of people report (including me)when a screen that is not rough enough is used, nothing more than powder algae can stick to the screen. This type of algae is not effective to maintain to tank.

Additionally when larger types of algae do began to grow, they are unable to keep hold and fall off the screen into your sump, re-releasing any phosphates or nitrates back into your water.

What type of screen are you using?
What type of algae grew on your last scrubber?

You are correct, you shouldn't change something that works for you. Please post pictures of your harvest each week. It is very important for documentation.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Turbo,

I was hoping to use LEDs, but with the price I was worried about splash. I only have about 9 inches above my sump it is 18 wide so I could get the surface area. However, I want to grow some macro algea for my tang and I run bio pellets. All these will compete for the nitrates and phosphates.

The tank is a 75 and a 40 gallon sump so maybe 90 gallons total.

How bad is it to have a piece of clear plastic between the lights and the screen. I have read that because the water stays laminar there is little salt creep. Any one with first hand experience .

 

[widmer]

A thin layer of plastic should be zero problem. LED optics are made out of a very thick layer of plastic :lol:

Another member on here was mounting LEDs on aluminum U channel, and then sliding it into one of those thin plastic fluorescent bulb protecting tubes that you can get at the hardware store for a couple bucks. Of course you would need to have a fan to push air through the end of it, but I think it's an excellent idea.

 

[srusso]

a thin layer of plastic should be zero problem. Led optics are made out of a very thick layer of plastic :lol:

Another member on here was mounting leds on aluminum u channel, and then sliding it into one of those thin plastic fluorescent bulb protecting tubes that you can get at the hardware store for a couple bucks. Of course you would need to have a fan to push air through the end of it, but i think it's an excellent idea.

+1

 

[TheFishMan65]

That was sort of what I thought, but did not know if salt caused a problem on the cover. How far should the guard be from the screen?

 

[widmer]

I'm sort of curious about other peoples' experiences with spray as well - after all, I'm attempting to make a table-top display ATS which will end up looking sort of like a desk fountain. It will have a standard vertical screen, although my material won't actually be that plastic canvas. The question, is how bad should I expect the spray to be?

If need be I can put some sort of a guard around both the top and bottom edge of the screen if there is any spray coming from these areas, but having to put up some sort of big panel would kind of ruin the whole display look...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

No issue with salt creep. It doesn't happen that fast, and since you're cleaning the screen weekly you just wipe any off the plastic. I don't even get it in the enclosed box design I run.

You could definitely fit a vertical scrubber in that space, the only issue then would be getting it in and out for maintenance. A simple enclosed box with a 24" long x 5" wide light fixture like this one (which I plan to purchase and evaluate)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110648722464&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI

on each side doesn't really take up that much space. The whole unit would be 24" long x 6-7 inches tall x 6 inches wide and would have 100 sq in of screen, so it would be overpowered. With a 40g sump (40 breeder?) you would still have plenty of room for other equipment.

You probably wouldn't have much luck growing the macro algae, but the algae growth is dependent on the light cycle. So it would take some messing around with the "ON" cycle of the ATS, but I'm sure you could find a successful mix of ATS and Refugium light cycle timing.

As for the bio-pellets, from what little I have read from literature from manufacturers, it appears that they would no longer be necessary eventually. This of course would save you the $ required to purchase replacement media and electricity cost for running an additional pump (unless it's plumbed to the overflow). You might keep it for a while until the ATS catches up, but after your N and P drop down enough so that your ATS and Macro are keeping it down, what would you need the bio pellet reactor for anymore?

For me, the goal the ATS is designed to obtain is that of 100% natural filtration. While the reef I maintain that runs an ATS (and only an ATS) has only been running it for 4 months now, there has been a visible growth explosion, which has been verified chemically by a sharp uptake in Alk and Cal to the point where I needed to get a doser, since a daily top-off addition w/alk mixed in is too much in one shot and spikes the pH.

But that's a nice problem to have...anyways, I'll be the first to admit that time will tell how well it works, but based on the experience I've seen from others, it's stand-alone and has almost no negatives except that Xenia don't survive since they need N and P.

 

[fraggleRocks]

my scrubber :

when it started

a month later. I added a second screen and upped the wattage on the bulbs.

pictures were taken right after setting up the second screen.


Maintenance is a breeze, I diddnt glue the ends of the pvc so I just pop the ends before the elbows out of place and take it to my sink. I marked the elbow and the joining pvc with a sharpie so I make sure when I put it back in the scrubber pvc doesn't go in crooked.


Now for the figures:

starting levels:

Nitrate was around 30
P04 was a whopping 2.21 YIKES!


after a month and half with the scrubber:

Nitrate: ZERO!!!
P04: 0.11 and still steadily dropping! Tested with Hanna meter

My feeding schedule - I feed 2 frozen cubes a day of assorted store bought foods, i try to mix it up a little, but the equivalent is 2 cubes per day.
I also feed a pinch of flakes once a day
and dose 2 cap-fulls of DT Phyto once a week

I have no protein skimmer anymore, I sold my Tunze months ago. I no longer run phosgaurd since adding the skimmer. The only thing I do is a 2 part dose weekly, Iodine every once in a while, and I run carbon in the sump. I don't do water changes anymore, just top-offs.


and with all this feeding the fish are fat, corals healthy and growing (mix of SPS, LPS, and softies...), and macro in the DT has been dwindling since adding the scrubber. Actually, the reason I wanted to add the scrubber to begin with was the overgrowing macro in the DT. I wanted a natural and gradual way to get rid of it without the use of chemicals, and this has worked wonderfully.

Just make sure to clean the screen weekly.



-Cindy

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

SRUSSO

I actually do still have the old algae scrubber in a 5gal bucket in the garage. Later today when i get home from class i can pull it out and upload a pic of it. I'm usuing door/window screen. The fiberglass/plastic kind. There was some mention a while back that it might not be a good idea because some contain antimold agents and what not but i couldnt find anything on the packaging that the kind i have has any of that. Which is why i started with a small test screen.

The types of algae that grew on mine were red and green, no light green. I had black on there but i scrapped it off as soon as i saw it form and rinsed the screen. My screen algae would only get maybe 1/2" thick, never got any thicker like some i have seen online which could be because of the type of screen i am using as you mentioned. About 12hrs from now i can post the pics of the old scrubber. I'm not sure if i had any pics of it fully grown, i'll have to look later when i get off work.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

That was sort of what I thought, but did not know if salt caused a problem on the cover. How far should the guard be from the screen?

you want your lights about 4-6" from the screen. Any closer (depending on the intensity of the light) you could burn the algae, any further and it will have trouble growing.

 

[srusso]

I'm sort of curious about other peoples' experiences with spray as well - after all, I'm attempting to make a table-top display ATS which will end up looking sort of like a desk fountain. It will have a standard vertical screen, although my material won't actually be that plastic canvas. The question, is how bad should I expect the spray to be?

If need be I can put some sort of a guard around both the top and bottom edge of the screen if there is any spray coming from these areas, but having to put up some sort of big panel would kind of ruin the whole display look...

I found you can control spray by insuring you create a perfect straight slit in the PVC, this allows the flow to flow evenly over the screen. If you balance the width of the slit and GPH from pump you can have almost none... Of course I didn't not get this to work on my own... :lol2: