America's Lost H-Bomb

I meant that its an smaller style H-bomb compared to the newer high yield ballistic missile multi-warheads we have now days that can take out cities(that i associate with being nukes. Whether I am right or not i dont know, I was told it was a similar weapon to what was dropped on Japan in ww2). Not that Tybee would be any less screwed I think(if not the blast, the after effects). I think its farther out than what rumor has it although I am sure you probably have a better idea than I do. Thats what I have been told it is anyway. Plane dropped it in the early 60s didnt it?

I wasnt aware we had tigers in our area. That's interesting, I will let him know next time I am up there, he thinks they were big hammerheads. Apparently not all that deep either, said he could still see the boat's silhouette on the surface and sharks in between him and it and if he bolted like he said he did I think he would have had other issues besides shark bumps if he was deep.

In his words he surfaced and with momentum grabbed the side of the strangers boat and pulled himself up and over flopping onto the deck. The stranger immediately turned on the engine and hit the throttle mentioning if whatever made my friend do what he did was that bad, he didnt want to be there either. Says he saw alot of dark shapes in the wake. Thinking he made himself a target by bolting which made them even more curious. Big tough ranger heheh.

You have gotten bit by tarpon and cobia? Makes for an interesting story, new extreme fishing technique?

Out of curiousity, since you are a local diver, have you run into areas with high concentrations of gorgonians with sea horses. I have heard they were out there but no one I know has actually seen them. Kinda curious as to what species they would be if they do in fact exist.
 
I meant that its an smaller style H-bomb compared to the newer high yield ballistic missile multi-warheads we have now days that can take out cities(that i associate with being nukes.

Well, you're right in that a few of today's nuclear weapons have a higher yield - although there's not many that do.

The bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (that ended WWII) were 14 kilotons and 21 kilotons, respectively. That's the destructive power of 14,000 and 21,000 tons of TNT, respectively.

...And each of those "took out a city." A nice-sized city.

The Tybee Bomb is a 1.5 megaton bomb - that's the destructive power of 1,500,000 tons of TNT.

In other words, more than 100 times the destructive power of the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.

To say that this somehow isn't a bomb "capable of destroying a city" is a gross understatement by at least 100 times.

In fact, if this went off, it would atomize, blast or incinerate an area with about a 250 mile radius... So not only would it destroy Savannah, but everything from roughly Jacksonville, FL to Atlanta, GA to Charleston, SC would pretty much be gone.

...Then the fallout would begin, which would probably drift around in our atmophere for decades, wreaking havoc whereever it went.

For what it's worth, planet Earth has never seen the detonation of a nuclear device this size before.

Physically speaking, the 4-ton bomb is one of the largest bombs ever manufactured.

...Not that I'm trying to make you feel bad for saying that it's not nuclear or that it's somehow smaller and therefore not very threatening... And I'm not trying to paint a doomsday picture about it all - I'm simply giving the facts. The bomb is very much a nuclear bomb, is very much a "WMD" as defined by the US Government, and is, by no stretch of the imagination, unimposing or small.

The TV show very much downplays the threat, at McNamera's specific request to the producer. If you do the math (Savannah's population alone is about 250,000 - there's more than 1 million living in the area I specified above, not including each of the cities I mentioned above), a detonation of the Tybee Bomb would affect vastly more than "a quarter of a million people" as it said in the TV show.

...And that's before any effects from fallout (noted in the past to double the mortality rate) and the contamination of the Floridian aquafer with both radioactive waste and salt water... Which would contaminate pretty much the entire water supply for the Southeastern US... Not to mention every spring in North Florida. :)

Not that Tybee would be any less screwed I think(if not the blast, the after effects).

Tybee - and in fact, Savannah, would be vaporized if the bomb went (or was made to go) nuclear. Tybee would be the last of our concerns.

I think its farther out than what rumor has it although I am sure you probably have a better idea than I do. Thats what I have been told it is anyway. Plane dropped it in the early 60s didnt it?

February 5th, 1958, in the wee morning hours.

The bomb is within 3 miles of the shoreline, no further north than the Savannah River inlet and no further south than Ossabaw Island, which is two sounds to the south of Tybee. The area is 3 miles wide by about 12 mile long - roughly 36 square miles.

The hottest spot for searching is directly off of the Tybee Pier by about a mile and a half.

Beachgoers have no idea.

I wasnt aware we had tigers in our area. That's interesting, I will let him know next time I am up there, he thinks they were big hammerheads.

There's hammerheads, too, but like the sand tigers, they're generally offshore. The hammerheads are rarer than the sand tigers, though.

The tiger sharks are very common, especially in deeper inland waters. Locally they can grow to about 14 feet - to see one smaller than 9 or 10 is pretty unusual.

They breed and spawn here.

The Broad River bridge, about halfway between you and I, is a virtual hot spot for them.

Caught last summer right off of Parris Island, halfway between Hilton Head and Beaufort:

tiger_shark-2.jpg


From the article: http://scallywagfishing.wordpress.com/tag/broad-river-shark/

Apparently not all that deep either, said he could still see the boat's silhouette on the surface and sharks in between him and it and if he bolted like he said he did I think he would have had other issues besides shark bumps if he was deep.

Yeah, the sand tigers generally don't exceed 6 or 7 feet. What he encountered was probably a tiger shark. Especially in our local low-vis waters, it was probably a good idea that he got out of the water. :)

In his words he surfaced and with momentum grabbed the side of the strangers boat and pulled himself up and over flopping onto the deck.

Hahahahaaa... Yeah, we call it "Pulling a Jesus." That's when the diver stands up and walks on water over to the boat. :)

The stranger immediately turned on the engine and hit the throttle mentioning if whatever made my friend do what he did was that bad, he didnt want to be there either. Says he saw alot of dark shapes in the wake. Thinking he made himself a target by bolting which made them even more curious. Big tough ranger heheh.

Lol... He shoulda cut up some bait, chummed and taken photos. :) Sharks are pretty cool, and not the mindless killers that everyone makes them out to be.

Too many JAWS movies. :)

You have gotten bit by tarpon and cobia? Makes for an interesting story, new extreme fishing technique?

Hahhahahahaaha... Yeah, and they freakin' hurt. :) You know, I wouldn't put anything past our local rednecks. :)

Out of curiousity, since you are a local diver, have you run into areas with high concentrations of gorgonians with sea horses. I have heard they were out there but no one I know has actually seen them. Kinda curious as to what species they would be if they do in fact exist.

Yeah, the 'Ross is covered with them. That said, you've got to look for them - even though they're numerous, they're quite well camoflaged.

I honestly have no idea how to identify different species of sea horses, so I couldn't begin to tell you what kind they are. Probably the same kind as you'd find in the Gulf Stream offshore Florida, since that's where we get our tropicals from...
 
This is way cool. I spent a lot of time in Tybee when I was stationed there. Cool little beach town. I have see those sharks more than once sitting out on my board....

I had NO idea there was an H bomb...*** post a sign or somethin. ;)
 
Shhhh cant post a sign, it would let the terrorists know its there for the taking. Everyone knows they dont watch the Discovery Channel so the secret is still safe. :P
 
This is way cool. I spent a lot of time in Tybee when I was stationed there. Cool little beach town. I have see those sharks more than once sitting out on my board....

I had NO idea there was an H bomb...*** post a sign or somethin. ;)

Well, that SOUNDS like a great idea, but...

Nobody there really wants the story to be told.

It has the potential to ruin local real estate values.

...And as entertaining as that thought it, it's also true - so people there have a tendency to poo-poo the whole thing.

It's also difficult to believe that the US Government could be so irresponsible as to choose to leave something like that there. Well, maybe for some people. :)

Lastly, the US Government is not happy about the implications of such a lost nuke - aside from terrorist risk, it simply doesn't make anyone look good - so they're all about sweeping the whole thing under the rug and letting it go away. They'd much rather tell people, "It's nothing but a big paperweight," (an actual quote from a government official interviewed for the show) and that there's no risk associated with it, and that it shouldn't be moved or touched. If the whole shindig simply goes away, they'd be happy about it.

...The fact is, it's not going to go away. Not until it's found will we be able to accurately assess the risk associated with it. It may be best left alone, that's true... It also may be best removed, sealed or secured. Nobody knows until it's located.

Meanwhile, amazing things are happening today - our group has just been contacted by a government contractor who was out there doing a side scan survey (unrelated to the Bomb) and apparently there's been a suspiciouis anomaly that's been located.

Frankly, we find "suspicious anomalies" all the time - one out of ten anomalies are something significant, usually a shipwreck or something. Obviously, we've never found the Bomb, but a contractor accustomed to looking at side scans who labels something "suspicious" is probably someone to be believed.

We all meet in Savannah tomorrow at noon. I'll be comparing this new anomaly with those that we've already located and examining the side scan images. If the target is a new one, we'll mount a dive and give you a full report. Again. :)
 
Shhhh cant post a sign, it would let the terrorists know its there for the taking. Everyone knows they dont watch the Discovery Channel so the secret is still safe. :P

A non-issue at the moment if nobody's been able to locate it. :) After it's located, the "rules" all change.
 
Lastly, the US Government is not happy about the implications of such a lost nuke - aside from terrorist risk, it simply doesn't make anyone look good - so they're all about sweeping the whole thing under the rug and letting it go away. They'd much rather tell people, "It's nothing but a big paperweight," (an actual quote from a government official interviewed for the show) and that there's no risk associated with it, and that it shouldn't be moved or touched. If the whole shindig simply goes away, they'd be happy about it.
Technically wouldn't the salt water slowly eat away at the bomb and start leaking toxic fluids or radiation in the water?
just curious. (im not exactly sure what the Gov puts in its bombs. (it could be 20 lbs of poo and 1 lb of actual explosive. hahaha))
 
Technically wouldn't the salt water slowly eat away at the bomb and start leaking toxic fluids or radiation in the water?
just curious. (im not exactly sure what the Gov puts in its bombs. (it could be 20 lbs of poo and 1 lb of actual explosive. hahaha))

Yeah, that's a great point, and addressed in the show.

For what it's worth, onboard is about 1200 lbs. of weapons-grade uranium - a huge score for a terrorist - which is classified more for it's heavy metal toxicity than it's actual radiation value. Also aboard is about 400 lbs. of conventional TNT-type explosives that is known to be LESS stable as it gets wet, especially in the presence of salt water. Lastly, (and it's argued that this part isn't present, but we know that it is), there is a grapefruit-sized ball of plutonium, which is highly radioactive beneath a layer of corrosion (whether it's been exposed to seawater or not) that is NOT radioactive to a dangerous level. If the surface is scratched, however, the plutonium could do some serious damage to someone in a localized vicinity.

...But I digress. :) At least you know, now, what the bomb is made of. :)

The hull of the bomb is made of aircraft-grade aluminum - nobody's really sure how thick or exactly what grade of aluminum, so it's pretty tough to estimate a time when the inner contents of the bomb were actually exposed to seawater, or even if they are at all.

For example, the bomb could have broken up on impact - meaning that immediately, there was inner exposure to seawater.

The bomb could have also stayed relatively intact and buried itself tens of feet beneath the seabed, in an anoxic environment where corrosion generally won't occur.

Interestingly, the Floridian Aquafer (where our drinking water comes from) is a scant 40 feet below the seabed floor - so it's also possible that the Bomb is actually exposed to freshwater instead of salt, depending on where it ended up.

The bottom line is that for decades, both the water and sewer authorities and local scientists studying the ocean have been looking for oddball elements in the water - either plutonium or uranium, or one of their daughter elements (a sure sign that the bomb is leaking). To date, nobody has ever found any trace elements that foretell of a leaking bomb.

...Which is to say that it's very likely that, at the moment, the Bomb is not leaking.

...Which is not to say that it couldn't finally corrode through tomorrow and begin leaking.

Once it leaks, it should become much easier to find. :) Of course, by then, a good bit of damage will have been done.

It's tough to tell exactly which risk to be most concerned about - terrorism, nuclear explosion, conventional explosion ("dirty bomb"), radiation, heavy metal contamination, or any combination thereof either into the ecosystem (the area is heavily fished and shrimped) or into the aquafer.

...Which is why the thing needs to be found and assessed. I'm confident that once it is, the Government will want it retrieved. I know a lot of locals that would like to see it gone. :)
 
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The hull of the bomb is made of aircraft-grade aluminum - nobody's really sure how thick or exactly what grade of aluminum,
so, during war, no one plans out bombs, they just apear and get used haha

i think the gov knows and it must no be good if they wont say.
 
Yeah, probably... But there's so many variables that nobody really knows anything until it's found. That is. all theories are applicable until we know for sure which ones aren't.

...And none of them are good.

We need to find the Bomb. :)
 
Is it possible its whats keeping Tybee a nice low key island community instead of turning into an upscale(in a bad way) tourist attraction like Myrtle Beach or Daytona?


Ever see Lion fish btw?
 
Also aboard is about 400 lbs. of conventional TNT-type explosives that is known to be LESS stable as it gets wet, especially in the presence of salt water.


This is not a true tatement. The military grade TNT is compressed into a hard form. IF the salt water were to eat away at the casing of the bomb itself and gain access to the TNT it would slowly erode as well. Also The TNT will only remain sensitive for a certain period of time before it becomes unusable. ALSO the tnt will need to be set off with a blasting cap or similar donor explosive with an RE factor greater than 1.00. Blasting caps and DET cord used in military applications both have an RE factor of 1.66 as they are made with PETN. C4 has an RE factor of 1.34 and TNT is the base factoring at 1.

Now in order for the TNT to be detonated it would not only need the donor explosion but also still be packed in a state to fully accept the heat and pressure in order to start the explosion sequence.

I would say it is safe to assume the TNT has withered away by now.

(I would also say I am qualified to make these statements ;)

NOW back to the PROGRAM....gotta hit up the hang fire while you're in Savannah bro. Great locals bar. ANd good luck on the dive.

Not trying to bash on anyone's parade here, so please don't be insulted or anything.
 
Not insulted at all. :)

I have only been told that the explosives aboard were "conventional TNT-type explosives." I do know that they were set off electrically - and I know that there's about 400 lbs of them in there.

I have been warned by numerous nuclear experts about the increasing instability of the conventional explosives. It's a genuine concern of mine, and if you know something different, by all means, speak up.

We do not know if the conventional explosives are wet or dry, in saltwater or fresh. They could also be buried (in an anoxic environment).

I do not know if the explosives are in a powder form or a plastic form - but I doubt that they're the same explosives that the military uses in other applications (probably very specialized, like the rest of the bomb).

Care to do a little research for us? It'd be nice to not have to worry about that part of the Bomb. :)
 
Not insulted at all. :)

I have only been told that the explosives aboard were "conventional TNT-type explosives." I do know that they were set off electrically - and I know that there's about 400 lbs of them in there.

I have been warned by numerous nuclear experts about the increasing instability of the conventional explosives. It's a genuine concern of mine, and if you know something different, by all means, speak up.

We do not know if the conventional explosives are wet or dry, in saltwater or fresh. They could also be buried (in an anoxic environment).

I do not know if the explosives are in a powder form or a plastic form - but I doubt that they're the same explosives that the military uses in other applications (probably very specialized, like the rest of the bomb).

Care to do a little research for us? It'd be nice to not have to worry about that part of the Bomb. :)

Well let me start by saying I am a Special Forces Demolitions engineer (Green Beret.)

With my qualifications out of the way I'll explain the best I can.

The TNT is electrically detonated via the equivalent of modern M7 electric blasting cap. Basically 2 wires running from the back of a small cap filled with PETN. The TNT itself is compressed to a hard rock like substance. The compression sensitizes the chemical composition to make it "cap" sensitive. Normal TNT requires a booster/donor charge in order to reach high order. Other wise you would have what is known as a low order discharge.

A low order is basically the blasting cap would blow up and just blow a chunk off of the TNT. When compressed with thousands of pounds of force however the TNT "activates" and becomes slightly less stable.

Now when I say stable I don't mean like sneeze and boom. I mean that a smaller explosion can provide the necessary force to cause the chemical reaction to complete. You can still take a block of TNT and boot it across the field. and throw it into a wall.

Now when making under water charges you still have to seal them or else they will become pretty close to inert within days at the most a week.

Now if TNT is exposed to water for prolonged periods of time what you could run into is some of the components being separated by the pressure of the water and water filling the pores within the block forcing particles out....

However with the constant currents and the amount of time that it has sat down there I would bet the majority has eroded away anyway. More important the firing device would be inert as a paper weight.

I personally would be more concerned with the core leaking releasing radiation. Which if I'm not mistaken wouldn't that raise the ambient temperature around the area of the bomb?
 
Well let me start by saying I am a Special Forces Demolitions engineer (Green Beret.)

Sorry, I'm unclear as to how that qualifies you. I don't mean to sound rude about it, but we have several Marine Corps officers on our team that are EOD - some of them nuclear specialists.

We know that the conventional explosives have been described by the manufacturer (he's on our team, too) as "conventional TNT-type explosives," but we don't know whether or not the explosives are actually Trinitrotoluene (TNT). They could be made of many different chemicals - or any combination thereof - so knowing the characteristics of TNT might not completely describe the state of the warhead today.

Now when making under water charges you still have to seal them or else they will become pretty close to inert within days at the most a week.

Now if TNT is exposed to water for prolonged periods of time what you could run into is some of the components being separated by the pressure of the water and water filling the pores within the block forcing particles out....

We do not know whether or not the Bomb's integrity has been compromised - in other words, we don't know if the conventional explosives got wet or not. It's entirely possible that they are open to the sea, and it's entirely possible that they are underground, still sealed in the hull of the bomb, in a totally anoxic environment (no corrosion).

What we do know is that when the Bomb hit the water, there was no explosion, either of the conventional or nuclear kind. The bomb could be in 1ft of water, and it could be in 35 feet of water - or even underground underwater. :)

However with the constant currents and the amount of time that it has sat down there I would bet the majority has eroded away anyway. More important the firing device would be inert as a paper weight.

What's with you government types and the "paperweight" theory? :) This is not a paperweight, and never has been. What it is is a massive nuclear weapon, in a questionable state of repair. We have no idea what is going on with it. And while it's entirely possible that yes, the conventional explosives have somehow been swept away and decayed into the ocean, it's also entirely possible that they're as good as the day that the Bomb was dropped.

It is, however, under no circumstances, a "paperweight." If you need a four-ton, 12-foot long, nuclear, "Weapons of Mass Destruction" paperweight, then it's time to go paperless. :)

I personally would be more concerned with the core leaking releasing radiation. Which if I'm not mistaken wouldn't that raise the ambient temperature around the area of the bomb?

Nope. Depending on the type of enriched Uranium used in the Bomb, it could have a half-life of anywhere between 25,000 and 4.2 million years - in other words, when left to decay, the Uranium would be half as potent as it was the day it was dropped anywhere from 25,000 years to 4.2 million years from now.

In effect, the 50 years it's been down there is a blink of an eye. For all intents and purposes, it can be safely said that the Uranium has not decayed at all - maybe a fraction of a percent.

...And that's independent of whether or not it's been exposed to seawater.

Unlike fuel rods found in nuclear power plants, this type of Uranium does not create significant heat as it decays.

Frankly, I wish it did... If it did, we could find it by it's heat signature. :)
 
I just learned a few things
1) A 4000 pound thermo-nuclear bomb should not be used as a paperweight.

2) Based upon the 1/2 life of Enriched Uranium, the 52 years since it was lost equates to the bomb being nearly every bit as powerful as if it was dropped only 12 seconds ago.

3) If it is in the underground water supply and goes off, Florida will be host to numerous hot springs.
 
1)

3) If it is in the underground water supply and goes off, Florida will be host to numerous hot springs.

Hahahahahahaaaa!!! :)

I know you're kidding, but just to clarify: Post-detonation, the springs would be described as "hot," but only radioactively... They wouldn't change their actual temperature. Still 72*. :) They would be "hot" radioactively, though... Very poisonous.

1) A 4000 pound thermo-nuclear bomb should not be used as a paperweight.

Hahahahhaaaaa!!! Actually the bomb is nearly four tons. That's about 8,000 pounds (7,600 to be exact), not 4,000. At about twelve feet long and about 3 feet wide, it's quite the large device.

...Which is really, really tiny when you're looking for it in 36 square miles... Especially when it's presumably standing on it's nose, buried in the muck, and only has an image signature of a manhole cover. :)

Our biggest problem hasn't been finding the bomb - it's been ruling out the false positives. There's so much junk out there from the past 500 years' of European trade that EVERYTHING looks like it could be it. :)
 
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