B-ionic in SPS coral systems

[Herbie]

Herbie, if you can find the 5 gallon version it will be cheaper in the long run than buying the 1 gallon jugs of B-Ionic. They should be around $80 plus shipping if you order online. You just need to add RODI to it and mix it very well. I fill it up and roll the bucket down a hill a few times(seriously much easier than mixing it yourself). That one setup should last you about a year on a 60 thats decently stocked with SPS, I have a 57 rimless and its not packed with SPS but decent and I am about 14 months in on this set of buckets

Thanks Matt,
I ordered the 1 gallon sizes as a trial run. If everything works out, I will order the 5 gal. sizes from Premium Aquatics..........there about the only ones who have the 5 gal. size. I can use the 1 gallon jugs from now on too. I needed to order 2 drews dosers from BRS, so I just got the b-ionic gallons from them to start with.
Eventually, if it all works out on the 60 display tank, I will also add a 2-part system to my frag tank, and ditch the kalk on that tank too. Just need to buy 2 more dosers as I already have RKL's on both tanks. Might need another PC4. I will def. buy the 5 gallon sizes if I am using b-ionic on both systems.........if its gets to be too much, I will switch to Randys mix.

Thanks,
Herbie

 

[Mark]

So the CO2 cylinder went empty last week. I decided to give fulltime dosing a try. I started with a small bottle of C-Balance while the 4 gallon buckets of ESV were still in the mail.

Anyway, I wasn't dosing enough and found my alk down to 3.5! Yikes. So I calculated how much to add and dripped around 700ml in in slowly so that my pH didn't spike above 8.4.

Now, I'm home from work and the skimmer is going nuts. It's foaming over even with the exit pipe wide open.... Similar to when you use too much epoxy with corals.

Is this an expected reaction from adding soo much 2-part? pH was back to normal soon after dosing, and corals look fine today.

 

[MammothReefer]

I would have gone for a big water change to bring your alk back up into range then dosed from there. Trying to raise your ALK up from 3.5 in one day is a tall order. I can't say if that's normal or not my skimmer is set to skim based on how it reacts to my tank with my dosing regimen so I wouldn't know how it would behave if I wasn't dosing. I think it will be anybody’s guess as to why your skimming is going nuts could it be from something freaking out with the ALK swings? Could it be from adding 700ml in a short time? I haven't used C-Balance so I don't know if it's something that is unique to that product or reaction to something else.

 

[Mark]

Thanks, I guess all I can do is wait it out.

 

[Peter Eichler]

In my situation the money savings would be dramatic. I would be dosing about 1 gallon of DIY 2 part every 10 days or a gallon of B Ionic every 17 days. That is several hundred dollars per year, to sink into this hobby in other areas.:fun2:



Randy actually ran tests on dow flake himself. The MSDS can not be used to determine if a product is reef safe. It doesn't have to list many contaminants that could be present in large enough concentrations to cause problems.

Iirc he also tested ESV calcium chloride, which was shockingly similar results wise to either Dow flake or peladow.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Well after much deliberation, I am going to start with the B-ionic. I will monitor my usage and if it gets to be more cost effective, I will switch to Randy's 2-part mix.
Just ordered 2 Drews dosers and gallon jugs of B-ionic from BRS. I will control the dosers via my RKL (had to add another PC4). I will start with the recommended 1 ml per 4 gallons, and adjust from there. This will be a trial run in my 60 cube to see if switching over from Kalk will be beneficial.

Thanks for the help !

Herbie

There is no question what is most cost effective. Even the biggest B ionic proponents here can't argue the fact that homemade 2 part is considerably cheaper.

 

[Herbie]

There is no question what is most cost effective. Even the biggest B ionic proponents here can't argue the fact that homemade 2 part is considerably cheaper.

Peter, agreed on the cost differences. Homemade 2 part is clearly cheaper ........I think some of the debate is if its really exactly the same as the b-ionic too. Also there is the PITA factor. Someone with smaller tanks, and much less Cal / alk usage may not want to bother with mixing up the 2-part. Its kind of a cost savings vs. ease of use thing.
If the cost of my use of 2-part exceeds what I feel is worth my time to mix up homemade 2 part, I will go the homemade 2-part route. My tanks are small, so I dont mind going with a commercially made product.

Herbie

 

[matt888]

I used Bionic for a few yrs on my 30g sps tank and then moved up to a 210g and have alot of space to fill again with sps. I switched over to BRS 2-part a few weeks back and have seen slightly better growth and essentially the same dosing requirements. We'll see what happens over more time, but this will be much cheaper!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

quite honestly....

quite honestly....

if I HAD to purchase B-ionic in order to maintain dKH and calcium levels in my reef aquarium I couldn't afford it.

I would have quit 10 years ago.

 

[MammothReefer]

Peter, agreed on the cost differences. Homemade 2 part is clearly cheaper ........I think some of the debate is if its really exactly the same as the b-ionic too. Also there is the PITA factor. Someone with smaller tanks, and much less Cal / alk usage may not want to bother with mixing up the 2-part. Its kind of a cost savings vs. ease of use thing.
If the cost of my use of 2-part exceeds what I feel is worth my time to mix up homemade 2 part, I will go the homemade 2-part route. My tanks are small, so I dont mind going with a commercially made product.

Herbie

Mixing 2 part is a quick and easy process once you do it a few times. Fill up your jug 3/4 the way. add in 2 cups or 2.5 cups depending on (alk/calc) top off shake and let it sit. Takes me maybe 5 mins. The only thing that is sort of a pita is mag because it all junks together and you have to add something like 7+ cups mag however is made very infrequently when compared to alk/calc.

 

[Mark]

I'm going with B-Ionic for round 1. I have run a Geo calcium reactor of some iteration or another for 13 years. And if you're in the market for a reactor, I highly recommend his work. The reverse flow never clogs, the eheim recirc is bombproof and quiet, and it's easy to refill.

I keep hitting a wall with algae though. My rock is old, and there's certainly some old tank syndrome theories going on in my head. One thing I have noticed, is that tanks with higher pH tend to have less problems with algae. Might not be the pH per say, but perhaps the CO2 affiliated with the low pH. I also wonder about phosphates and the likes.
My phosphates read non-existent, but if there's red turf algae then there's certainly some in the rocks or system.

I debated adding a kalk reactor to tackle pH and then increasing water changes for better phosphate management. But in the end, I liked the simplicity of a doser. So I'm giving it a shot.

I'm going to see how fast I burn through a 4 gallon bucket of B-Ionic. If it lasts me 9 months, I will probably stick with it. If it depletes faster, I'll consider BRS. And if I notice no improvement in the tank, corals, or minute algae turfs... Well the Geo is going back online then.

Experimentation is fun!

 

[trueblackpercula]

Well this is how I look at it, 1 US gallon is 3785.411 milliliters so if you dose 15 ml a day so I should be good for about 250 days per gallon if I stay at that rate. That's about 17.50 per gallon and I have no worries.

 

[trueblackpercula]

if I HAD to purchase B-ionic in order to maintain dKH and calcium levels in my reef aquarium I couldn't afford it.

I would have quit 10 years ago.

Now that would be a sin as your tank is very inspirational to me and I am sure a lot others. I see why you make your own 2 part because you need so much of it.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks

thanks

I remember back when B-ionic first came out. I used it for years along with kalkwasser. I was measuring daily dosages in ml's and dosing with a syringe or by the cap :lol:

 

[MammothReefer]

By the cap for me, didn't test nearly as much as I needed to either but my Xenia did grow like a champ.

 

[Allmost]

lol I still have a part of my hardwood burned out, cause of all the spilling I used to do measuring it in the cap and dosing it and then running off to work ... lol

 

[trueblackpercula]

That's funny I to remember using the cap method.....then came along the dosing pump lol

 

[CaptiveReef]

Calcium Reactor

Calcium Reactor

I'm going with B-Ionic for round 1. I have run a Geo calcium reactor of some iteration or another for 13 years. And if you're in the market for a reactor, I highly recommend his work. The reverse flow never clogs, the eheim recirc is bombproof and quiet, and it's easy to refill.

I keep hitting a wall with algae though. My rock is old, and there's certainly some old tank syndrome theories going on in my head. One thing I have noticed, is that tanks with higher pH tend to have less problems with algae. Might not be the pH per say, but perhaps the CO2 affiliated with the low pH. I also wonder about phosphates and the likes.
My phosphates read non-existent, but if there's red turf algae then there's certainly some in the rocks or system.

I debated adding a kalk reactor to tackle pH and then increasing water changes for better phosphate management. But in the end, I liked the simplicity of a doser. So I'm giving it a shot.

I'm going to see how fast I burn through a 4 gallon bucket of B-Ionic. If it lasts me 9 months, I will probably stick with it. If it depletes faster, I'll consider BRS. And if I notice no improvement in the tank, corals, or minute algae turfs... Well the Geo is going back online then.

Experimentation is fun!

Calcium Reactors work but they produce phosphate, Here is an article on it.
You are here: Home "º Volume II "º April 2003 "º Short Take: Calcium Reactor Substrate -- Phosphate Levels
Info
Short Take: Calcium Reactor Substrate -- Phosphate Levels
By Greg Hiller
How important is the level of phosphate in your calcium reactor substrate?
0 CommentsContents
1.Testing methodology
2.Results
1.A. ARM Reactor Substrate
2.B. Koralith Reactor Substrate
3.C. Locally collect limestone
4.D. Reagent Controls
3.Conclusions and Discussion
4.Other Notes
5.Acknowledgments
6.References
In an endeavor to save a few dollars in this very expensive hobby, several years back I tested some alternative calcium reactor substrates 1 to determine their elemental profiles using an analytical technique known as inductively coupled plasma. Prior to my work, Craig Bingman also tested some calcium reactor substrates 2 in a similar fashion. In a nutshell, from a phosphorus standpoint Dr. Bingman's experiments suggested that Super Calc Gold (which from what I can tell is no longer commercially available) had about twice the concentration of phosphate as Koralith (sometimes also called Hydro-Carbonate). In my experiments I found that a locally quarried limestone had phosphate levels several fold higher than Koralith, but still about 40% lower than a crushed coral aragonite that I'd been using in my calcium reactors at the time.

Since the time of my experiments, a new calcium reactor substrate called ARM (aragonite reactor media) has been marketed by CaribSea. CaribSea was recently claiming in advertisements in some of the aquarium literature3 that according to testing conducted by an independent lab, the phosphate content of ARM was less than 1/500th of that in Koralith medium. As folks in the sciences know, exceptional claims demand exceptional experimental proof. I was a bit skeptical to say the least. In looking at ARM even with the naked eye, it is clear that it is made up of pulverized corals, clam and snail shells, and other naturally occurring calcium carbonate materials of marine origin, and like all such materials significant quantities of phosphate would have to be present as they are in all life forms.

Hope this helps.
CaptiveReef

 

[scottbeyer101]

I know this is an old thread but what a great read. I've been dosing ESV 2 part for 6 years across various (and growing tank sizes and SPS populations. All good.

I was looking for an answer to this question though that I did not find:
Anyone experience SETTLING of the ALK solution while in the dosing tank? Mine is only 1000ml. I do stir, but infrequently. I have not really "seen" separation, but my LFS guy swears it is happening, and I sometimes have to catch-up on my ALK levels.