Sacohen
New member
Why wouldn't it?
automatic water change
- Thread starter DRThompson
- Start date
Why wouldn't it?
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Last edited:
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
From the article:
How to Perform Water Changes
There are many ways to perform water changes, and some of these are outlined below.
Large batch water changes: These changes are what most aquarists think of as water changes - remove some aquarium water and replace it with new water. Reef aquarists often talk of changing 10-30% per month this way. These changes can be completely manual, using buckets and siphons. They can also be partially or almost completely automated. Some systems allow aquarists to open and close appropriate valves (or turn on appropriate pumps), and pumps take care of the actual removal and addition of water.
In doing batch changes, aquarists should consider the changes in the water parameters that will result, and be sure they do not excessively stress organisms. Differences in salinity and temperature are most likely to be significant, and the larger the change, the more stressful it can become for the aquarium's inhabitants. If there is substantial ammonia in the new water, as there may be in artificial salt water or possibly in natural seawater that has been stored for a while, that can also be stressful. Obviously, any organisms that become exposed to the air can also be greatly stressed. Differences in other water parameters are less likely, in my opinion, to be particularly stressful during water changes, with the possible exception of certain trace elements which may be more toxic in raw artificial seawater when not bound to organics than after they have had a chance to become bound in the aquarium or in natural seawater. The normally encountered differences in calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, nitrate, phosphate, silica, pH, etc., are unlikely to unduly stress organisms during water changes up to 30-50% using natural seawater or aerated artificial seawater, in my opinion.
Small batch water changes: These changes are similar to the large changes above, but are much smaller and are done more frequently. Daily changes of 0.25% to 2%, for example, can be used. One could also do a series of consecutive small water changes on the same day. This method ensures that organisms near the top of the aquarium are not exposed to the air, and that water parameter shifts are less sudden. These types of changes can be done in a variety of ways, such as by removing water via a skimmer and replacing it once a day, or by simply taking out an amount (such as a half gallon) and replacing it once a day (automatically or manually). While lots of smaller changes (say, 30 changes of 1% each) are slightly less efficient than one larger one (30% in a single batch), the difference is small (30 changes of 1% each exactly matches one 26% batch water change), and consequently other factors of convenience or stress on organisms may be more important.
In doing batch water changes of 2% or less, aquarists need not particularly worry about the changes in the water parameters that will result, as long as the new water is of reasonable quality. For example, a 1% change with new water at 55°F from a basement reservoir will change the aquarium temperature only from 81°F to 80.74°F. Differences in salinity are also unlikely to be significant.
Continuous water changes: Continuous water changes, despite their name, are not necessarily performed every minute of every day. The distinguishing feature of these changes is that water is added at the same time that it is removed. The actual rate of addition can be high or low. Reef aquarists (myself included) most often perform these types of water changes with two matched pumps, one that removes the old water and one that adds the new water. Often these pumps are part of the same mechanism (such as two sets of tubing on a peristaltic pump or two heads on a diaphragm pump), but that is not a requirement. I use a dual head diaphragm pump capable of a maximum of 30 gallons per day for each head (a Reef Filler pump from Champion Lighting). In my setup, once I have a 44-gallon trash can full of new salt water, all I do to perform a 44 gallon or smaller water change is plug in the pump. The wastewater is sent down the drain. Sometimes I change 44 gallons in one shot, taking about a day and a half. Sometimes I pump for a few hours at a time, and then wait for a few days.
These changes are slightly less efficient than single batch water changes of the same total volume. A continuous water change of 30% exactly matches one batch 26% water change. As with very small batch water changes, these have the advantage of neither stressing the organisms (assuming the change is done reasonably slowly), nor altering the water level in the aquarium. The ease of doing such changes automatically also makes it far more likely that busy or lazy aquarists will actually do them.
Conclusion
Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.
Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.
How to Perform Water Changes
There are many ways to perform water changes, and some of these are outlined below.
Large batch water changes: These changes are what most aquarists think of as water changes - remove some aquarium water and replace it with new water. Reef aquarists often talk of changing 10-30% per month this way. These changes can be completely manual, using buckets and siphons. They can also be partially or almost completely automated. Some systems allow aquarists to open and close appropriate valves (or turn on appropriate pumps), and pumps take care of the actual removal and addition of water.
In doing batch changes, aquarists should consider the changes in the water parameters that will result, and be sure they do not excessively stress organisms. Differences in salinity and temperature are most likely to be significant, and the larger the change, the more stressful it can become for the aquarium's inhabitants. If there is substantial ammonia in the new water, as there may be in artificial salt water or possibly in natural seawater that has been stored for a while, that can also be stressful. Obviously, any organisms that become exposed to the air can also be greatly stressed. Differences in other water parameters are less likely, in my opinion, to be particularly stressful during water changes, with the possible exception of certain trace elements which may be more toxic in raw artificial seawater when not bound to organics than after they have had a chance to become bound in the aquarium or in natural seawater. The normally encountered differences in calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, nitrate, phosphate, silica, pH, etc., are unlikely to unduly stress organisms during water changes up to 30-50% using natural seawater or aerated artificial seawater, in my opinion.
Small batch water changes: These changes are similar to the large changes above, but are much smaller and are done more frequently. Daily changes of 0.25% to 2%, for example, can be used. One could also do a series of consecutive small water changes on the same day. This method ensures that organisms near the top of the aquarium are not exposed to the air, and that water parameter shifts are less sudden. These types of changes can be done in a variety of ways, such as by removing water via a skimmer and replacing it once a day, or by simply taking out an amount (such as a half gallon) and replacing it once a day (automatically or manually). While lots of smaller changes (say, 30 changes of 1% each) are slightly less efficient than one larger one (30% in a single batch), the difference is small (30 changes of 1% each exactly matches one 26% batch water change), and consequently other factors of convenience or stress on organisms may be more important.
In doing batch water changes of 2% or less, aquarists need not particularly worry about the changes in the water parameters that will result, as long as the new water is of reasonable quality. For example, a 1% change with new water at 55°F from a basement reservoir will change the aquarium temperature only from 81°F to 80.74°F. Differences in salinity are also unlikely to be significant.
Continuous water changes: Continuous water changes, despite their name, are not necessarily performed every minute of every day. The distinguishing feature of these changes is that water is added at the same time that it is removed. The actual rate of addition can be high or low. Reef aquarists (myself included) most often perform these types of water changes with two matched pumps, one that removes the old water and one that adds the new water. Often these pumps are part of the same mechanism (such as two sets of tubing on a peristaltic pump or two heads on a diaphragm pump), but that is not a requirement. I use a dual head diaphragm pump capable of a maximum of 30 gallons per day for each head (a Reef Filler pump from Champion Lighting). In my setup, once I have a 44-gallon trash can full of new salt water, all I do to perform a 44 gallon or smaller water change is plug in the pump. The wastewater is sent down the drain. Sometimes I change 44 gallons in one shot, taking about a day and a half. Sometimes I pump for a few hours at a time, and then wait for a few days.
These changes are slightly less efficient than single batch water changes of the same total volume. A continuous water change of 30% exactly matches one batch 26% water change. As with very small batch water changes, these have the advantage of neither stressing the organisms (assuming the change is done reasonably slowly), nor altering the water level in the aquarium. The ease of doing such changes automatically also makes it far more likely that busy or lazy aquarists will actually do them.
Conclusion
Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.
Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.
lighthouze08
New member
i have a masterflex that i use for feeding the calcium reactor. it has been running 24 hrs/day 365 days a year nonstop for over a year, that's why i decided to get another one for water change. These thing are built like a tank, i checked the tubing on it after 6 months and it looked fine, i replaced it anyway for safety reason but i bet you could go a year on it without replacing.
mrx66699
New member
Have a 1500gal container that we share with NSW and it has a circulation pump that runs periodically and air stone that runs 247 .....thats before it gets to his house
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
I have a separate 55gal container below it for mixing. I really should put a small pump in the water change barrel to keep things circulated though. As Mrx mentioned I currently use natural seawater.
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
One Week update
One Week update
Well, it's been a week since I started the automatic water change-AWC. The dual head stenner pump has changed out about 14gal total. Other than checking salinity I havnt really done anything. My salinity has held at 1.026 SG (digital refractometer). However, I've noticed a drop in ALK. The NSW i'm using for the water changes has low alk; i've had to bump up my alk dosing a little to compensate. Other than actually feeding the 1/4" tubing thru my attic it's been a pretty easy project. I look forward to NOT having to do water changes in the future! :bounce1:
ATO NOW IN GARAGE:
On another note, I bought a single-head stenner pump on ebay and set it up as my ATO from the garage. This was planned for; I ran one extra 1/4" tubing line when I was setting up the water change system. I was going to plumb it directly to my R/O storage barrel but decided I wanted to keep dosing kalk in my ATO. I ended up moving the ATO 10gal container from the closet behind my stand to the garage. Now I'm not longer invading the closet (wife likes that)
and I dont have to carry buckets from my garage to the closet to refill the ATO container.
One Week update
Well, it's been a week since I started the automatic water change-AWC. The dual head stenner pump has changed out about 14gal total. Other than checking salinity I havnt really done anything. My salinity has held at 1.026 SG (digital refractometer). However, I've noticed a drop in ALK. The NSW i'm using for the water changes has low alk; i've had to bump up my alk dosing a little to compensate. Other than actually feeding the 1/4" tubing thru my attic it's been a pretty easy project. I look forward to NOT having to do water changes in the future! :bounce1:
ATO NOW IN GARAGE:
On another note, I bought a single-head stenner pump on ebay and set it up as my ATO from the garage. This was planned for; I ran one extra 1/4" tubing line when I was setting up the water change system. I was going to plumb it directly to my R/O storage barrel but decided I wanted to keep dosing kalk in my ATO. I ended up moving the ATO 10gal container from the closet behind my stand to the garage. Now I'm not longer invading the closet (wife likes that)
and I dont have to carry buckets from my garage to the closet to refill the ATO container.
Last edited:
jonnyu
New member
Question what do you think of using Brs 50mil ATO doser for this? I was thinking about using it with float switches as a backup. I would want to do 2 gallon a day water change.
Float switch in sump that apex uses for ATO to keep water level right. Then have apex turn off the ATO then pump 1 gallon out then refill fill using the float switch as backup. Then system off then ATO back to normal. The water storage tank for me is 6 ft away at most. Is there a problem you all see with that type of setup? Could you use a salinity probe to have a extra back up safety feature?
Float switch in sump that apex uses for ATO to keep water level right. Then have apex turn off the ATO then pump 1 gallon out then refill fill using the float switch as backup. Then system off then ATO back to normal. The water storage tank for me is 6 ft away at most. Is there a problem you all see with that type of setup? Could you use a salinity probe to have a extra back up safety feature?
mrx66699
New member
Johnny the problem comes when using different pumps at different locations the calibration needs to be exact or eventually you end up getting more or less in one area (new water coming in or old water going out)
as long as you keep an eye on it you can manually adjust it from time to time and keep an eye on your ato as if the pump taking salt water out of your system starts slowly taking more out then the ato will slowly be putting more RO in lowering salinity over time
as long as you keep an eye on it you can manually adjust it from time to time and keep an eye on your ato as if the pump taking salt water out of your system starts slowly taking more out then the ato will slowly be putting more RO in lowering salinity over time
Yeah had the issue of pumps changing over time. Went with the Genesis system and it works like a charm. I'm a big fan of small daily water changes. I change 40 gals a week in a system with a volume of 375 gals. Tank has never looked better.
Joe
jonnyu
New member
I know I wish
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
The genesis renew system would do exactly what you are thinking. However, the price is $500-600 retail for a new unit. I doubt you will find one used.
The Liter meter 3 is an alternate. These pumps would have to be calibrated periodically to ensure the same volume is being removed/replaced. Retail on this set up (main unit plus a 2nd pump) would be $400. You might be able to find one of these used though.
A dual head stenner pump is currently $273 from lockewell dot com. This would give you exact volumes for remove/replace. This is my setup. Again, these pumps are noisy, I would not want this pump inside my house. A masterflex/cole parmer dual head pump would do the same job; you can get them used on ebay for $200-$500. (see my earlier posts on these)
Lastly, I guess you could "rig" something up using a lot of float switches, a couple of pumps, and your apex. This would never give you exact volumes for remove/replace and would require constant tweaking (not twerking
You would inevitably get a shift in your salinity which you would have to correct from time to time.
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DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
sent you a pm......sold by lockewell dot com not sure if I can post link
http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_6_30_33&products_id=160
Dashylock
New member
The masterflex/cole-parmer pumps are actually used in the semiconductor industry as well. We replace these pumps with our own flow controller due to various reasons revolving around the accuracy of the peristaltic pump, as well as required PM and potential for causing scraped wafers due to the pump tubings particle generation, which enters the lines and causes defects on the wafer.
For aquarium/hobbyist use these are good pumps but for critical applications that require high accuracy and repeatability they are not the best option.
