Aquastyleonline.com LED questions.
- Thread starter RotaryGeek
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arentspowell
Member
Got my kit in yesterday and put most of it together. Just have some more wires to solder down for the LEDs, the other one is done. I ordered the 72 kit with the two largest heat sinks for my 75. I need to go to home depot to figure out a better way to hang them then the "hanging kit" it came with. I run an open top so I need a kit longer then 3 feet. Ill post some pictures when its done.
nemosworld
New member
I would go with a 72 and 36 led kit and use 5ft c channels for the heatsink.
you can do strips of 18-20 leds on each channel.
nemosworld
New member
that will be more than fine for those dims.
he can do 36 leds per heatsink or go with smaller heatsinks and do 18 per.
he can do 36 leds per heatsink or go with smaller heatsinks and do 18 per.
MADtanks
Stix Anyone?
wassup bro, did you ever do the test with the other pots? I had bought the rheostats but they magically disapeared from myhouse lol... so i was thinking of buyin them again, just wondering if you ever did the test with the other pots....
Thanks.
gammer_100
New member
I want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences and results. I am going to be ordering (next week) dimable 36 and 72 kit for my 125 gallon 72" .. I currently only have 3 x 175 watt mh w/ 2 96 watt pc. I want to believe that this LED venture will help to jump up my par, and make me have to frag more often! What a good problem that would be.
Led's I'm leaning towards 50/50 10k w to rb .. I am ordering 6 x 4.5k leds to swap out the 10ks in the middle and add 80 deg optics to them to help the spread.
Does this sound about right?
Led's I'm leaning towards 50/50 10k w to rb .. I am ordering 6 x 4.5k leds to swap out the 10ks in the middle and add 80 deg optics to them to help the spread.
Does this sound about right?
nemosworld
New member
No problem, glad we can help.
Just a FIY to anyone with dims similar to mines( 60*30*29) or larger
72 leds will not work. it just don't have the coverage.
i have 5 channels with 18 leds on each, and each channel spread 2 inches apart.
doing this reduced my par and still does not cover front to back well.
i added a 5th bar in the center with 12 xpg's at 1050ma and 80 degree optics.
6cw and 6nw, i need to add some more royal blues now to get a better color blend and probably add another 36 leds from aquastyle to cover the back of the tank. this or leave the system the way it is and get more NPS corals and place them on the back wall were the light is pretty much dim.
another idea is to add a string of xml's at 1750 ma with 80 degree optics and some xte's at 900ma with no optics.
I have no doubt the kit i have would have been fine for a 60*24 tank no more than 24 inches tall. Happy building and Happy New Year everyone.
Just a FIY to anyone with dims similar to mines( 60*30*29) or larger
72 leds will not work. it just don't have the coverage.
i have 5 channels with 18 leds on each, and each channel spread 2 inches apart.
doing this reduced my par and still does not cover front to back well.
i added a 5th bar in the center with 12 xpg's at 1050ma and 80 degree optics.
6cw and 6nw, i need to add some more royal blues now to get a better color blend and probably add another 36 leds from aquastyle to cover the back of the tank. this or leave the system the way it is and get more NPS corals and place them on the back wall were the light is pretty much dim.
another idea is to add a string of xml's at 1750 ma with 80 degree optics and some xte's at 900ma with no optics.
I have no doubt the kit i have would have been fine for a 60*24 tank no more than 24 inches tall. Happy building and Happy New Year everyone.
crooks
New member
My tank is 60x36x26 any chance I can see a pic of your tank with these leds?
nemosworld
New member
sure, it's on the first page. with out water, i will take some pics of it with water and then with the 12 xpg's i added. I decided to buy a meanwell 1750 ma driver and will be ordering some xml's soon. plus some xte's.
I'm in no rush, tank just hit it's 4th week cycle and i have to plumb the fuge in which will set it back a little.
actually, here is a video i posted of my system.
http://youtu.be/eBJOstKn2N4
start at the 4min mark for the leds, or enjoy the whole show.
I'm in no rush, tank just hit it's 4th week cycle and i have to plumb the fuge in which will set it back a little.
actually, here is a video i posted of my system.
http://youtu.be/eBJOstKn2N4
start at the 4min mark for the leds, or enjoy the whole show.
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lowfi
New member
Hey everyone!
Just found out about aquastyles and this is a great thread for information. I hate to be another "what kit should I buy" person, but I guess I am.
I just setup a 90 gallon reef which I mainly would like to feature SPS. The tank is 48x24 but the opening of the top of the tank is only 44x11.5". Being mainly for SPS, I want to get the largest dimmable kit that aquastyles sells. Would this give good enough par readings for the majority of the tank and would I be able to fit the needed heat sinks in the space provided? I would love a phoenix 14k look to the color spectrum, and if I would like more blue later just add a few more blue led strips. So will the 90 kit be enough or should I get more? These DIY kits are much more affordable than the other leds on the market (ai, radion, etc.) What optics should I get, the 60 or the 80's?
How do these bulbs compare to cree's, or do we not have that information yet? How many electrical cords do you need to plug in for the 90 kit?
Thanks so much everyone for the help. If I actually do decide to pull the trigger, putting it all together will really scare the crap out of me.
Just found out about aquastyles and this is a great thread for information. I hate to be another "what kit should I buy" person, but I guess I am.
I just setup a 90 gallon reef which I mainly would like to feature SPS. The tank is 48x24 but the opening of the top of the tank is only 44x11.5". Being mainly for SPS, I want to get the largest dimmable kit that aquastyles sells. Would this give good enough par readings for the majority of the tank and would I be able to fit the needed heat sinks in the space provided? I would love a phoenix 14k look to the color spectrum, and if I would like more blue later just add a few more blue led strips. So will the 90 kit be enough or should I get more? These DIY kits are much more affordable than the other leds on the market (ai, radion, etc.) What optics should I get, the 60 or the 80's?
How do these bulbs compare to cree's, or do we not have that information yet? How many electrical cords do you need to plug in for the 90 kit?
Thanks so much everyone for the help. If I actually do decide to pull the trigger, putting it all together will really scare the crap out of me.
redfishsc
New member
I was under the impression that the Maxwellens produced their own internal reference voltage. We would need someone to put a multimeter on the dimmer wires to see what that voltage is.
How exactly did you confirm that the 0-10v won't work? I'm just curious.
I'm not following what you are saying. Let me see if I am understanding you correctly.
You used AA batteries for a 1.5 and 3 volt signal and applied that to the dimmer wires, right?
If that's the case, and if these Maxwellens produce their own reference voltage, you're risking blowing the dimmer. Some LED drivers have tender dimmers and if they get too much voltage, things go wrong.
This would entirely explain the odd results you got but contradict what you're saying about the polarity. How did you decide that they were not polarized?
First-- you said that the dimmer wires were not polarized. I can't see how this is true at all. Any DC system is polarized. One of those wires has to be + and one -. When you applied the batteries in the position that shut the light off, you basically were giving it reversed voltage (ie just blocking the voltage signal altogether as current isn't going to flow backwards through the batteries). That's why the LEDs shut off. No voltage detected in the dimmer.
But when you hooked it up the other way, your LEDs did a lightening effect. I don't know what exactly the internal electronics were doing, but you effectively were giving it too much voltage and possibly wreaking havoc with your dimmer. Chances are the flashing/dimming effect were the capacitor charging and discharging, not quite sure what exactly to be doing with the excess voltage reference in the dimmer.
Is anyone dimming these with a 10K ohm pot? If so, and it's working a smooth linear 0-100% (or something similar) then they likely are a 10v reference. If that's the case, there should be some way to rig them up to accept a DIM4 or similar controller.
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00Warpig00
New member
I put 1.5v and 3v (in two separate tests) across the two dimmer wires. I tried one polarity then the other. One polarity causes all the LED's to turn off. The other causes a lightning strobe effect. If they dim using 0-10V this would not happen in both polarities with both test voltages. I would get some result of lights constant on with one polarity and lights either brighter or dimmer with the same polarity and a slightly different voltage. Those were none of my results.
Correct
Yes I realize this... I was well aware of the risks. Even BEFORE I did it. That was a chance with one of my 4 maxwellen dimmers I was willing to take in the spirit of trying to find out something about them when NO tech info is available about them. Believe me I searched for days. They are potted and cannot be easily opened for closer examination also. The ONLY way is to experiment.
Results odd.. yeah maybe... but consistent with two different (low) voltage levels in one polarity and consistent with two different (low) voltage levels with the other polarity. The results between polarities was not consistent, but truthfully I wouldn't expect it to be. I probably should have communicated better. The wires are not marked with a polarity they are both the same color and since there is no tech info/data sheets available I took a guess. Yes I realize I could have used a DVM to determine polarity and obviously there IS a polarity or there would be no way current could flow through the circuit. As I said I was willing to take the chance of killing one of my dimmers in the name of progress. Happy to report this did NOT happen. The dimmer survived having a 1.5V and a 3V source connected across the dimmer wires in both polarities and told me exactly what I wanted to know. It doesn't work. If they were controllable by an outside voltage source from 0-10VDC this would have netted me a result OTHER than the two results I got. I don't really care if I sacrifice one of these cheap maxwellen drivers in the name of progress. money well spent If I don't have to replace ALL of them with something more expensive. Since to meet my goals for my LED kit my only alternative is to replace all four of them with much more expensive drivers that I KNOW do what I want from the start it really doesn't much matter to me if I break an egg or two.
Again I miss-communicated, the proper thing to say was the polarity of the dimmers was not marked, and I could not find tech info to tell me. I could have determined polarity with a DVM in half a second, If it wouldn't take me 10 minutes to dig my DVM back out. lol I can determine the same thing with the two batteries which I held in my hand via process of elimination in about 35 seconds.
I agree completely one wire has to be negative and the other positive otherwise with no difference in potential (ie voltage) there can be no current flow and thus no circuit... or no reason for a circuit anyway You can have a circuit with no current flow but there is not much of a point unless the circuit is supposed to be off Not entirely true. Do an experiment. Take a 9V battery then hook two 1.5V batteries in series (3V) hook the - terminal of the two 1.5V battery string to the - terminal of the 9V battery then take your DVM and measure from the + terminal of the 1.5V battery string with your negative lead on the + terminal of the 1.5 string and hook the + lead of your meter up to the + terminal of the 9V battery and tell me what you read. It's gonna be +6VDC. reverse your meter leads for -6VDC. If what you said above was entirely true you would read 0V.
Here is the part I don't think I mentioned earlier. If I short the dim wires together I get LED's full blast. DIM wires floating with infinite resistance I get some light but I would call it minimum brightness. So I have to make some assumptions here because my goal was to determine if the driver was controlled by a 0-10VDC. Again I didn't dig out my meter... maybe I will now just for fun, even though I'm satisfied it's not a 0-10V control in my own mind. It might be PWM I don't know I admittedly didn't test for this but it's NOT 10V or even 5VDC.
IF it was... I have to assume 10V is on one of the two dim wires and putting a resistance across the dim wires (a potentiometer in this case) causes a smaller voltage to be seen on the other wire. When both wires shorted together 10V on both wires = full bright. So when I hook a 1.5V battery or two to make 3V up trying both polarities I should see some things happen. lets say I have 10V and hook my 1.5 V up and end up with 11.5V on the "sense" wire. Could I get the "lightning effect" I describe. ABSOLUTELY I COULD. with the 3V. YES also. It wouldn't surprise me in the least and would actually make sense. But if I then hook up in the opposite polarity you will now see 8.5V on the "sense" wire. In a 0-10V range 8.5V should give me 85% brightness not lights out. 3V down from 10V should give me 7.0V or 70% brightness not lights out.
Agree completely this *could* have been what was going on "sense" wire input overload. but if it was over voltage on the "sense" wire reversing the polarity of my batteries would have netted my lights on at something other than 100% not lights out due to the fact that 1.5V or 3V of batteries is NOT going to reduce you to 0 current flow and 0 volts in a 10V circuit it would put you at 8.5V and 7V respectively and with a 5v sense circuit it would put you at 3.5V and 2V respectively and there would have been a result other than lights off in both cases.
Not yet! I am going to experiment a little more I think. As I mentioned leaving the wires floating nets me lights on at what I will call the dimmest possible setting. GREAT for moonlights on a blue string in my opinion. So infinite resistance and still having lights on ALSO tells me this is not a 0-10V controlled dimmer. If it WAS a floating "sense" wire would most likely net me 0V on the "sense" and lights would be OFF not ON. My ENTIRE purpose for this experiment was to determine specifically if I could use a DIM4... funny you mention it. that's my goal. My alternatives are meanwells which I am told turn OFF at 10%. Another goal of mine is to dim to sunset (DIM4) I'm still looking for feedback on the inventronics dimmers which run very pricey but if they actually dim to 0% light I will gladly spend the money. my other option is to build my own driver. I have considered it, but frankly would rather spend the money for a pre made solution due time constraints on my part.
If anyone has any info/ideas... PLEASE feel free... I'm trying to slay this dragon. I want a sunrise/sunset light system that doesn't click off and startle my fish every night. I've already spent ~$300 on getting to this point. Trying to spend as little as possible but also want a solution that fits my goals. I cant be the only one who has this goal.
Nick
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nemosworld
New member
Thanks! but looks can be deceiving, my par meter says i don't.
the way i have the channels spaced out right now, i get 180 par on the sandbed, and no more than about 2oo-230 in the middle, i think this is due to the optics and the spacing of the channels. towads the back i have the channels a little bit closer and infact get higher par in the middle of the tank.
this is why instead of adding more bridgelux leds, i am adding more cree's.
this will allow me to use less leds and get more par.
once i get the xml's in (did not order yet) i will play with the spacing and show final results.
in the meantime i highly suggest dual 72 led kits for tanks my size and larger.
this will allow you to place the leds closer together and get great par numbers.
all for the cost of a singe ai sol blue and less than a single AI phoenix, ooops-AI Vega. I also decided to keep the background dark so i could keep algae from growing on my diy foam rock wall and grow low light and NPS corals on it.
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nemosworld
New member
the 72 or 90 kit will be fine, i would go with the 60 optics or mix if you can, 80 in center and 60 on outside. the cords are rated for 300v, i think it is safe to put 2 drivers on a cord. one for white and one for blue. in case you want them to turn on at diff times.
redfishsc
New member
Try that same experiment and set your meter to test for current and see if any current flows (I honestly am not sure whether current would pass or not but I am very skeptical). The dimmer requires some current flow at the right voltage; not just latent voltage.
Just because there is voltage doesn't mean current will flow--- you can charge a capacitor with DC and it will read whatever voltage you want, but there will be no current flow at all. Capacitors do not pass DC current, and I also don't think alkaline batteries will either (backwards at least). I'm willing to be wrong here though, but something shut the current flow on your dimmer from your test, and I think it was the reversed polarity that did it.
The dimmer does require at least some current flow even if there is a voltage reading, and I think your reversed polarity tests shut down all current flow.
10v and 5v are the most common ones I've seen, and it's going to be 0 to something. Or else the potentiometer would be useless.
You just described it just right, except for that last part. Just to restate what I said above, even if the reversed polarity did drop the voltage only a tiny amount, it's going to probably block all current flow. If you have no current flow, the dimmer won't work- it must have current even if there is a detectable potential (voltage) applied to it. Thus your reversed polarity tests netted you a "off" situation.
FWIW my Meanwells will turn on at 50mA. I just checked them (they are on digital current meters 100% of the time). It is a slightly sudden "on" but it's not that bad really. Quite dim.
Once you dig out the multimeter and test the voltage on the Maxwellen, and see if it is a 10v, then there must be some way you can use the DIM4. You would just cap off and not use the + wire on the dimmer. You may have to find a grounding place somewhere, may not
Here is a good test---- try connecting your batteries (3v) positive lead to the dimmer wires on your Maxewellen. One wire at a time.... see what happens.
You may have to run the battery's - wire down to a ground in your outlet or a power strip for this to work. I use Radio-shack battery holders for this, they are $2 and hold 2 AA batteries.
If you can do this---- + battery lead to the appropriate dimmer wire, - battery lead to ground.... and you get light..... then all you need to do is discover the max voltage of the dimmer's output and find a controller that can be programmed not to exceed that voltage.
Even if this is a 0-5v dimmer, the DIM4 should theoretically work as long as you don't set it to exceed the 5v max.
i agree nemo everyone's perception is going to be a little diferent, i have a 90 i'm am going to do led's on plus i plan on keeping the 2 bulb t5 retro i have because they just look that good..lol.. but plan on doing away with the MH and led combo i have in there. just havn't figured out what i need yet
00Warpig00
New member
There is current flow, if their wasn't you would read 0V. The volt meter has current flowing through it and calculates voltage using ohms law based on the meter's known resistance and the current flow. This is how a DC volt meter works.
I have to admit it has been about 25 years since I took DC Electronics 101 but we did an actual experiment with multiple batteries in lab back in the 80's so I know this works. We used a light bulb for our load. I've actually done it. So unless batteries have changed to the point they have reverse polarity protection built in to them this should not have changed.
ALL circuits require current flow, unless they are off.
Generally I have to agree with you. This is the puzzle.
The circuit is probably designed in a way that an outside voltage source will not work. Cant tell without a schematic of the Dimmer control.
Thanks for the info I will keep that in mind. Are your Meanwells hooked up to the bridgelux royal blue stars? if so would you consider a sting of 12 or more of them at minimum brightness to be too bright to be used as a moonlight at night. I'm trying to avoid even a slightly sudden on/off if at all possible. I would like to remove my fish's need to feel they need to frantically find a place to hide. If I had my whites shut off before my blues dimmed all the way down to minimum brightness but stay on all night as moonlights this would actually be ideal. I may dig out my meter and take some current readings with the maxwellen drivers at minimum bright just for reference.
I'd love to be able to use a DIM4 or any other controller for that matter I will probably dig more now that we have had this discussion, but I am still currently in the belief it will be a no go with the maxwellen's. Digital potentiometers on the other hand may come in handy. I have investigated that route with the maxwellens to a small degree.
connecting one lead of a battery is pointless. Kinda like clapping with one hand. lol
I might as well just connect a piece of plastic or copper wire. Agreed the other end of the battery would have to be connected somewhere. Earth ground... maybe... but I'm skeptical. Funny you mention the battery holder. One shipped with my aquastyle LED kit and it even has a handy on/off switch. This is what sparked my idea (pun intended) to try batteries in my test along with flashbacks to the 80's with our battery lab experiment in DC elect. 101.
I may try this just to tinker around with it. But I'm not expecting much...
Agree completely... in theory I'd only be able to use 512 of it's 1024 steps from 0-10V. this would be GREAT!
Nick
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If you're just trying to dim the blues once you hit sunset and turn the whites off, put all your white drivers on one plug (hell you could use a timer strip for this too). Take your pot wires and find the polarity #1, put your common to the common of the 120v relay, the other wire will be split to 2 different pots, one to the normally closed contact of the relay and the other to the normally open contact of the relay.
Now bring the ac of your WHITES over to the relay coil to pick the contacts. That honestly to me seems the easiest way, but it won't be transitional, just straight to dim and back to bright when it comes on. You don't necessarily have to use your white's for the ac reference on the coil btw, just my idea. You could also use your fuge lighting as the trigger if it's on a reverse cycle, or whatever plug you would normally use for your blues (since you would be powering the blues 100% of the time, the only time to switch them would be to fall back to moonlighting). All viable options without using more precious programmable outlets
Now bring the ac of your WHITES over to the relay coil to pick the contacts. That honestly to me seems the easiest way, but it won't be transitional, just straight to dim and back to bright when it comes on. You don't necessarily have to use your white's for the ac reference on the coil btw, just my idea. You could also use your fuge lighting as the trigger if it's on a reverse cycle, or whatever plug you would normally use for your blues (since you would be powering the blues 100% of the time, the only time to switch them would be to fall back to moonlighting). All viable options without using more precious programmable outlets
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