Beckett vs. Needlewheel skimmers

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375271#post8375271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
So, I wanted to get a true measurement of the SCFH on the beckett and took out the 1/4" adapter, wrapped some tape around the 3/8" hose and threaded that into the flow meter. I'll let the pic speak for itself. GO BECKETT!!!!

AHHHH WOW. Come on brother wheres the new thread for this. Thats sucker SCREAMING!!!!! I need more info sherm. what size are the bubbles.

 

[NoSchwag]

FWIW my air is cranked wayyyyyy down (2 out of 11 turns on a gate valve) for wet skimming.

 

[sherm71tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375468#post8375468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
AHHHH WOW. Come on brother wheres the new thread for this. Thats sucker SCREAMING!!!!! I need more info sherm. what size are the bubbles.

There will be no new thread. I've been building skimmers for years and built Beckett and Mazzei commercially for a while. I just didn't have time for it anymore. I honestly can't say what the bubble size is cause I can't see the outlet/diffuser in the skimmer because it is surrounded by foam. There is a 10" x 6" chamber full of solid foam. I am sure there are some that are larger than others with that much air vloume.

So anyway, where is the 100+ SCFH NW skimmer at?

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375338#post8375338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
Think about it, which method is more effective at getting particles BEFORE they break down.. ...Reticulating the same water over and over again OR skimming a lot of different water.

My money is on getting as much particle filled water thru the skimmer as possible, as quick as possible ala becket..

The reason why recirc skimmers SEEM to work better, is because it's alowing crap to break down in the tank while it skims the same water over and over again. Think of it like fighting an uphill battle. Ask people with slow flow thru sump how good their skimmers work. There is a whole 123123908 page thread of people saying how much better their skimmers work.

The name of the game, IMO, is cleaning as much water as possible, as quick as possible.

Good valid point, and it a good theory and could be true

EXCEPT for the FACT that when you run both recirc and single pass (of any skimmer) AT the same time on the same tank. the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.
You have to be able to explain this to support your argument. The high flow crowd keeps dancing around it.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375293#post8375293 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
That farely brown liquid is dissolved waste that your skimmer failed to get the first time around.

My skimmate is green with phyto.

Like this?

My skimmer uses 120W, no beckett, no needle wheel, gravity fed with 8 air stones.

You can see the buld pictures on my skimmer page.

It's not pretty but it does an awesome job on my 1,200g system and the only power required is the Alita 100.

So my dear fools, there are many ways to skim a tank, and some are decidedly more electrically efficient than others.

 

[jnarowe]

Oh yeah, and DIY RULES!!!

 

[evilpsych]

good grief! i cant believe I just read all that..

Here's a thought..

Why doesn't one of our more well-funded members, conduct an experiment.

Take two skimmers, (non-recirc) one beckett, and one NW, that are sized for the same sized tank (heck, use the same brand/model/size of pump on each), and then run the water return from one as the water input to the other, and see which one catches more stuff that the other missed. Doesn't matter which one is first, but would seem to be a pretty good measure of which design is better. Surely someone can do this fairly readily on this board that has such a HIGH number of visitors at any given time..

Anyway.. my $0.02, I expect change back.. :bum:

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375729#post8375729 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
Good valid point, and it a good theory and could be true

EXCEPT for the FACT that when you run both recirc and single pass (of any skimmer) AT the same time on the same tank. the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.
You have to be able to explain this to support your argument. The high flow crowd keeps dancing around it.

Can you show me a link, I'd like to check it out.

 

[sherm71tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375847#post8375847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Like this?

My skimmer uses 120W, no beckett, no needle wheel, gravity fed with 8 air stones.

You can see the buld pictures on my skimmer page.

It's not pretty but it does an awesome job on my 1,200g system and the only power required is the Alita 100.

So my dear fools, there are many ways to skim a tank, and some are decidedly more electrically efficient than others.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!! I love it!!! :beer:

 

[NoSchwag]

Double Post

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375687#post8375687 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
There will be no new thread. I've been building skimmers for years and built Beckett and Mazzei commercially for a while. I just didn't have time for it anymore. I honestly can't say what the bubble size is cause I can't see the outlet/diffuser in the skimmer because it is surrounded by foam. There is a 10" x 6" chamber full of solid foam. I am sure there are some that are larger than others with that much air vloume.

So anyway, where is the 100+ SCFH NW skimmer at?

90 scfh 54 - 60 watts. not quiet 100 scfh
http://www.it-kontaktmanagement.de/bm_action.swf

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375925#post8375925 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
Can you show me a link, I'd like to check it out.

Humm, you called me on it and i have no link, ill see what i can find.

 

[JC VT]

the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.

Roland, we've already discussed how wet foam is better than dry "nasty" foam.

the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.

You have to be able to explain this to support your argument. The high flow crowd keeps dancing around it.

No one's danced around this. I've laid out a pretty clear argument that wet skimmate and high turnover is the best skimming for a clean reef tank. So has NoSchwag and others.

 

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8375873#post8375873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by evilpsych
good grief! i cant believe I just read all that..

Here's a thought..

Why doesn't one of our more well-funded members, conduct an experiment.

Take two skimmers, (non-recirc) one beckett, and one NW, that are sized for the same sized tank (heck, use the same brand/model/size of pump on each), and then run the water return from one as the water input to the other, and see which one catches more stuff that the other missed. Doesn't matter which one is first, but would seem to be a pretty good measure of which design is better. Surely someone can do this fairly readily on this board that has such a HIGH number of visitors at any given time..

Anyway.. my $0.02, I expect change back.. :bum:

That doesn't make any sense to me. I could see running the two on seperate gravity feeds and see which one pulls out the most stuff, but that is still subjected to variations in tuning and other variables. Running them inline would not give comparable results IMO becuase one would have first crack at the gunk.

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8376345#post8376345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JC VT
Roland, we've already discussed how wet foam is better than dry "nasty" foam.





No one's danced around this. I've laid out a pretty clear argument that wet skimmate and high turnover is the best skimming for a clean reef tank. So has NoSchwag and others.

dude, talk about cut and paste. wet and dry had nothing to do with my statement. we all agree about wet and dry. you just danced around it again:dance:

"EXCEPT for the FACT that when you run both recirc and single pass (of any skimmer) AT the same time on the same tank. the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.
You have to be able to explain this to support your argument. The high flow crowd keeps dancing around it."

 

[JC VT]

The nastier stuff is more concentrated, hence drier than true wet skimming. Take a look at NoSchwag's skimmate.

"EXCEPT for the FACT that when you run both recirc and single pass (of any skimmer) AT the same time on the same tank. the recirc always pulls out more and nastier smellier stuff.

You have to be able to explain this to support your argument. The high flow crowd keeps dancing around it."

No, we do not have to explain this at all. Recirc and high turnover are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Roland Jacques]

No, we do not have to explain this at all. Recirc and high turnover are not mutually exclusive. :dance:

yes they absoluty are, that is the point.

2 identical skimmers
1 recirc the though put is 500 gallon per hour.
1 non recirc though put is 1000 gallons per hour = higher flow

why does the recirc pull out more and nastier stuff???

 

[JC VT]

Roland, I run a Turboflotor on a 20L. I have about 7x my tank volume going through it. It is not mutually exclusive. Not one bit.

Manderx runs a massive recirc deltec skimmer on his 135 gallon. Almost entire overflow water goes through the skimmer. Where is it mutually exclusive?

2 identical skimmers
1 recirc the though put is 500 gallon per hour.
1 non recirc though put is 1000 gallons per hour

I'd like for you to show me exactly where I was comparing two identical skimmers. Bold and quotations would be nice.

I'm comparing two methodologies. Not two skimmers.

 

[sherm71tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8376252#post8376252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
90 scfh 54 - 60 watts. not quiet 100 scfh
http://www.it-kontaktmanagement.de/bm_action.swf

I'm not sure what I am suppose to make of the video. I don't see anything there pertaining to watts or SCFH air.

 

[Roland Jacques]

The man who can most easily test this for us is right here.

jnarowe has a airpump driven skimmer. he can run it at any through flow he wants.

jnarowe,
1. what flow rate do you run?
2. what happens to your skimmate production if you run 9times
3. your tank vollume through your skimmer?
4. whats your ideal setting?

 

[JC VT]

The man who can most easily test this for us is right here.

Your questions, and subsequent answers, have nothing to do with methodology, Roland. You're talking about varying settings on an individual skimmer.

I'm talking about methodologies. Beckett is easier and cheaper for what NoSchwag and I advocate; high turnover and wet skimming. Especially for a 250 gallon SPS tank that Al wants to set up.

You'd need a heck of a recirc to accomplish the same.