Bean animal experts needed.

[mrx66699]

I just presented everything in a condensed easy to read and follow format, not like the dissertation you posted

Reading is paramount.....these information post were per bean

I recomended.....

2nd toggle the pump back slightly to a level that allows the DT to remain at a constant level without raising too fast while making adjustments on the gate valves to desired levels (sweet spot) for the full syphon to kick in and then adjusting the secondary gate valve and main to run desired levels of input vs output

If you thought my advise was too high a reading level for you... sorry about that lol

 

[rovster]

I like cliff notes. They got me through high school....:wildone:

 

[firemedix911]

Well the whole idea of having this set up was to be able to handle the hammerhead flow. If the issue is that the return pump is too much for the set up then it is an issue of the overflow not being efficient enough for the pump. So there goes my plans. I will just change the impeller on the pump to the barracuda. Again I really expected the system to be ran by the hammerhead and return pump should've never been the issue. Does anyone here have an idea of the max flow a 1.5" bulkhead can flow? The other solution would be to add another 1.5" BH. I really wanna run the hammerhead and not the barracuda.

 

[mrx66699]

Flow rates are posted above. Have you used the formula and calculated for your setup? Have you setup the recommended fixes for your system? When you do lets see the results for the first steps of recommendations before moving to another step.

 

[jonnyu]

Well overflow really can't Handle the flow. It definitely has some design flaws. I went to take a look at it a few hours ago and the major design flaw is the (2) 1.5 bulkheads connecting coast to coast box to the back box. If it had 3 1.5 or even better 4 bulkheads going through the c2c it would work great and handle all the flow. I think the real fix would be drill 2 more 1.5 bulkheads and remake the back box. This would make it work like a champ. We where able to get it working and make it silent but we had to dial back pump 30%. This was even with uv running about 1000gph. Albert if you want it right I would really look into getting tank drilled.

 

[mrx66699]

Jonny can we answer the questions above? Has he figured out his flow per formulas and has he raised the standpipes? Interested to see the correct actual data here before just taking shots in the dark about what might or might not be corrections or even issues. Im sure we all would rather not see him take drastic steps that may or may not be needed.

 

[jonnyu]

Yes. Stand pipes not the issue. I was able to adjust and make it silent but doing so raises the level of tank because you are slowing the flow through the bulkheads going from one box to the next. When tank level rises it goes over the overflow a little to high over the C2C. Then your not getting a good surface skim. You need to have only 1" or less of water height over the overflow. So get a good surface skim. The only way to do that is 1. lower flow going through the tank or 2. Drill another bulk head through the tank. This way tank can drain to the back box faster thus lowering water level in the tank.

 

[firemedix911]

Here's the problem with that table. It is designed to calculate flow thru a bulkhead in a vertical system where the water coming out of the bulkheads go completely into full syphon. My tank has 5 bulkheads. 3 for vertical flow(read standpipes) and 2 for horizontal, let's call it transfer of water from inside tank to outside thank. So gravity or length of drop has no play in the math here. It's purely a matter of how much water can the 1.5" bulkhead handle. Using the smallest drop on that table(bc there's no drop on this 2 bulkheads.) the most flow will be less than 2000gph. Well below the 5500 GPH capacity of my pump. That explains why it's imposible to run the pump full blast without the water level going well over an inch over the inside overflow box.

 

[mrx66699]

Ok just saw you said below 2000 ....Are we sure your running a full syphon through the main? Does it drain all the water in the box and start sucking in air without being dialed back a little? Can you put up a picture of the newly positioned stand pipes with water level in conjunction with the bulkheads?

Here is the flow formula for water through pipe which would be your bulk head

GPM = 0.0408 x Pipe Diameter inches2 x Feet / minute water velocity

Velocity in feet per second
= 0.408 x USGPM = ...............................32 x GPM
(diameter of pipe in inches)squared=......... pipe area

 

[jonnyu]

Yes it does drain. I was able to use one drain pipe in the outer box with the gate valve create a full siphon and keep out box consistent. The problem is the two bulkheads going through the tank. It needs at least one more bulkhead. At the end of the day one box needs to made over again. Either inside one or outside one and tank needs to be drilled. Gfo and carbon reactors will only use 200 gph. Those bulkheads are not keeping up even 1000gph going thru uv and being return to the sump. So really I think your math is off by a lot. A system either works or does not. If the back box is empty and the diplay tank is overflowing it's a clear to see the bottle neck the bad design of only two bulkheads mounted horizontally.

 

[mrx66699]

I didn't do the math its not my setup....that's why i provided the formulas for you ......same c2c as in my setup and I'm dropping over 7000gph so if we go by your math of not exactly working it out and just saying it works or it doesn't then we know there is no issue with the c2c and its the same exact setup that was running on bills 300 tank so we again will go by your analysis of it just works or it doesn't and we can then say the design works and something is configured incorrectly...Can we see those pics of how its setup? Also are the elbows on the top of the standpipes restricting flow out of the bulkheads? Another question here also. If we are estimating the system to be around 300gal total water volume and we went on a 6-10 times recommended rate of flipping the system filtration wise......we should be shooting for around 3000gph at the very top end am I correct here....so if we went with your math of saying you got things running smoothly without any noise and the pump dialed back 30% thats 3850gph going through the system without taking into account loss with head pressure now take that into account and it should be very close to the top end of 10 times per hour ...why are we shooting for flipping this system over 10 times an hour?

 

[jonnyu]

If remember your tank has 4 2" bulkheads not 2 1.5" and bills tank was sold to jurg and that tank did not have a hammerhead running at full blast.
Look it's not a problem of the external box. A bulkhead going thru a tank horizontally will NEVER have a siphon.
Siphon
EditWatch this page
This article is about the device. For the carbonation tool, see soda siphon.

Siphon principle

A siphon used for homebrewing beer
The word siphon (from Ancient Greek: σίφων "pipe, tube", also called syphon) is used to refer to a wide variety of devices that involve the flow of liquids through tubes, see siphon terminology. By definition the word refers specifically to a tube in an inverted 'U' shape which causes a liquid to flow upward above the surface of a reservoir, with no pump but powered by the fall of the liquid as it flows down the tube under the pull of gravity, and discharging at a level lower than the surface of the reservoir whence it came. Note that while the siphon intake tube must be below the surface of the liquid in the higher reservoir, it need not touch the liquid in the lower reservoir and indeed there need not be a lower reservoir; a siphon can discharge into mid-air so long as the exit is below the surface of the upper reservoir.

I don't know the whole story behind the overflow but I do know it will never work. The tank needs another bulkhead drilled. And c2c rebuilt to accommodate bean animal design. Or the external box needs to be redisgned to accommodate 4 bulkheads going from c2c to external box.

 

[jonnyu]

For turnover rate it's up to him what he wants. The more the better I would say. He is looking to do a full blown sps tank so flow is key.

 

[AquamanE]

For turnover rate it's up to him what he wants. The more the better I would say. He is looking to do a full blown sps tank so flow is key.

I know nothing about the "engineering" lingo you guys are using regarding gph in 3 1.5", vs 2 2" pipes. But I can say a 220G does not need 5000G going through the sump, EVEN for a full blown SPS tank.

Yes flow is key with SPS, but the required flow is random flow that is usually best done with in tank devices, ie power heads, pumps etc.... As a facter of fact some say its detrimental since less actual "new" water gets into skimmer and such. I dont know that agree with that, but that is one train of though.

I runn a reeflo snapper through my 200 with no issues. Just my $0.02.

Edit- BTW- I run it with 1 1.5 drain (herbie I think), and 1 1.5 emergency drain that rarely activates.,

 

[jonnyu]

Well with head pressure and all it overflow is not handling the 4000 gph. Tank is 330 if I remember. It has 4 1" outlets from ocean motion.

 

[mrx66699]

If remember your tank has 4 2" bulkheads not 2 1.5"

Incorrect just have 1.5s into 2 2in pipes

For turnover rate it's up to him what he wants. The more the better I would say. He is looking to do a full blown sps tank so flow is key.

Don't confuse flow with turnover rate....Two separate things and you do reach a limit where processing efficiency starts to degrade becoming inefficient and not any more or less useful. Your skimmer is only going to process so much volume. Once your at peak level for that, running water through the system is just a waste of electricity....How well your skimmer works is related to circulation thru the skimmer (as opposed to the sump) and the air volume that you add.

When we talk about the fuge section as per RHF... A filtration system which focuses on macroalgae need not have much turnover.

Flow inside a Reef Tank should come from multiple sources rather than one concentrated source. Flow should be focused to inside the aquarium rather than from return pumps as this is where the majority of filtration is coming from not the inverse.

Its about a 308gal DT according to the tank volume calculator on the home page.

Any pics of the plumbing in the back?

Also the DT is looking very sweet....hang in there Alberto we will get it figured out and everything up and running....Jonny is very good with manufacturing and I will give as much assistance as possible if we need to redo anything. Im sure we have the resources between the two of us..

 

[AquamanE]

Definitely sweet looking tank and return plumbing. What is the manifold in the back area of the center left brace for?

Who built the tank?

 

[props4you]

Wondering the same ^^^^^

 

[jonnyu]

Definitely sweet looking tank and return plumbing. What is the manifold in the back area of the center left brace for?

Who built the tank?

That is a siphon break. It's a reverse check valve. This allows loc line to be fully submerged and not worry about siphoning

Wondering the same ^^^^^

 

[mrx66699]

That is a siphon break. It's a reverse check valve. This allows loc line to be fully submerged and not worry about siphoning

Is this just for ???.......I run 8 loc line inputs and they are submerged at least 7in each and no back syphon. ...just put a small 1\8 hole .5 below water level and call it a day...sump was also made to handle any volume of water draining up to 3x96x36 .....only thing you have to be consious of is if you move the loc line and twist the piece that is purged and cover up the syphon break valve you made i can say that but then another of the 8 will kick in and beeak syphon