All sorts of algae recently popping up?

[didz04]

Hi, everyone I really need some help please. If you can read through the specs I have written about my system and give out any potential advise.

There's all sorts of algae in my setup and I am looking for suggestions on whats causing it. Algae from; Diatom, green algae and hair, red algae and balloon red algae, Coralline but which I like.

Specs of my tank, 130 liter sumpless

Resun 2000 lph
SunSun 3000 lph
Wg-310 Skimmer
Heater

2 t8 18w lights - non-marine tubes though.
2 t5 24w lights - marine white 14k - marine reef 10k

Stock

1" Chromis
2" Yellow Watchman goby
4 hermits
4 1" snails (not turbos)
A dozen of I think is nassarius snails no bigger than 1cm.
Plenty of; Copepods, Britsleworms, brittle stars.

Mushrooms, Button polyps, Pulsing xenia, 1 Duncan head coral (recently growing another head) and a small frag of alveopora.

Ive setup this tank 6 weeks back and had all my live stock in a 60 lt nano for the past year in July except the chromis and watchan goby.

Potential problems that I know may be causing it.

1) Not enough flow - SunSun 23 turnover - Resun 15 turnover
The Resun is a tiny power head so I don't think its doing 2000 lph comparing it to the SunSun ph. The SunSun PH was more than enough in my 60 lt.

2) Not enough clean up crew in my tank.

3) Possibly the T8 lighting being non -marine tubes and running out causing the problems?


Please Any help and advise on what I should do and possibly buy?

Thanks

 

[HighlandReefer]

There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae and/or cyanobacterial pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of soft coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest even when phosphate and nitrate are extemely low. Vinegar and/or Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a category correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these categories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) Running a diatom filter which has been suggested by Boomer, makes a lot of sense to me. It will help remove a lot of organic material in your water column.

16) For some additional thoughts regarding switching an algae based system to a bacterial based system see this thread:
(Using a carbon source with appropriate bacterial dosing may possibly help to push your system to where you want it although this is controversial.)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781320

17) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______


If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595003

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.

 

[didz04]

Thanks just read through it all and there's a lot of factors to consider. I am not supplementing anything into the tank and I am using lfs water for my water changes. So I haven't gotten around into using any RO unit or even mixing my own salt yet.

I will purchase another SunSun power head as I have a feeling I may be getting dead spots around a few areas and I know these ph can really produce some good flow.

Does my cuc seem quite low for my tank size and amount of fish I have at the mo? Will adding 6 more hermits, snails (turbos and mexican) help? Plus possibly a fighting conch as they seem to do great jobs in clearing up from what Ive read?

Thanks

 

[2thdeekay]

All food contains nitrogen and phosphorus. Regulating N and P input, and increasing your export of nitrate and phosphate by methods described by Cliff is good advice. Keeping these nutrients very low will help control pest algae growth. Good luck!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd personally start with some GFO to export more phosphorus before the algae gets it and increase the herbivores.

 

[neoalchemist74]

If that tank is only 6 weeks old its probably still cycleing.

 

[SushiGirl]

If that tank is only 6 weeks old its probably still cycleing.

+1. All common in a 6-week-old tank.

 

[iamwrasseman]

+2 on the young tank but gfo will help you too regardless .light spectrium and age of the bulbs may be an issue also as explained by cliff .

 

[chrissu]

A simple, natural and inexpensive way to remove algae from your display tank is to built or buy yourself an Algae Scrubber for your sump area. Read the Algae Scrubber basics thread in the advanced area for more details. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420


With a scubber, you basically create an intensly lit area where there is rapid water flow. Algae with take off and grow like a weed in that sump area right where you want it. This sump algae will consume the nitrates and phosphates that your display tank is enjoying now. Your nitrates and phosphates will drop like a rock once your algae is established in the sump. In the next phase when your nitrates and phosphates are nearly depleted, your algae growth in both your display tank and your sump will begin to slow down. Then something magical happens, the algae growing in your sump area has far better lighting and water flow is it still keeps growing and absorbing what little nitrate and phosphate it can pull from your water column. The scrubber environment allows the algae in your sump area to out compete that algae in your display tank. The algae in your display tank starts to wither and receed all by itself. It's natural selection in action and it works great. It will save you alot of money and is the safest permanent solution to your problem.

There are other benefits to scrubbers too but you are asking about removing algae from your display tank and a scrubber provides a safe and effective natural way of doing that for you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, algae scrubbers and other ways of using macroalgae can certainly be useful ways to export nutrients.

and is the safest permanent solution to your problem.

Not sure what you mean by safe. There are plenty of "safe" methods.

 

[chrissu]

Yes, algae scrubbers and other ways of using macroalgae can certainly be useful ways to export nutrients.

and is the safest permanent solution to your problem.

Not sure what you mean by safe. There are plenty of "safe" methods.

I stand corrected Randy! I really should have said that an ATS, like GAC, water changes, and several other options, is one of the safer methods. It's definitely a much safer fitration solution than vodka (carbon) dosing, which is what really caught my attention in the first place.

Good algae scrubbers produce 10-50 times the volume of micro algae in a given space over macro algae growth in optimum conditions over the same time period of a week. Macro algae growing in a refugium just doesn't grow nearly as fast so it can't compete against an ATS system in it's ability to absorb nitrates and phosphates and thereby export nutrients so quickly. Having lots of macro growing in a large refrugium is a great solution and I'm a big fan of all of the more natural methods. Both methods have worked well for over 500 million years in the oceans, right?

:deadhorse1:

 

[didz04]

Thank you greatly appreciated for the responses. I'm trying a few of the ideas right now and never heard of the Algae Scrubber plan before, will like to give it a try if it works then I will definitely spread the message lol. I'll take a look at the thread.

Does cheato take in both nitrates and phosphates?

Thanks

 

[chrissu]

Thank you greatly appreciated for the responses. I'm trying a few of the ideas right now and never heard of the Algae Scrubber plan before, will like to give it a try if it works then I will definitely spread the message lol. I'll take a look at the thread.

Does cheato take in both nitrates and phosphates?

Thanks

Cheato takes in nitrates and phosphates quite well. And since it is a form of algae, it also takes in ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, inorganic phosphate, metals (like copper, aluminum and iron), and CO2 out of the water. It also removes Iodine from the water over time. Alkalinity may in some cases be slightly decreased, because of algae's slight use of bicarbonate to get CO2. It puts oxygen into the water through photosynthesis. Lastly, organic molecules are put into the water: Carbohydrates, vitamins, proteins, enzymes, lipids, and these amino acids: valine, leucine, tyrosine, phenylalanine, methionine, aspartate, glutamate, serine, alanine, and proline. (borrowed from the algae scrubber site).

Cheato likes gentle, contant water flow and good lighting so read up a bit on how to grow it the fastest and you will be happy with the results. Plan to use a sizable amount of cheato to effectively starve the algae from your display tank but cheato works well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good algae scrubbers produce 10-50 times the volume of micro algae in a given space over macro algae growth in optimum conditions over the same time period of a week.

I've seen some pretty wild claims about the efficiency of ATS systems, some of which didn't even make theoretical sense.

What evidence do you have to support that 10-50x? That seems unlikely to me.

It's definitely a much safer fitration solution than vodka (carbon) dosing, which is what really caught my attention in the first place

What do you think is unsafe about it?

FWIW, ATS systems have been around for many years. They often seem to not live up to the hype, and many folks that have tried them have stopped using them after a while. That said, there certainly are folks who have used them successfully and like them.

 

[tmz]

ATSs work to some extent as do other methods. Safety, nature, magical claims and criticizing other methods are more an expression of personal preference , anecdotal and often overstated. To be effective and ats requires light, surging flow, seeding and harvesting. Building one sounds like a fun project and if you are so inclined you could give it a try .If you do it right it should help but don't expect magic.

Personally, I'd go with water changes and gfo to start.

Organic carbon dosing is also safe and effective,ime, when done properly.

 

[Barfly]

FWIW, ATS systems have been around for many years. They often seem to not live up to the hype, and many folks that have tried them have stopped using them after a while. That said, there certainly are folks who have used them successfully and like them.

Agreed, algae scrubbers are nothing new to the hobby and there is a reason why they have not gained a more widespread use. Most of the claims made by people running an ATS are made without the use of any definitive research. Most of the systems I have seen running an ATS have micro algae in the DT, which IMO, defeats the whole purpose. Cleaning an ATS weekly, at least, is a must or you run the risk of introducing nasties (phenols, skatols and creosols), and back into the water column. Not to mention the possible chlorophyll release.

There are a couple of staunch advocates for the use of an ATS. One, has an obvious financial interest in their widespread use and the other is a long time, and well respected member of the RC community, PaulB. I copied the following from a fellow poster, Teesquare, and I completely agree with his opinion on the matter...

I have great respect for Paul - but let's qualify his aquarium: Not a "reef" tank, by the typical appearance/definitions - and more importantly how many of us just go out to the beach, and get our water for water changes??? he is using reverse flow undergravel filtering as well....And I am duly impressed with him tenacity to the "old tried and true. But - folks like Paul are rare individuals, and due our wonder and respect. Not really a parallel most can draw from...Interesting that there are always the "1%" in any endeavor, - and we need that for a number of reasons to continue learning what to do , and not do - but really - if the method is better, providing better results...WHY is it not the popular choice? if it saves time or money, or even works well enough to impress perspective clients/customer, then where is Inland Oceans today? Why do the various speakers at MACNA or other conferences not keep pushing this system as *THE* approach for a better aquarium system???? Why do we not see wholesalers, or large scale frag farming filtered this way?

 

[calbert0]

+1. All common in a 6-week-old tank.

+ 3.

Also check your magnesium level. It definitely plays a factor in all of this.

 

[bertoni]

I don't know of a relationship between magnesium and algal growth, although dosing Kent Tech-M seems to kill some forms of algae, likely due to a contaminant.

 

[StealthRider]

Non marine bulbs are around 6500 spectrum, which grows algae like crazy.
Replace the bulbs, use ro/di water, giant clean up crew and a media reactor with gfo.
This should sort the problem out very fast.
The tank is prob still cycling, or near the end so you will want to do this soon or you are missing out on the reef world.

Good luck

 

[didz04]

Non marine bulbs are around 6500 spectrum, which grows algae like crazy.
Replace the bulbs, use ro/di water, giant clean up crew and a media reactor with gfo.
This should sort the problem out very fast.
The tank is prob still cycling, or near the end so you will want to do this soon or you are missing out on the reef world.

Good luck

Thanks that could be the main problem because as I have kept a clean nano reef before no algae issues and first times its really cropping up like this and only used T5 lights for a marine setup before. My screen is now smuthered with green algae after scrubbing off a few days back. The T8 lights are on a separate switch so not a problem.

Thanks to everyone replying to my thread and interesting debate going on lol don't worry carry on I will keep watching also actually learning something from it.