Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[rtparty]

No need to go there just because I'm saying something you don't like. You're working with the manufacturer but you're threatening the retailer.

Do whatever your conscience allows you. Personally I think fair treatment is a two-way street.

I'm not Uncle Salty but I think you were quite rash to begin with. It may not have been intended but that's how it was perceived.

Do you know the full story? Do you think Salty should post everything that has gone on and post dirty laundry for all to see?

How do you know what Vertex has or hasn't said? What if they are the problem in the whole deal? What if they told Salty they will fix the problem and it has taken 6 months to fix one thing? Then another 2-3 months to fix the next? :idea:

All of the sudden it has been a year and none of it was your fault. You have invested nearly $3k plus all your time.

I have been in this situation before, although I didn't have near the amount invested. I have been strung along by a company for over a year before they fixed the issue. All I got was promise after promise and no delivery. It is a bad situation to be in.

Let's play nice now! :beer:

 

[d2mini]

Let's keep it on topic, guys… mmmkay?
This is too good of a thread to end up with the mods locking it.

 

[Magickiwi]

Like I said before, (back to the reading thing) I am not threatening to do anything but be truthful.
Which part of the above sentence confuses you?:debi:
All I am expecting is fair treatment on a large investment for a working man like myself.
Yes a two way street would be appreciated.

Call it what you want, it's a threat. And it's not truthful if you fail to include information like "Hey I kept this thing for almost two years but felt for some reason that the retailer should have given me my money back". But hey, what kind of impact would a voice like yours have anyway...

A two way street would be a reasonable amount of time to return a product you aren't satisfied with.

Say what you want, I'm finished giving you your dose of common sense.

 

[Aqualund]

I am more than willing to take 20-25% less than what I paid for it.

In this hobby, the minute you plug something in you lose 50% of its resell value. I dont know why you would think that your light is any different.

If the programming didn't work day one that's the time to return it. Beyond the 1 year limited warranty, the burden of responsibility is on the owner.

And in your case, you paid $2700 for a light fixture...and did it off of RC instead of a dealer? That's the risk you take.

Anyone who has been in the hobby long enough has made mistakes well exceeding $2700...if not individually...then definitely collectively.

I think you need to lower your bar for what you expect in return...so that you can move on.

 

[rtparty]

In this hobby, the minute you plug something in you lose 50% of its resell value.

I don't agree with this at all. I regularly get 65-70% with my equipment. But I take care of my stuff.

 

[BrianD]

Let's keep it on topic, guys"¦ mmmkay?
This is too good of a thread to end up with the mods locking it.

Good advice here.

 

[Aqualund]

I don't agree with this at all. I regularly get 65-70% with my equipment. But I take care of my stuff.

You don't have to agree with it for it to be true. By and large in this hobby...a majority of the products are sold way over their material value. Yes, you may be able to get some or even most people to pay more than they should for any one of the products. But anyone who would do an actual material examination of the intrinsic cost of the goods that went into making that product will see that the actual value has been marked up 2 or 3 times before it hit the shelves.

So when you talk about the true value of things...what are we talking here?

Expecting an 85% return on something that already at its core was only ever really "worth" 30% of it's original price according to its material is just an unhealthy road to be on imho.

It was only "worth" $2700 at that time because Salty chose to pay for it. Nowadays, that value is diminished. It's like expecting an insurance company to reimburse you for the $40,000 chevy because that's what you paid for it...but we all know they only do bluebook...so you'll get $17,000 at best.

 

[albano]

... But anyone who would do an actual material examination of the intrinsic cost of the goods that went into making that product will see that the actual value has been marked up 2 or 3 times before it hit the shelves.

So when you talk about the true value of things...what are we talking here?

"actual material examination of the intrinsic cost of the goods" ... THIS, is what I always forget to do!

 

[rtparty]

You don't have to agree with it for it to be true. By and large in this hobby...a majority of the products are sold way over their material value. Yes, you may be able to get some or even most people to pay more than they should for any one of the products. But anyone who would do an actual material examination of the intrinsic cost of the goods that went into making that product will see that the actual value has been marked up 2 or 3 times before it hit the shelves.

So when you talk about the true value of things...what are we talking here?

Expecting an 85% return on something that already at its core was only ever really "worth" 30% of it's original price according to its material is just an unhealthy road to be on imho.

It was only "worth" $2700 at that time because Salty chose to pay for it. Nowadays, that value is diminished. It's like expecting an insurance company to reimburse you for the $40,000 chevy because that's what you paid for it...but we all know they only do bluebook...so you'll get $17,000 at best.

Something is worth whatever someone will pay. It's that simple. I don't care if it's marked up 10% or 1000%.

The insurance example is bogus because it depends on your insurance plan. That is totally individual and case by case.

I bet Salty can ask the $2k and get pretty close to that. People are still buying them new so at $2k it's still a deal for somebody.

But we digress....back to the topic

 

[alton]

The best thing I have seen of the LED craze is the price I am able to buy MH stuff for.
Luminbright Pendant and electronic ballast $75 and with a new lamp $125 total cost for lighting my 65 gallon. If I would of gone LED to match the output I would have to buy 2 x LED fixtures because of the center brace with a total cost of $350. Also picked up 5 electronic ballast this weekend for $120, I feel like I won the lottery.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

You don't have to agree with it for it to be true. By and large in this hobby...a majority of the products are sold way over their material value. Yes, you may be able to get some or even most people to pay more than they should for any one of the products. But anyone who would do an actual material examination of the intrinsic cost of the goods that went into making that product will see that the actual value has been marked up 2 or 3 times before it hit the shelves.

So when you talk about the true value of things...what are we talking here?

Expecting an 85% return on something that already at its core was only ever really "worth" 30% of it's original price according to its material is just an unhealthy road to be on imho.

It was only "worth" $2700 at that time because Salty chose to pay for it. Nowadays, that value is diminished. It's like expecting an insurance company to reimburse you for the $40,000 chevy because that's what you paid for it...but we all know they only do bluebook...so you'll get $17,000 at best.

Look up the current price for a 5' Illumina.
I paid $2,688 - that was cheap and why I bought it.
The fact remains that it does not perform "as advertised".
I have taken very good care of it, and it is lin like new condition.
If someone that has never had MHs got their hands on this fixture they would absolutely love it. It is powerful, (I run my whites @ 40% and it is bright) great shimmer effect, sleek and attractive and does sunrise and sunset beautifully. It just doen't match MH.
I don't want to go back to the high electric bills that come with MHs, but my tank is something I look at a lot, and I want it lit wth MH.

 

[Aqualund]

Look up the current price for a 5' Illumina.
I paid $2,688 - that was cheap and why I bought it.
The fact remains that it does not perform "as advertised".
I have taken very good care of it, and it is lin like new condition.
If someone that has never had MHs got their hands on this fixture they would absolutely love it. It is powerful, (I run my whites @ 40% and it is bright) great shimmer effect, sleek and attractive and does sunrise and sunset beautifully. It just doen't match MH.
I don't want to go back to the high electric bills that come with MHs, but my tank is something I look at a lot, and I want it lit wth MH.

You got sold on the name. It's not "worth" more than $1500 imho. Even that is pushing it.

Each one of those boards is less than $10 a piece, and each led ranges from .50 to $5.00, majority of them being less than $1.00 a piece. The heatsink is the most expensive part of the whole thing, even then, it's not a $3500 heatsink brand new.

 

[stancfii]

This thread reminds me of the infamous "contest" from an episode of Seinfeld. For three years, I have been "master of my domain", but now I'm out too. I've done a few builds of DIY, a Razor, realized I had all of those parts and went back to DIY, then to T5/DIY. In three years, the only things I've been able to keep are LPS, mushrooms, and zoas. I did have a few SPS frags, but they just sat there and never grew--I haven't grown coralline algae in 3 years (and yes, I test my water regularly). I even bought a PAR meter to makes sure things were at the right levels.

While traveling, I found an LFS that had two tanks next to each other--one had a gen1 Radion, the other had a 400w Radium. The second I saw it, I knew I had to go back to halide. It was funny, I was raving to my co-worker about the halide, and the lfs dude kept telling me the LED was what I really wanted.

Alton is right, the best thing about the LED craze is how cheap MH equipment has gotten. I am currently running one 250w over my 40 breeder, but just bought everything to switch to two 150w for better spread. The colors are great, the shimmer is amazing, and it really is like having a piece of the ocean in my bedroom.

For me, looking at the two side by side was like looking at a beautiful oil painting, and then a printed copy right next to it. The printed copy works for some, but not for others. I'm into it for the aesthetics, not the assumed cost savings, and am happy to be back with halides.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

You got sold on the name. It's not "worth" more than $1500 imho. Even that is pushing it.

Each one of those boards is less than $10 a piece, and each led ranges from .50 to $5.00, majority of them being less than $1.00 a piece. The heatsink is the most expensive part of the whole thing, even then, it's not a $3500 heatsink brand new.

You are mistaken. And your opinion in this case is just that, your opinion.
I was sold on the functionality of the fixture.
It does sunrise from the east and sunset as well.
You can program it to do many functions like clouds and lightning that other fixtures simply cannot do.
It is a great light, but as many others have said here "I just want to go back to MH".

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

this thread reminds me of the infamous "contest" from an episode of seinfeld. For three years, i have been "master of my domain", but now i'm out too. I've done a few builds of diy, a razor, realized i had all of those parts and went back to diy, then to t5/diy. In three years, the only things i've been able to keep are lps, mushrooms, and zoas. I did have a few sps frags, but they just sat there and never grew--i haven't grown coralline algae in 3 years (and yes, i test my water regularly). I even bought a par meter to makes sure things were at the right levels.

While traveling, i found an lfs that had two tanks next to each other--one had a gen1 radion, the other had a 400w radium. The second i saw it, i knew i had to go back to halide. It was funny, i was raving to my co-worker about the halide, and the lfs dude kept telling me the led was what i really wanted.

Alton is right, the best thing about the led craze is how cheap mh equipment has gotten. I am currently running one 250w over my 40 breeder, but just bought everything to switch to two 150w for better spread. The colors are great, the shimmer is amazing, and it really is like having a piece of the ocean in my bedroom.

For me, looking at the two side by side was like looking at a beautiful oil painting, and then a printed copy right next to it. The printed copy works for some, but not for others. I'm into it for the aesthetics, not the assumed cost savings, and am happy to be back with halides.

+2688

 

[rtparty]

You got sold on the name. It's not "worth" more than $1500 imho. Even that is pushing it.

Each one of those boards is less than $10 a piece, and each led ranges from .50 to $5.00, majority of them being less than $1.00 a piece. The heatsink is the most expensive part of the whole thing, even then, it's not a $3500 heatsink brand new.

Are you against people making money and making a living to feed their families?

Seriously, do you walk into Best Buy, break down the cost of a TV and tell them you can make your own for 25% of MSRP? Therefore, they are extremely overpriced and need to sell the TV for its actual "worth". The "worth" of which is determined by you because you are cheap.

Something is worth what someone will pay. Nothing else matters.

Can we get back on topic and actually share something now?

 

[mos90]

back to topic.

i have been running custom reef breeder photon 48's over my 300g reef for about 3 months. after some slowly raising intensity weekly im up to 90b/70%w and still going. i add 10% weekly to 1 channel. my lights are at 17" awl. par on the sand is roughly 100 and close to 300 6" below the water line.

i have ran multiple mh fixtures over the 3 years i have been doing reef tanks. my favorite being 400w radiums.

i have had great results with coral growth and coloration with my leds. i enjoy the colors and really will enjoy the lack of heat in the summer. with 3-400 radiums my room got so hot that the a/c couldnt keep up . and the chiller still ran all day.

i will say that so far, most of my corals look as good if not better then when i had the mh/t5s . im still fighting with some hairy algae but that a different story and not either lights fault. i need to learn to take a good picture.

 

[nynick]

Stay on topic. The second hand value of some fixture has nothing what so ever to do with this.

Lots of people like this thread, don't make the mods close it.

 

[Uncle Salty 05]

Agreed.
My situation is what it is.
Bottom line, I prefer halides.

 

[stancfii]

I'm glad others can make LEDs work. I wish I could have, but couldn't. I missed the brightness, color, and shimmer of halides, and never grew to like the color separation/shimmer of LEDs that was present in everything I've seen and done with them. If I had waited a couple years to jump on the bandwagon and went with a Reefbreeder's fixture, I *might* have been singing a different story.