Beckett vs. Needlewheel skimmers

[JC VT]

By matching my return pump to my skimmer pump, I skim my tank 9X's (give or take) pr. hour. This is something I couldn't do with a needlewheel or with a recirculating skimmer.

I think many times the forest is lost in the trees when people are talking about how "efficient" a skimmer is. I would rather have my system be effective rather than having all these little "stubborn" molecules scrubbed out of the skimmer before the water exits.

Then again, "stubborn" molecules are something of a mystery. They're kind of some hoo doo, scary, unknown entity that must be skimmed out by a recirc with high contact time. FWIW, I would imagine wet skimming (with either type skimmer) would get larger solids/detritus out before it had a chance to break down and release "stubbon" molecules. Just like getting solid waste out prevents nitrates/phosphate build up by removing the source.

 

[crab0000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371258#post8371258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
Another thing I couldn't do with my needlewheel is leave my house for more than a day without worrying if my collection cup would be full. The becket is VERY stable once running 100%. With my NW any little change in the tank would cause the skimmer to overflow, NOT TRUE WITH THE BECKET.

This is completely and totally opposite from my experience with the two.

 

[alwest45]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8370682#post8370682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques

I think AL wins, in his own example he disproves us. It’s kind of like this. You are the bubble and AL is the stubborn waste (strictly metaphorically )

Hey! I'm listening over here!

 

[Pyrrhus]

Ok, I'm gonna try this again.

If a given NW recirc pump pulls (just numbers- no meaning) 100 units of air and 200 units of water during normal operation, restricting the air input by 50 units will increase the water flow by 50 units. This cause the bubbles to spend more time in the reaction chamber because they are being dragged down by the intake of the recirc pump leading to a longer bubble dwell time and a thicker nog.

Many users of NW recirc skimmers have observed this. With no restrictions on the air intake the RPS-2000 at work has about 2/3's of the reaction chamber filled with bubbles. When the air is restricted the bubble cloud drops to fill about 4/5's of the reaction chamber. There is no additional air being added, just the entrainment from the recirc pump.

 

[Covey]

Since this thread has had the two options explained at length i willl just include my experience.

Coralife 125 -> MRC MR-1 on PR rated pan world-> Reef Octo RPS-3000.

Each was an improvement on the last but I will probably never run a beckett again. Even being a big fan of MRC service and build quaility. The Reef Octo pulls 3X what the MRC did the RO using half the electricity, with far less noise. Also I noticed it was interesting that I skim wet, the beckett skims nearly clear skim with a bunch of particulate. Same wet setting on the big NW got me the same particulate but also got me farely brown liquid.

Independant of how the air bubble are being formed the Reef Octo style skimmers(RO, ASM, ER, H&S, Deltec...) are taking far better care of the bubble and the water.

 

[sherm71tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8372102#post8372102 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pyrrhus
Ok, I'm gonna try this again.

If a given NW recirc pump pulls (just numbers- no meaning) 100 units of air and 200 units of water during normal operation, restricting the air input by 50 units will increase the water flow by 50 units. This cause the bubbles to spend more time in the reaction chamber because they are being dragged down by the intake of the recirc pump leading to a longer bubble dwell time and a thicker nog.

Many users of NW recirc skimmers have observed this. With no restrictions on the air intake the RPS-2000 at work has about 2/3's of the reaction chamber filled with bubbles. When the air is restricted the bubble cloud drops to fill about 4/5's of the reaction chamber. There is no additional air being added, just the entrainment from the recirc pump.

This is true. However it is not just NW recircs. Any recirc can do this and my recirc beckett doesn't sacrifice the amount of air it is injecting to accomplish the task.

 

[HippieSmell]

One thing about the becketts that doesn't get mentioned often is the crud that collects on the inside of the riser tube. Even if I skim relatively wet, it still collects pretty fast. Even though the collection cup is tea colored, if I were to take all the crud in the riser and mix it in with the tea skimmate, I promise it will look like it came from a NW.

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371959#post8371959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alwest45
Hey! I'm listening over here!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8373061#post8373061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
One thing about the becketts that doesn't get mentioned often is the crud that collects on the inside of the riser tube. Even if I skim relatively wet, it still collects pretty fast. Even though the collection cup is tea colored, if I were to take all the crud in the riser and mix it in with the tea skimmate, I promise it will look like it came from a NW.

so your calling that a good thing???:rolleye1:

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371957#post8371957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crab0000
This is completely and totally opposite from my experience with the two.

I second this. they even make anti over flow accessories primarily for becketts and DD for that reason.

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371258#post8371258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag

By matching my return pump to my skimmer pump, I skim my tank 9X's (give or take) pr. hour. This is something I couldn't do with a needlewheel or with a recirculating skimmer.

thats very ture. Maybe, thats why, recirc's work better, Beckett's and NW's.

 

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8372102#post8372102 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pyrrhus
Ok, I'm gonna try this again.

If a given NW recirc pump pulls (just numbers- no meaning) 100 units of air and 200 units of water during normal operation, restricting the air input by 50 units will increase the water flow by 50 units. This cause the bubbles to spend more time in the reaction chamber because they are being dragged down by the intake of the recirc pump leading to a longer bubble dwell time and a thicker nog.

Many users of NW recirc skimmers have observed this. With no restrictions on the air intake the RPS-2000 at work has about 2/3's of the reaction chamber filled with bubbles. When the air is restricted the bubble cloud drops to fill about 4/5's of the reaction chamber. There is no additional air being added, just the entrainment from the recirc pump.

OMGoodness

1. you can accurately measure "air in suspension" by measuring the rise of the water column with no flow though being processed (a closed loop). this measurement will call air to water ratio.
in a 10" water column when you turn on the air it rises 1" that is a 10% air/water ratio. if you restrict your air water does increase like as you saw. And your bubbles will also go down further in the skimmer like you saw. What you did not see is your air /water ratio go down also. you can actually test this yourself and see. your air column will drop, this I have tested many times even in a controlled tank and gallons of test skimmate. one of the photos is still in my gallery.

All your doing is making more water cutting air back (Bad) & making more turbulance (also Bad)

2. if your octopus skimmer is stock you can improve your skimmate by simple adding your air silencer to the air hose (depending on your venturi) the reason this happen is restriction of the air causes smaller bubbles. I think this is due to it causing a more uniform air delivery (minimizing air surges that can be seen with flowmeters)

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8373636#post8373636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
so your calling that a good thing???:rolleye1:

Good for maintenance, no. Good that I'm removing what looks and smells like baby crap from the system, you bet.

Oops, I forgot the obligatory rolleyes :rolleye1: . Much better.

 

[crab0000]

My impression was all that crap cuts down on efficiency though, so unless you constantly keep it clean it won't be working optimally. Could be wrong though.

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371795#post8371795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JC VT
FWIW, I would imagine wet skimming (with either type skimmer) would get larger solids/detritus out before it had a chance to break down and release "stubbon" molecules. Just like getting solid waste out prevents nitrates/phosphate build up by removing the source.

Exactly, and wet skimming is what, IMO, the becket does best. The needlewheel had a tendency of overflowing when I ran the water that high.

On top of that the weak needlewheel pump didn't create a solid MASS of upward moving bubbles like the pressure rated pump of the becket.

Here is a great discussion we had about wet vs. dry:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=801833

 

[sherm71tank]

So, I wanted to get a true measurement of the SCFH on the beckett and took out the 1/4" adapter, wrapped some tape around the 3/8" hose and threaded that into the flow meter. I'll let the pic speak for itself. GO BECKETT!!!!

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8372917#post8372917 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Covey
the same particulate but also got me farely brown liquid.

That farely brown liquid is dissolved waste that your skimmer failed to get the first time around.

My skimmate is green with phyto.

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8373751#post8373751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
thats very ture. Maybe, thats why, recirc's work better, Beckett's and NW's.

Think about it, which method is more effective at getting particles BEFORE they break down.. ...Recirculating the same water over and over again OR skimming a lot of different water.

My money is on getting as much particle filled water thru the skimmer as possible, as quick as possible ala becket..

The reason why recirc skimmers SEEM to work better, is because it's alowing crap to break down in the tank while it skims the same water over and over again. Think of it like fighting an uphill battle. Ask people with slow flow thru sump how good their skimmers work. There is a whole 123123908 page thread of people saying how much better their skimmers work.

The name of the game, IMO, is cleaning as much water as possible, as quick as possible.

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8373675#post8373675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques
I second this. they even make anti over flow accessories primarily for becketts and DD for that reason.

Actually it's just a "perk" so to speak. You can do the same thing to a NW if it's air tight.

 

[NoSchwag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8371957#post8371957 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crab0000
This is completely and totally opposite from my experience with the two.

I'm not gonna lie, it actually took me a long time to find the sweet "area" of the becket. But now that I know how to use my equipment, I can dial it in quick.

I set 2 other people up with beckets around here and they're both having the success with it that I am.