Automatic Nori feeder
- Thread starter garydan
- Start date
northbay-reefer
New member
Great design. Thanks for sharing but please don't share too much or someone will steal the design and patten it before you do. When and if you decide to start the patten process, please do not use the online patten companies ... they are frauds and will ripp you off. GL
TheFishMan65
New member
I am pretty sure that since this is published no one else can patten it. They might try, but since this is dated it is evidence of previous work. It may also be too late to patten it - seems like I remember hearing it must be pattened before it is published.
As i've already said, i'm not really interested in patenting it. It'd cost $15000-$20000 to patent, (i'm already an inventor on one patent, co-inventor on another, i'm familiar with process and costs). It's just not worth the money (to me). Yes, i think someone could probably put work into it and make some money on it. I don't have the time. This is, effectivly, public disclosure. Given the thousands of views it's already had (probably hundreds of people), combined with the mention of it on a podcast reaching who knows how many people. Patenting it at this point would be difficult if not impossible. I don't know how the new "first to patent" rules would work though. I decided against patenting before i did the first post.
So, back to the feeder.
2 weeks, mostly hands off. Twice the seam between two sheets separated as it went around the rollers. I suspect that i just didn't attach those seams well enough.
Most of the parts came from McMaster Carr. The motor is their 1 RPM AC synchronous motor. I'm using my reefkeeper for timing, but using a 1 RPM motor it feeds around 2 inches of nori per minute. There's fairly cheap digital timers now that can feed in 1 minute increments that could be used.
The gears are two of their 1" nylon gears.
The rollers are made from FDA approved nylon rod, also from McMaster Carr. It seems that the natural non-stick surface of the nylon works really well.
Everything else is acrylic. 3/8 acrylic tubes make up the supports between the two sides. I threaded the tubes and used nylon screws. The two acrylic sides are just sheet cut with holes drilled in it. Same with the lid. The feed slot is 6 pieces of 3/8 acrylic rod.
The clutch system is because the feed motor is AC and because i'm timing it using the RKE. Yes, you could do a bypass switch, i just don't like the idea of doing that with AC. Also, the feed motor is only 1 RPM, so you'll be sitting there a while with a bypass switch... The clutch works really well to allow bypassing the motor, allows easy extra feedings, and given the torque of the motor it gives some safety if the roller jambs.
Some versions had the motor mounted inside, outside makes it easy to maintain, and my plan is to put a cover over it. The inside is just as open as the outside, a cover would actually mostly seal it up.
Total cost is difficult, since there's been so many revisions, and tons of time invested, by both me and my father. The cost to build one (excluding labor) is around $50, without the motor. At a large enough volume though, the cost could probably be pushed down to $10 or $20.
If we produce and sell them (on a small scale), it'd have to be around $100 without the motor, in order to justify the time. Probably just do instructions on where to order the motor and gears yourself to automate it. Honestly, the idea of selling someone one of these non-waterproofed AC motors to hang above their reef tank is scary... I don't know where you'd find a low RPM, high torque, AC motor that's waterproofed.
DC motors are bigger and from what i've seen have lower torque or higher RPM. I just don't know where to find a DC motor that could do it.
The big challenges with making it:
1) you have to be good with a tablesaw and drill press to make the sides. Preferably have a mill for making the slot to hold the roll of nori.
2) you have to know how to tap acrylic. i've thought about gluing it, but if it were glued you'd never be able to service the rollers. Also, with it screwed together you can fit it in the smallest USPS priority flat rate box.
3) making the holder for the feed slot is non-trivial, it has to hold the acrylic rods and not block the nori as it goes down. Each side has three holes that look like C's with the rod glued in place.
4) finally, the nylon rollers. I tried other materials, more DIY friendly designs. Nothing seems to do as well as the nylon rods. You have to use a lathe to cut down the rods and drill the center hole to tap for the gear. Nylon does not glue well, so you can't glue the gear on, it has to be screwed on. Nylon is gummy, so cutting it with a lathe is also not easy.
5) the clutch is nice to have, but not absolutly necessary. I've ran it without the clutch, with the gear attached to the rollers solid. Initial loading is more difficult, but that's about it. The follower roller has about 1/16" of slop in the slot, so you can pull it out away from the main roller to load.
The current design holds around 3 weeks worth of nori, assuming you feed a piece 1.5" x 8" each day.
If there's someone in the seattle/king county area that would like to give it a try, i have a manual version that i'd love to get someone elses opinion on.
So, back to the feeder.
2 weeks, mostly hands off. Twice the seam between two sheets separated as it went around the rollers. I suspect that i just didn't attach those seams well enough.
Most of the parts came from McMaster Carr. The motor is their 1 RPM AC synchronous motor. I'm using my reefkeeper for timing, but using a 1 RPM motor it feeds around 2 inches of nori per minute. There's fairly cheap digital timers now that can feed in 1 minute increments that could be used.
The gears are two of their 1" nylon gears.
The rollers are made from FDA approved nylon rod, also from McMaster Carr. It seems that the natural non-stick surface of the nylon works really well.
Everything else is acrylic. 3/8 acrylic tubes make up the supports between the two sides. I threaded the tubes and used nylon screws. The two acrylic sides are just sheet cut with holes drilled in it. Same with the lid. The feed slot is 6 pieces of 3/8 acrylic rod.
The clutch system is because the feed motor is AC and because i'm timing it using the RKE. Yes, you could do a bypass switch, i just don't like the idea of doing that with AC. Also, the feed motor is only 1 RPM, so you'll be sitting there a while with a bypass switch... The clutch works really well to allow bypassing the motor, allows easy extra feedings, and given the torque of the motor it gives some safety if the roller jambs.
Some versions had the motor mounted inside, outside makes it easy to maintain, and my plan is to put a cover over it. The inside is just as open as the outside, a cover would actually mostly seal it up.
Total cost is difficult, since there's been so many revisions, and tons of time invested, by both me and my father. The cost to build one (excluding labor) is around $50, without the motor. At a large enough volume though, the cost could probably be pushed down to $10 or $20.
If we produce and sell them (on a small scale), it'd have to be around $100 without the motor, in order to justify the time. Probably just do instructions on where to order the motor and gears yourself to automate it. Honestly, the idea of selling someone one of these non-waterproofed AC motors to hang above their reef tank is scary... I don't know where you'd find a low RPM, high torque, AC motor that's waterproofed.
DC motors are bigger and from what i've seen have lower torque or higher RPM. I just don't know where to find a DC motor that could do it.
The big challenges with making it:
1) you have to be good with a tablesaw and drill press to make the sides. Preferably have a mill for making the slot to hold the roll of nori.
2) you have to know how to tap acrylic. i've thought about gluing it, but if it were glued you'd never be able to service the rollers. Also, with it screwed together you can fit it in the smallest USPS priority flat rate box.
3) making the holder for the feed slot is non-trivial, it has to hold the acrylic rods and not block the nori as it goes down. Each side has three holes that look like C's with the rod glued in place.
4) finally, the nylon rollers. I tried other materials, more DIY friendly designs. Nothing seems to do as well as the nylon rods. You have to use a lathe to cut down the rods and drill the center hole to tap for the gear. Nylon does not glue well, so you can't glue the gear on, it has to be screwed on. Nylon is gummy, so cutting it with a lathe is also not easy.
5) the clutch is nice to have, but not absolutly necessary. I've ran it without the clutch, with the gear attached to the rollers solid. Initial loading is more difficult, but that's about it. The follower roller has about 1/16" of slop in the slot, so you can pull it out away from the main roller to load.
The current design holds around 3 weeks worth of nori, assuming you feed a piece 1.5" x 8" each day.
If there's someone in the seattle/king county area that would like to give it a try, i have a manual version that i'd love to get someone elses opinion on.
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I agree that this is a neat invention, but I have to agree with garydan on the costs of obtaining a patent. I thought it would only cost $10,000, but I guess we live in inflationary times...
There might be money in this if the inventor could develop a "nori cartridge" that fed a roll of nori into the device. One could then arrange for the selling of cartridges with real rolls of nori (not just glued together pieces). This would require developing a source in Asia that could make the nori rolls. The inventor could then develop a business with supplying refills for the cartridges or providing a cartridge refill service (like laser toner cartridge refills).
The above ideas for nori rolls and nori cartridges are hereby assigned to the inventor of the device.
Good Luck...
Bob
There might be money in this if the inventor could develop a "nori cartridge" that fed a roll of nori into the device. One could then arrange for the selling of cartridges with real rolls of nori (not just glued together pieces). This would require developing a source in Asia that could make the nori rolls. The inventor could then develop a business with supplying refills for the cartridges or providing a cartridge refill service (like laser toner cartridge refills).
The above ideas for nori rolls and nori cartridges are hereby assigned to the inventor of the device.
Good Luck...
Bob
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Yes I remember this.
Sorry the photos are gone. I've made many improvements over the design I presented here for reliability and convenience, and ended up taking the plunge and filing a patent for all of those improvements. It's now patent pending.
Best wishes with your plunge - hope this works out for you!
I want one, when's it going to be up for sale? my tang hates that I forget to feed him his nori all the time and make him scavenge around the tank for algea growing in the cracks of rockwork.......he actually gets mad at me and will attack when I do maintenance if I've neglected his veggies for too long!
Patent filed.
Patent filed.
It's amazing how long the patent process takes, but I'll have the patent number Oct 4th, yay.
One thing I've been struggling with is build quality. Up to this point I've been doing everything with a tabletop mill and table saw. Without a lot of labor the seams aren't very good, the glue up isn't very good, and dimensions aren't consistent enough for reliability. Overall, it looks like something someone would make in their garage, but once everything is tuned it works pretty good.
So, I've decided to take the plunge and buy a laser cutter. This way I can make it more consistently and with higher quality, and who doesn't like toys? It'll be a few more weeks, but eventually i'll need some <STRIKE>guinea pigs</STRIKE> beta testers. PM me if you're interested. :bounce3:
Patent filed.
It's amazing how long the patent process takes, but I'll have the patent number Oct 4th, yay.
One thing I've been struggling with is build quality. Up to this point I've been doing everything with a tabletop mill and table saw. Without a lot of labor the seams aren't very good, the glue up isn't very good, and dimensions aren't consistent enough for reliability. Overall, it looks like something someone would make in their garage, but once everything is tuned it works pretty good.
So, I've decided to take the plunge and buy a laser cutter. This way I can make it more consistently and with higher quality, and who doesn't like toys? It'll be a few more weeks, but eventually i'll need some <STRIKE>guinea pigs</STRIKE> beta testers.
PM me if you're interested. :bounce3:SantaMonica
Well-known member
Congrats. My first patent took 5 years to the day, if you include the provisional filing date.
Flippers4pups
Home made abyss
Make it controller ready and your golden!
I think I can work around this, using the laser cutter to cut the details and then simply cleaning up the flame polished edges that will be glued using the mill. That will still give the nice flame polished edge for the exposed cuts, and it's easier to clean up straight lines with the mill than make the complex cuts needed for the rest of the mechanical of it.
Also, I think I'm going to start with black acrylic, which from what I've read should be fine with laser cutting and gluing. If there are any micro cracks from the glue up of a flame polished edge, they won't be visible with the black or affect the structure. It also shields the nori from the tank lights.
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