Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[Fredfish]

I apoligize, that was wrong of me ... I mean Chinese LED fixture... and for those with Shop lights, I mean MH units.

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time.

As I see more efficiency data, I'm less inclinded to use any of the Chinese fixtures, but a lot of people do want them so it's worth while seeing what they can do.

 

[jestronix]

One mans Chinese brick is another mans reef lighting... Just saying...

jestronix. I think some sort of MH to, Chinese fixture is very useful as there are a lot of people out there buying these units.

I think you should actually start your own thread so that neither this thread or your comparison get derailed.

It is a good idea to start a new thread for my little side project, I can jump in here now and then with updates

I guess if we had a new thread with lots of people doing similar tests with other levels of quality lighting we could cover the field. But every tank is different. I'm keen to ad a third light, but with focus on fragging. Any suggestions on what I should add ? Keep in mind I don't want to spend too much.

 

[muttley101]

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time.

As I see more efficiency data, I'm less inclinded to use any of the Chinese fixtures, but a lot of people do want them so it's worth while seeing what they can do.

I know, you were not giving me a hard time lol... And it is worth seeing... I applaud him for putting the experiment together. It would of been nice to see a control with the same corals on each side, but that costs money.

I hope the LED's fair well in this experiment , if it doesn't you are going to see people come out of the wood works to tell you how they are coloring up and growing corals just fine with this same fixture.

 

[jestronix]

I know, you were not giving me a hard time lol... And it is worth seeing... I applaud him for putting the experiment together. It would of been nice to see a control with the same corals on each side, but that costs money.

I hope the LED's fair well in this experiment , if it doesn't you are going to see people come out of the wood works to tell you how they are coloring up and growing corals just fine with this same fixture.

Actually I'm running same corals on each side, I fragged them specifically for the test, I have a couple odd ones chucked in but plan on fragging them this weekend. I'm going to take fortnightly photos of each coral and document. Hopefully after a year I can do up a short video of each corals growth with dates. I'm running a lot of redundancy on my system also, 400ah UPS keeps all pumps running for 48 hours + or 12 hours with half lighting. also looking into small genni for longer outages. So hopefully this testing my main tank doesn't come undone along the way.

 

[jestronix]

Just forgot to mention if anyones interested in cheap and effective SMS and logging, im running a sitemonitor from packetflux linked with PRTG software(free) and the cost of a few sms pre purchased. Also allows me to check from phone or webpage. link to my home monitor http://jestronix.noip.me/public/mapshow.htm?id=2007&mapid=live

hope its not too off topic, just relates to my post above for the test.

 

[GroktheCube]

Update from my end:

I've had the Cebu Sun over my 120 for about a month now. I'm using 2x 250w radiums on Hamilton M80 ballasts, along with two ATI true actinics, one blue+, one purple+, and two BML ~10-14kish strips for sunrise/sunset.

The difference in coral color between this setup and LED/T5 is absolutely NIGHT AND DAY. Many of my corals are showing colors I have never seen before, in particular pinks and purples. All of my Poicioporids are now showing deep magenta on their upper surfaces, my purple Digi is more purple than I've ever seen it with some metallic green flecks showing up in certain polyps on the upper surfaces, and everything is much more vibrant in terms of color.

I've also had a few corals that I had all but given up on after a tank teardown/reboot come back from the dead. I have a Forest Fire Digi that was down to a handful of rather bleached looking polyps, and has grown to recover about 90% of the skeleton that was exposed. A BN that I had grown from small frag to softball sized STNed down to maybe 5% of its former self, and all of the miniscule frags I managed to salvage have at least doubled in size of the past month. The same also applies to my Birds of Paradise BN. My huge (grew it from ~.5" square to multi-tiered and 12"+) red Cap was about 80% bleached following the teardown, and it has made a complete recovery.

To top it off, reduced heater usage ended up saving ~$20 last month.

To anyone contemplating the switch to MH, GO FOR IT.

 

[jestronix]

Update from my end:

I've had the Cebu Sun over my 120 for about a month now. I'm using 2x 250w radiums on Hamilton M80 ballasts, along with two ATI true actinics, one blue+, one purple+, and two BML ~10-14kish strips for sunrise/sunset.

The difference in coral color between this setup and LED/T5 is absolutely NIGHT AND DAY. Many of my corals are showing colors I have never seen before, in particular pinks and purples. All of my Poicioporids are now showing deep magenta on their upper surfaces, my purple Digi is more purple than I've ever seen it with some metallic green flecks showing up in certain polyps on the upper surfaces, and everything is much more vibrant in terms of color.

I've also had a few corals that I had all but given up on after a tank teardown/reboot come back from the dead. I have a Forest Fire Digi that was down to a handful of rather bleached looking polyps, and has grown to recover about 90% of the skeleton that was exposed. A BN that I had grown from small frag to softball sized STNed down to maybe 5% of its former self, and all of the miniscule frags I managed to salvage have at least doubled in size of the past month. The same also applies to my Birds of Paradise BN. My huge (grew it from ~.5" square to multi-tiered and 12"+) red Cap was about 80% bleached following the teardown, and it has made a complete recovery.

To top it off, reduced heater usage ended up saving ~$20 last month.

To anyone contemplating the switch to MH, GO FOR IT.

I'm seeing the same on my main tank , led for 5 years then led T5 mix for a year and now T5 halide for the last two months. Growth , colour rendition are purely evident, I wouldn't have believed it a few moths back. Your seeing even better results than me on top quality halide and ballasts I bet.

Got some recent shots or a link to your tank ?

 

[Bpb]

I know it's been pointed out but I wanted to chime in. I'll say it a few times. Love the spirit of the experiment of mh vs led in a closed system. Good stuff. The experiment done by vivid aquariums is stellar and executed wonderfully.

I know the poster on here with the d120 and the mh shop light is just having a little fun but let's be honest...even the biggest mh supporters will pick the led in this showdown. I don't think the argument has ever been "the cheapest most useless and low wattage mh unit will smoke the best led unit all day".

To equalize quality a bit, instead of battling stoplight vs d120, go get one or two of the utilitech led strips from lowes or Home Depot. People use those on planted tanks and fw fish only tanks all the time. That or maybe a Marineland single brite led unit. Or replace the mh unit with a mogul pendant and coralife ballast and a pllusrite 20k bulb or something. Cheap but appropriate vs cheap but appropriate. Not cheap but appropriate vs nobody in the world would use this for sps.

Just saying. Love the experiment, but because of the extreme disparity in usefulness of the competitors, I wouldn't even expect the anecdotal results to be useful

 

[SPotter]

how long is everyone running their MH's for each day? do you run the same amount of time every day? Do you think it would make a difference if some days you ran them longer than others?

 

[clugo]

Guys. this is a great thread. It's caused me to think hard about current light purchase for my new 72x28x28 tank.

I'm strongly considering going just T5 by purchasing a 5ft ATI Sunpower 8x80 but I can help but wonder why more don't just go only T5.

-why spend the money in equipment and electricity that comes w going w MH?

-what are the benefits of MH w/T5 over going only w/T5?

I'm not trying to argue. I want to get what will be best for the corals that will going into my system so I'm wrestling with this decision.

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[SPotter]

Guys. this is a great thread. It's caused me to think hard about current light purchase for my new 72x28x28 tank.

I'm strongly considering going just T5 by purchasing a 5ft ATI Sunpower 8x80 but I can help but wonder why more don't just go only T5.

-why spend the money in equipment and electricity that comes w going w MH?

-what are the benefits of MH w/T5 over going only w/T5?

I'm not trying to argue. I want to get what will be best for the corals that will going into my system so I'm wrestling with this decision.

Any insight is appreciated.

T5 are great and on my last tank which was 72x36x28 I went from LEDS to T5 and had great success with the T5's.

equipment cost....my reflectors were $149 each but got them with 10% off and I bought used ballasts for $75 each. I got my bulbs on sale as well and believe I paid $65 each. So for my mh set up it cost me about $825. By the time you buy the fixture and the bulbs it will cost you just about the same (unless you buy used). I liked my T5's but there was no shimmer and the tank looked a little flat.

Energy cost difference....If you ran 3 x 250w mh and IMO you don't need 400w's on that tank your total wattage will be 110w's more so the energy cost difference won't be that much. I had to run my T5's much closer to the water surface and that caused temp issues for me. My MH's are a good 15" above the water and I only see about .5 degree swing during the day.

In the end both are great options but I wanted to keep it simple. Didn't want to have to worry about bulb combos and running them closer to the water. Both are tried and proven methods for growing coral and now that I have used LED, T5 and MH...it will be MH for me for as long as they are still available.

 

[d2mini]

how long is everyone running their MH's for each day? do you run the same amount of time every day? Do you think it would make a difference if some days you ran them longer than others?

Mine run the same time every day. About 7 hours.
I suppose you could set up a schedule to follow the natural increasing/decreasing sunlight times throughout the year but I don't think I'd randomize or be up and down throughout the week. Maybe a short day or a lights out day once in a while to simulate cloudy or stormy days.

I can help but wonder why more don't just go only T5.

-why spend the money in equipment and electricity that comes w going w MH?

-what are the benefits of MH w/T5 over going only w/T5?

Personal preference.
I don't care for the complete lack of shadows and shimmer with just T5.
I also don't want to mess with all the different bulb configurations and trying to figure out a combo that looks good to my eye, grows healthy and colorful coral, and doesn't create algae or other issues. Similar to LED.
MH is the closest looking thing to sunlight IMHO. I can just buy a single proven bulb, and if I want to tweak slightly I can do that with T5. But mostly my T5 are used for dusk/dawn and giving me that actinic color pop.

 

[clugo]

dennis, are you using radium bulbs?

 

[asonitez]

Mine run the same time every day. About 7 hours.
I suppose you could set up a schedule to follow the natural increasing/decreasing sunlight times throughout the year but I don't think I'd randomize or be up and down throughout the week. Maybe a short day or a lights out day once in a while to simulate cloudy or stormy days.



Personal preference.
I don't care for the complete lack of shadows and shimmer with just T5.
I also don't want to mess with all the different bulb configurations and trying to figure out a combo that looks good to my eye, grows healthy and colorful coral, and doesn't create algae or other issues. Similar to LED.
MH is the closest looking thing to sunlight IMHO. I can just buy a single proven bulb, and if I want to tweak slightly I can do that with T5. But mostly my T5 are used for dusk/dawn and giving me that actinic color pop.

D2 In your new build are you still going to use Radion Pro's?? - I have been using a CORALVUE All in one fixture (2x 250 MH and 2 T5's w 12 1W Blue LED's integrated) I love the light but I can't tell you how much I'm tempted to try LED's again. Specifically the RADION brand. My Absolute best tank was with MH's and T5. I never had much success with LED's.

 

[d2mini]

dennis, are you using radium bulbs?

Yes.

D2 In your new build are you still going to use Radion Pro's?? - I have been using a CORALVUE All in one fixture (2x 250 MH and 2 T5's w 12 1W Blue LED's integrated) I love the light but I can't tell you how much I'm tempted to try LED's again. Specifically the RADION brand. My Absolute best tank was with MH's and T5. I never had much success with LED's.

I haven't run LED since February of this year.

 

[cox777]

I was thinking about switching from leds to halides but you actually save money with the leds energy plus bulb switch out, every year adds up to more than leds even the best leds out there are cheaper than halides, leds produce far less heat so you usually don't need a chiller just a fan works. but I have only soft corals in my tank and dosen't require super strong light just get more leds If you think its not strong enough, I use to have 250 watt halide plus two 65 wat pc actinics on my 60gal cube mostly soft coral tank couple of sps then I switched to radion g2 and noticed no difference with the growth. My future tank I was thinking about using 400w halides for a 120 gal 48x24x24 but the cost would be very simillar to buying leds and I thought if I needed stronger lighting I could get another led unit, they are light weight and compact will fit better than halides.

 

[d2mini]

I was thinking about switching from leds to halides but you actually save money with the leds energy plus bulb switch out, every year adds up to more than leds even the best leds out there are cheaper than halides, leds produce far less heat so you usually don't need a chiller just a fan works.

As talked about in detail previously in this long thread, it will generally take people several years before they realize any savings from electricity usage and bulb changes, due to the much higher cost of LED fixtures compared to MH/T5.
At which point you will probably be wanting to upgrade your LEDs to the latest and greatest. Your mileage may vary depending on where you live and your electricity rate and how long you keep your fixtures but generally the savings isn't as much as some may have you believe.

 

[SPotter]

as talked about in detail previously in this long thread, it will generally take people several years before they realize any savings from electricity usage and bulb changes, due to the much higher cost of led fixtures compared to mh/t5.

At which point you will probably be wanting to upgrade your leds to the latest and greatest. Your mileage may vary depending on where you live and your electricity rate and how long you keep your fixtures but generally the savings isn't as much as some may have you believe.

+1

 

[DavidinGA]

I was thinking about switching from leds to halides but you actually save money with the leds energy plus bulb switch out, every year adds up to more than leds even the best leds out there are cheaper than halides, leds produce far less heat so you usually don't need a chiller just a fan works. but I have only soft corals in my tank and dosen't require super strong light just get more leds If you think its not strong enough, I use to have 250 watt halide plus two 65 wat pc actinics on my 60gal cube mostly soft coral tank couple of sps then I switched to radion g2 and noticed no difference with the growth. My future tank I was thinking about using 400w halides for a 120 gal 48x24x24 but the cost would be very simillar to buying leds and I thought if I needed stronger lighting I could get another led unit, they are light weight and compact will fit better than halides.

I just picked up a complete 250w MH setup for $190 off Craigslist for my 6ft tank. To buy leds that "could" match the performance of the MH would mean 3 radion pros or 3 Hydra 52's for $1800+.

Now, how long is a little extra electricity expense and buying new bulbs before it would add up to those leds ($1800)?!!?

MH and T5 can be had used at phenomenal/unbeatable prices these days... Everyone is all "I buy leds to save money" when in reality their break even point (from the insane initial purchase price) is usually like 5-10 years. Now how many led users will stay with that one led unit for that long...?

 

[cox777]

considering costs between leds and halides

considering costs between leds and halides

sure the initial cost is higher for Leds if you go with the best, and halides are more reasonable these days but the energy savings is whats best about the leds, at half the watts you can save considerable amounts of money in a 5 year period, and no need for a chiller which is fairly expensive to purchase plus to run. Also bulb changes for the next 5 years, leds are lighter and you can pack more of them in a small space, plus the color is adjustable and much more features than halides and more reliable, I don't have much experience though with leds and sps but softies I know leds have no problem. In my tank I had a 250w halide to start then switched to g2 led pesonally I prefer the radions but I don't know how it would compare to a 400w halide but I think a radion pro g3 could be close to the proformance of a 400w halide anyone know, leds are usually lighter and easier to move around and position better also. Halide are better for a no up front cost more of a finance plan to stretch your budget that's why I was also considering halide for future use hopefully the cost of led will drop but I think they are just getting better and the price point is the same.