Another "Get off my lawn" moment from the washed-up: ULNS??

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NeilFox said:
Thanks for clarifying my post Mammoth. That is the point I was trying to make. I don't think I said anywhere that I don't like Zeo tanks as was suggested earlier.

I always loved the look of Scarab's reef. There are some pics of his reef in the Worlds Best Aquariums thread. I honestly think your pretty much there Mammoth. Funny, it seems like we are never 100% happy with our own stuff.
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MammothReefer said:
I think the point NeilFox was trying to make is there is a specific type of Reefer whom is attracted to the Zeo program, and they tend to trend along a similar path. A stereo type per-say? It really depends on how you were introduced to that method. If you see an tank that is and happens to use Zeo tanks we then try to emulate the results which is why you see a lot of Zeo tanks using similar equipment and having a similar look and feel between tanks, of course there are always exceptions, and it's not just limited to Zeo.

Can any of you say you didn't try to scape a tank with a canyon after seeing Steve Weast setup for the first time?

For me, my inspiration has always been Scarab's 100g setup. He was just using GFO/Carbon having amazing success and a huge fish list.. Looking at it again after all these years I still have a ways to go, not to mention he was pulling this off '05. It's just how the hobby/trends go.


What was this topic about again? :confused:
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yea I agree :) alot of it also has to do with "well that worked for him, so Ill do the same" I have done that myself as well ...

sorry if I misunderstood Neil. :)
 
Yes the problem with bio pellets is they do a good job at reducing no3 but do very little at removing po4. So a lot of times people that run bio pellets have really low levels of no3 but the po4 creeps up. I have ran bio pellets before and had the same issue.
 
That then of course brings up the question of what in the Zeo method is consuming or binding the po4?
 
sirreal63 said:
That then of course brings up the question of what in the Zeo method is consuming or binding the po4?
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simply put, we dont know :)

could be the Aluminum based Zeoliths ? could be the sponges ? the bacteria and the specific carbon source ? each bacteria has its own NPC contents, and each carbon source feeds different bacteria, so could be that, but again, we dont know.

my bet would be on zeoliths, as every couple of months, po4 raises [not detectable] but I can notice it raising through color of my SPS, and when the zeoliths are exchanged, the po4 drops again and corals shine. Also, if flow through reactor is increased too high, po4 drops so fast that it strips the base of corals ... so gotta be something happening in there :)

but yea, I dont know if anyone actually knows :) even the biologists I have spoken to just have guesses I mentioned above.
 
Interesting, I go through about a pound of HC GFO a year, or about $30 a year. Zeoliths get changed out how often and at what cost?
 
sirreal63 said:
Interesting, I go through about a pound of HC GFO a year, or about $30 a year. Zeoliths get changed out how often and at what cost?
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I am sure you can work out the cost difference yourself. its great that you can get away with only $30 bucks worth of GFO, but my reply wasnt to convince you to change your method, nor was it to compare GFO with Zeolith .... they do different things. I thought I was just clarifying the question you had with info, didnt know I was walking into a trap LOL.

zeovit is expensive, I think we have already gone over it ? its not for everyone, and po4 reduction is not the only thing Zeolith and zeovit system does, we spent 6 pages here and another 13 pages in other thread talking about it :)
 
My limited understanding is that Zeolites are super adsorbants with positively charged ions. They have the ability to adsorb ammonia. I think they are somewhat unique in this respect due to the low molecular weight of ammonia. I know about them mostly because a company I contracted with out of Holland was experimenting with them for hyperbaric rescue craft. An evacuation system that enables Saturation Divers to be deployed in a seperate chamber if surface decompression was days away. One of the DNV requirements was that the divers need to be able to survive at least 72 hours without outside intervention. The THELMA labratory out of Norway performed numerous experiments with Zeolight, Sofnocat and HP Sodasorb. Zeolight was able to bind free ammonia. I believe in the aquarium, this would bind free ammonia prior to it having a chance to break down. It's use in the aquarium seems fairly recent but the technology has been around for at least 200 years.

If I am wrong or anyone else want's to add feel free. We did the tests back in 2007 so there may be alot more going on now. Just thought I would throw my $0.02 out there. Great thread. The Galleon does have a knack for getting a discussion going lol...
 
NeilFox said:
My limited understanding is that Zeolites are super adsorbants with positively charged ions. They have the ability to adsorb ammonia. I think they are somewhat unique in this respect due to the low molecular weight of ammonia. I know about them mostly because a company I contracted with out of Holland was experimenting with them for hyperbaric rescue craft. An evacuation system that enables Saturation Divers to be deployed in a seperate chamber if surface decompression was days away. One of the DNV requirements was that the divers need to be able to survive at least 72 hours without outside intervention. The THELMA labratory out of Norway performed numerous experiments with Zeolight, Sofnocat and HP Sodasorb. Zeolight was able to bind free ammonia. I believe in the aquarium, this would bind free ammonia prior to it having a chance to break down. It's use in the aquarium seems fairly recent but the technology has been around for at least 200 years.

If I am wrong or anyone else want's to add feel free. We did the tests back in 2007 so there may be alot more going on now. Just thought I would throw my $0.02 out there. Great thread. The Galleon does have a knack for getting a discussion going lol...
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you are completely correct about it. they are great absorbants, even used in air freshener, and alot of new aspects. even medical, for making oxygen gas.

in freshwater, the ammonia removers are just that, zeoliths.

in salt water though, due to high concentration of metals, this occurs less and less [according to Randy and boomer, also Gary white].

it makes sense though, that the surface of zeoliths would at least be in higher concentration of ammonia, which would make it more suitable for bacteria to colonize ...
I dont have the link right now, but there were test done to see how much ammonia Zeoliths remove in sea water, the result was very very low. ill try to dig it up.
 
It was no trap, just poorly worded on my part, busy with staining cabinets and should have taken more time. I apologize for that. I think I will do better listening to you and Karsseboom and possibly Cuna than the Zeo forums. In no way will I knock the method intentionally. Aspects of it are somewhat fascinating because they seem to be a variation of carbon dosing taken to a different level.

The question was in part because we know it is expensive and it seems that a few components of the method do the bulk of the work. I have been trying to read the other thread and so far found it informative, aside from the Buggers in the thread. If it is true that the core components do the bulk then it isn't really that much different than carbon dosing and GFO with with the appropriate level of food import and waste export. (which it seems eludes most reefers) I am sure I am missing something but in a large sense the methods seem very much alike.
 
sirreal63 said:
If it is true that the core components do the bulk then it isn't really that much different than carbon dosing and GFO with with the appropriate level of food import and waste export. (which it seems eludes most reefers) I am sure I am missing something but in a large sense the methods seem very much alike.
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I would agree with that statement.

the basic of zeovit system, would yield almost the same results as carbon dosing + GFO.

then other additives used as food and color enhancers ,,, which arent part of basics of zeovit.

per year, in my 200G system I use about 8-9 bags of zeolith, which is about 170 bucks.
 
From reading the other thread, specifically the good zeo and bad zeo pics, it seems a large percentage of zeo users are getting the bad zeo effect of pale corals, perhaps by choice because they want that but it also shows that (to me) that zeo does not automatically mean pale corals.
 
sirreal63 said:
From reading the other thread, specifically the good zeo and bad zeo pics, it seems a large percentage of zeo users are getting the bad zeo effect of pale corals, perhaps by choice because they want that but it also shows that (to me) that zeo does not automatically mean pale corals.
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I would agree Jack. There are some astounding tanks there. However; seeing that Zeovit is a commercial enterprise with very good marketing skills, it seems to me that many people are atracted to this method that aren't really cut out for it. At this stage in the game my tank doesn't look like much 5 mo. I have been taking it slowly. I started my first reef in 1988 but took a break for awhile. I still keep an open mind and may consider this (Zeo) or some components in the future.

That being said, if you look around this site there are plenty of people who want an instant reef. I imagine most of the top notch reefers stay on top of the technology and know whats available. They will use what's available. I am not for or against it. I have also learned alot from this thread and that's what it's all about.:hmm5:
 
NeilFox said:
That being said, if you look around this site there are plenty of people who want an instant reef. I imagine most of the top notch reefers stay on top of the technology and know whats available. They will use what's available. I am not for or against it. I have also learned alot from this thread and that's what it's all about.:hmm5:
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Completely agreed. I will never consider myself a top notch reefer, I have been told for about 8 years that what I do is suicide for a reef, yet it has never failed me. I will always suggest to a new reefer to do what is considered the norm, even if what I do is not. The more different methods are discussed and ideas exchanged, the better it is for everyone.
 
yea I have to agree to that too ... we have alot of new reefers trying zeovit and other carbon dosing, before even getting used to testing for KH, or getting to know SPS corals ... I have said on the other thread too ... you NEED to have a successful SPS reef tank with berlin method, before trying zeovit or any carbon dosing. you need to know what tissue recession looks like. what healthy and unhealthy corals look like and so on.
 
sirreal63 said:
Interesting, I go through about a pound of HC GFO a year, or about $30 a year. Zeoliths get changed out how often and at what cost?
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I go threw a lot more HC GFO then that. It's proboly costing me around100-120 a year. That stuff is pricey! (If there is a cheaper source then BRS please pm me hahah)
 
I use the BRS stuff and have never regenerated it, which is a great thing to do if you are using a lot of it.
 
karsseboom said:
You think so? Here is one of those colony's

Straight out of water!

400BC782-1F96-4C23-8A3A-E36C6209EC33-129-00000003AB88D7B4_zps381ddc24.jpg


That tank is one of the most famous aquariums in the world. Those corals are well documented. The other picture was totm here on reef central.
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just amassing bud. thumbs up
 
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