And we have Ocellaris Babies!!

[alaska clowns]

I think they are in a state of eternal larvae-hood I spend so much time watching them that it's hard to tell if they're growing.
Despite all my blunders, I still have around 20.
Some are beginning to curve their tails like fish! I figure these guys must be a couple days behind schedule.
I'm stuck on .25 ammonia, but haven't had any nitrite.
Unfortunately, my rots crashed and burned last night- the first time since I've started culturing them several months ago. I had two cultures, or, one and sort of one, and they both crashed at the same time. I'm trying to restart with the "sludge" but I'm not sure it's working. Tonight I may try to bring a few over from the nursery tank and just inoculate a whole phyto bottle. I think the crash came from putting in a little (or a little too much) roti-rich from FAF that I had mixed up a while ago. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb.
I still have rots in the nursery tank, and I'm trying to feed Otohime more often to make up for any lack of rotifer nutrition, but I suppose I won't know for a few days if that's successful. I'm feeling kind of attached to those little larva, so if (or when) they perish, it'll be a bummer day.
You've sold me on the idea of buying the instant algae, even though I was kind of choking on having to spend another hundred dollars or so to get it. But if I'm going to put in the time and energy...
Duncaholic, you recommend Rotigrow plus - do you add that to the larval tank water, or do you use something else to tint the water green?

 

[reefstew]

Gresham would be the best person to answer this question. But I use RG + for the rotifers & Roto- Green for the larvae tank.

 

[reefstew]

I was using RG + but the new product is out now called RG Complete & that is what I am using.

 

[duncaholic]

I do use Rg+ in the larvae tank, but my tanks are 30g and heavily aerated. IDK if you will get a little oil slick from putting it in your 5g, but if you did, it might be a bit more difficult to control in such a confined space. All in all, I've been happy with everything I've ordered from reeds, and they are my go to for any feeding supplies. I am a bit unconventional in the way I raise my clowns, and I order in bulk, so I haven't tried their new RG complete, but I just don't think you can go wrong with anything from them. Depending on what your end goal is, as in how many clutches you think you are going to raise you might want to consider buying a kilo of oto a and one of C1. These will last for a very long time. These are the only two sizes I use. Once they reach about 1.25" I sswitch them to new life spectrum 1mm pellets, and that's all they eat from then on.

Also, at 9 days, you shouldn't need rots at all. They should be ready for oto a exclusively. I think you're at 9 days anyway. Try hard to rescue your rots. If you can pull 1000 or so from your larvae tank, you should be able to re-start them. Just do it in a small container at first until you canb get your density up. you don't want a lot of phyto that's not being consumed floating around, as it cna cause pollution in your rot culture as it dies of and decays. Also, you can keep a "starter pack" that is a smallish culture of +/- 20000 rots in your fridge in a plastic bottle with the top cracked open reliably for five days. just make sure you float them and bring the temperature up slowly when you use your reserve rots. Also lable them when you put them in so you can be sure your putting new one's in reserve on schedule. rots can be fickle, and you really don't want to have to buy them over and over.

Did you order some sponge filters yet? you will probably want them for your next clutch. They actually are better than LR IMO for larvae tanks. You can put them in as early a day 7, and since you can run them in the sump of your display to prep them, you should always have a great colony of bacteria when you need it. Make sure you are actually running them in your sump and not justing letting them sit in there...much more effective.

As afr as meta, look for the headstripe to appear. very faint at first, but it will be the easiest thing to identify that your well into meta. It actually happens very quickly. I'd say within the first three weeks. Otherwise, if your like me, You will be endlessly staring at them to try and distinguish the faint ornage coloration. I'm R/G colorbling though, and somehow that makes it more difficult.

I'm afraid that my suggestion to only use overhead light may have had something to do with your larvae "floating" at the surface, but even still, I think the one's that are left will turn out to be your strongest and healthiest babies. I do understand the strength of the emotional attachment, but I also know how terrible it feels when you raise a clutch for 5-7 months only to realize that the things done pre-meta can have long lasting consequences. It's heartbreaking for me to look at a tank with 300 1.25" clowns in it, and see that they are all uner-developed. Poor striping and stunted growth.

Anyway, best of luck, and anytime I can help, don't be shy about asking questions.

Also any of the masters on the site want to weigh in?? I'm sure some of my 411 is outdated or just plain misguided. TIA

 

[gmate]

You are doing an amazing job at raising these babies, I wish you the best of luck! I know the personal satisfaction is far outweighing any monetary gain you may get from breeding these bad boys

My only comment is that 5g bowfront seems very small for these guys, I've heard 10 or 15g tanks being optimum for hatcheries.

 

[alaska clowns]

I do have a question about my sponge filter situation. I started running one in my sump about 2 months ago in anticipation of a successful clutch. A few weeks ago I discovered that the sponge had copepods and amphipods crawling all over it, so I thought, why should I buy those creatures when I can culture them? I stuck it in a 1 gallon tank and have been culturing them with the sponge filter. Last night I tested the culture water, and it has .5 ammonia and less than .25 nitrite. Would it hurt to use this filter in the clown larvae tank?

Duncaholic, thank you for more helpful advice! I have tried to rescue the rotifers 3 different ways, so I'll know in a couple of days if one takes. Thanks for the great idea for backup rots in the fridge.

gmate, thanks for the kind words! I'm not holding my breath about the monetary gain, though it would be nice to break even with what I've put into it (monetarily speaking) Definitely there's personal satisfaction, and it's a great learning opportunity for my kiddos. Next time I'm going to use a spare 10 gallon tank, I definitely felt cramped with the 5 gallon, and I didn't have many more than 50 or 60 larvae at any one time!

My friend's clowns laid again, but they hadn't put the tile in..... last night was going to be hatch night and they hatched before the lights went out! That's ok because I didn't have food to sustain babies... I asked them to please put the tile in That takes a lot less time for me than fishing :fish1: even though my friends really like the fishing part

I can't wait for MY OWN clown to lay some eggs!! I keep thinking she might be getting fat......

 

[alaska clowns]

I don't know why I should have been startled by it since I was waiting for it, but we have a headstripe!! Just one, I can faintly see another or two coming!! Headstripe baby is hanging real close to the side of the tank, I hope that's not a bad sign. He looks like a fish!!

BTW... does anyone have any suggestions as to whether or not I can use the sponge filter from my copepod/amphipod culture that has not so great water quality? Right now I've still got a piece of LR in the nursery tank, and I'm putting in amquel. PH of 7.4, no nitrite, 1ppm ammonia (before adding amquel this morning).
I'm a little afraid to make any major changes....just kind of holding my breath...

 

[hvacman250]

I sat here and debated as to whether I should even post this (to avoid confusing you) but I think its neat how much of a difference there can be in this venture.

As a warning, I am not saying my way is right and others are wrong. From reading your thread, my success has been MUCH easier:

At 80-81*, my Occy eggs hatch on day 8. I pull eggs on the afternoon of day 8. The 5 .5 gallon tank is filled 3/4 full with parent water. A 50W heater is added and set to 82. An aerator w/ stone is set to bubble the eggs. I do not black out the sides of my tank. A 13W CFL bulb lights the top of the tank. After setting the tank up, I add rots and tint the water green.

The morning after hatch, I turn the air down to 2-3 bubbles per second. I keep the water tinted green for the first 5 days, adding rots if needed. Day 5 I introduce Oto A and BBS(this is more as a treat than needed ) From this point on, OTO only. I change a gallon of water every 2-3 days. I siphon the bottom with 1/4" rigid tube and drip new water in at a fast drip (1 gallon per hour, maybe??) I dont check ammonia, nitrite, or anything else. As the babies get past the rot stage, I fill the tank to full and turn the bubbles up more. There has even been times where I siphoned a gallon out and just slowly poured a gallon in. The water I use is seasoned 1.020 water, not from parent tank.

I feed 5-6 times daily. When they hit 30 days old, they go into a grow-out tank.

So as you can see, I do things WAY differently than others and have great success. I generally lose very few from hatch to meta. I would urge you that there is no clownfish breeding bible to go by. Feel free to experiment and see what works for you.

Disclaimer: you have been given very good advice by reefstew and duncaholic. I am just sharing my view to show how hardy babies can be amd that there is no right way to do one thing.

Good luck with your breeding. They are fun to watch grow. As an experiiment, I took 4 ONE month old fry to the LFS and put them in one of their displays. Its one of the Deep Blue all in one cubes, maybe 20 gallon. They are the only fish on the low flow system, and all 4 immediately dove into a huge torch colony. They have been there a coupel weeks and are doing great. That tank is a hit at the store.

 

[alaska clowns]

hvacman, thanks for sharing your experiences! I do find it fascinating that each person has to find the way that works for them... I guess that's what makes it more (or at least as much) art than science. I'm wondering if clown fry are only as delicate as a person treats them
If that's the case, I'm rearing a rather delicate bunch of babies
I guess that's the mother in me.
Wow, hvacman, 1 month old babies in a host torch coral - that must be quite a sight!

I very much appreciate all the help I have received!

 

[alaska clowns]

We have some stripes This will be day 14.
Crazy how different they look when they get a stripe!

 

[duncaholic]

congrats on meta!!!

As far as your sponge filter, I think your fine to use it. Might want to wash it out in some parent tank water, but other than that it should be good.

As far as HVAC's post. I couldn't agree more. I know how difficult/exciting it is when you first start raising fry, but it is definatley a fact that breeders can have success with a wide variety of different methods. It was hard for me at first to experiment with my fry, because I was soooo attached to them, and afraid of killing them, but in a relatively short period of time, I realized that I would have more fry from any one single pair, than I could ever raise. Took me maybe 7-8 attempts before I got my system dialed in, and although it is very different than HVAC's, I rarely loose more than 5% pre-meta.

One other note. I have found that my different species of breeders like slightly different conditions. I have 2 pairs of percs that I rear fairly regularly, and even within this same species, I have an issue with one of the pairs fry if the sg gets over 1.024, while the fry from the other pair can cope no problem. Since you're only raising fry from one pair, you will get it dialed in quickly, and run out of room fast.

Best of luck!!!

 

[duncaholic]

oh yeah and btw, I still have a pair from the very first hatch I got past meta. I'm giving them(and a new 29g setup) to my nephews for Christmas. For me that's very rewarding, and an indication of how attached I was, and still am,to that first brood.

 

[larrypoe]

this is the species who made me take the dive into SW........IDK a thing about it, but i am watching VERY closely and hoping for at least a little of this info to sink into that grey matter between my ears...ehhh sometimes it works and sometimes not so much ......

clownfish are such cool little critters ........and I love a fish who settles down and reproduces without a ton of trouble in captivity...

 

[alaska clowns]

duncaholic, thanks for sharing! It would be hard to think of a better Christmas present than that !!

larrypoe, I did a ton of reading before I ever had any clownfish larvae to work with. I think reading is essential, but it seems like for me, the info didn't really start to sink in until I was actually doing the work, if that makes sense. I think the hands-on part has helped me start understanding in a way that reading by itself couldn't do. With me however, that has meant many failed attempts - er, learning curves and I'm sure there's going to be more learning curves, but it sure is fun when things are going well

I love disposition of my ocellaris pair - definitely makes them my all-time favorite fish.

 

[larrypoe]

alaska..totaly agree with ya, and yes it makes total sense to me lol...im sort of a hands on guy myself


while new to SW, i have had FW for 30yrs...and bred several types of fish....some on a big scale, some on a nano scale....egg layers, live breeders, some hard some easy.

it was the research on the clowns, ocellaris in perticular, that made me want to try SW and breeding them. I like the sexless birth and the ability to change from male to female.

20yrs ago, the first and only SW tank i ever had, I kept a pair of seahorses...mostly because of the male pouch and him taking care of the babys.

I have had at least 1 tank of guppys for 32yrs, usualy to raise feeders out of, and though i have heard and read of the females changing to males with them in female only tanks..........i have never personaly had it happen.....though I have had females keep having babys for 6months after being taken away from any males (they can store semen and use it whenever they want)

the "mouth breeding" cichlids are a pretty cool fish too. and bubble nest builders are a fav of mine.

anyway its those cool little habits I find interesting in aquarium fish.....and its usualy that type I like to work with.

 

[alaska clowns]

larrypoe, that's quite a resume of fish breeding!! I'm sure you'll have no trouble with ocellaris - and it'll be enjoyable. Good luck!!
I bred gerbils and sold their babies when I was a kid. But I'm new to fish breeding

After reading Wittenrich's book, I want to set up some brood tanks.
More fish means more fun

 

[larrypoe]

I enjoy lots of hobbys....fish keeping only one of them...I also have quite a background in genetics. In fact most of my hobbys are genetic studys in disguise lol.

I raised and trained coonhounds for 25yrs, and have worked with/trained 3 world champion hunters, and several dozen world hunt finalists. 2 different articles written about me and my dogs.....and the last litter of pups I raised has a 3 time UKC World Show Ch of breed/ 2010 AKC World Show Ch to its credit.....she is also only 3 so she has won the first title every year since she was born

my wife raised guinea pigs and rabbits for show and for a major pet store supplier for years....though she is down to just a handfull of the very best atm. its amazing how much progress one can make with a study animal who you can congest 30-40 generations in a matter of years.

 

[alaska clowns]

Hmmmmmm..... I think I have a bacterial bloom....? the water is a little cloudy. In the last 48 hours I've doubled the water volume, and I've been siphoning out about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon every 12 hours as I vacuum the bottom of the tank, and replacing with NSW at one drip per second. Put in the sponge filter about 48 hours ago. Is there anything else I can do?

 

[Papadoum]

A good UV unit will nuke a bacterial bloom dead in its track
I use a cheap coralife turbo-twist 6x and its amazing the clarity change that happen when i fire it up. (i move it between 2 systems)

 

[billsreef]

A large water change (50% or larger) is usually the best thing for cloudy water in larval rearing tanks. It gets to the root of the problem by dropping the nutrient load of the water that is fueling the bacteria bloom